Suggesting a new "Battles" page for the main site

[Yogi]

Did you miss the fact that this was a trap?

What was? I suppose that letting the Jedi land and then get slaughtered would be a trap. However, why would Dooku let the Jedi be rescued when it would have been far better for him if they all had bit the dust. Even if Dooku planed to have the Jedi rescued and the fleet moved in, none of the other leaders there (the Trade Federation, the Genocians etc.) got any sort of warning whatsoever until the army was knocking on their doorstep.

[Ender]

Dooku is a Sith. He wants the Republic to invade and the war to start. Kill 200 Jedi in the arena, or kill 10,000 in the course of the war, easy choice.

As for the other leaders, I would assume Dooku had given orders that the subordinates were not to disturb them during the proceedings.

[Yogi]

Dooku is a Sith. He wants the Republic to invade and the war to start. Kill 200 Jedi in the arena, or kill 10,000 in the course of the war, easy choice.

And if 200 Jedi are slaughtered by the Seperatists, would that make it MORE likely or LESS likely that the Republic would decide to go to war? The Big Picture was "Seperatists stir up shit storm, Republic uses army to stop them." It would have been impratical, and unecessary to control every little detail. Dooku couldn't have predicted that Jedi would find out about Genosis before they launched a major attack, or that Jedi would come to save them, or thar re-enforcements would arrive j-u-s-t in the nick of time. This isn't detracting his plan, in the big picture things all even out and whether 200 Jedi die or not that day is insignificant. However, to think that Dooku planned everything out to the timing of his speach is absurd. There are simply too many factors.

As for the other leaders, I would assume Dooku had given orders that the subordinates were not to disturb them during the proceedings.

That might be true. However, if there was a huge-ass army landing on your doorstep, any competent subordinate would definetly disobey orders and tell their leaders. If every there was "extenuating circumstances" this would be it. If President Bush gave strict orders that he was not to be disturbed, then Iraq shock troopers suddenly began pouring out of the woods surrounding Washington DC, you bet that someone is gonig to disturb him.

[Yogi]

One question though.

Will the Genocians, or the Federation playing as the Genocians, have Dooku (or his equivalent) deliberatly trying to sabotoge their plans, while acting as their trusted advisor?

[Typhonis 1]

What if a team of Jedi disabled the sensor sytem, so there ESCAPE would be easier?

[Ted C]

Several points that I would like to bring up.

First, the Federation has pattern enhancers, which are things that increase the ability to transport an object. These can conveivably be used to beam the rescue force out plus prisoners if they manege to get in.

True, but the Federation has to get the pattern enhancers to the surface and set them up before they can do any good.

Second, starships have shown the ability to support ground troops in combat.

An example would be helpful.

I know for some reason the Acclimators didn't but that doesn't mean that the ST ships won't.

If it's not typical of Federation military tactics, then we can't expect them to do it.

Third, the Genosis early warning system is horrid. A friggin fleet plus army moves in their space, and the leaders are unaware of it until the troop transports are literally decending from above in front of their noses.

Count Dooku was running the operation, and he wanted to get a civil war started. Besides, this is largely irrelevant to the original question. Republic/Federation ships getting troops to the surface is pretty much a scenario pre-requisite. Geonosis can have an absolutely despicable early warning system if it makes you feel better.

Fourth, judging by how easy the Republic Fleet and Obi-wan got in, there is no planetary shield. That means the Federation can burn off the atmosphere (once everyone's safe inside the ship, of course).

There is not way to know for sure whether Geonosis has a planetary shield, although it does seem unlikely. It is something of a backwater planet, and the facilities were supposed to be secret, so they may have never installed such a system there.

[Durandal]

Several points that I would like to bring up.

First, the Federation has pattern enhancers, which are things that increase the ability to transport an object. These can conveivably be used to beam the rescue force out plus prisoners if they manege to get in.

If they can be set up on the surface without being destroyed by the massive amounts of artillery fire which they can't protect against ... yeah, huge chance of that happening.

Second, starships have shown the ability to support ground troops in combat.

When? And, no, the Enterprise's saucer section crashing into a planet and uprooting a kilometer or two of vegetation doesn't count as "ground support."

I know for some reason the Acclimators didn't but that doesn't mean that the ST ships won't.

Because the Acclamators' weapons would have devasted everything in the area. Not exactly useful to use your 200 gigaton batteries to completely destroy everything when you've got hostages and troops on the surface, is it?

Third, the Genosis early warning system is horrid. A friggin fleet plus army moves in their space, and the leaders are unaware of it until the troop transports are literally decending from above in front of their noses.

That would be because Count Dooku wanted to start a war. Next.

Fourth, judging by how easy the Republic Fleet and Obi-wan got in, there is no planetary shield. That means the Federation can burn off the atmosphere (once everyone's safe inside the ship, of course).

Federation ships would be handily destroyed by, er ... Federation ships. There's utterly no conceivable way the Federation can take this one. They'll be slaughtered on the ground and space either way.

[Darth Yoshi]

Enough with the advertising for your fanfic, Stravo. In the republic's place, the Feds don't stand a chance. Remember, hyperdrive>warp.

Exactly how is FTL engine performance supposed to affect the outcome of this battle?

Well, the Feds have to get to Geonosis before the Jedi are executed. With warp, they'll show some time after the destructin of the 2nd Death Star. First, if they're lucky.

[Illuminatus Primus]

Third, the Genosis early warning system is horrid. A friggin fleet plus army moves in their space, and the leaders are unaware of it until the troop transports are literally decending from above in front of their noses.

Jedi who arrived early to ambush the arena knocked out planetary artillery and early-warning sensor stations.

The Grand Army and the Jedi forces which arrived the main wave slipped in undetected.

Fourth, judging by how easy the Republic Fleet and Obi-wan got in, there is no planetary shield.

I'm not sure if they have a planetary shield.

[mauldooku]

Question: Did The Seperatists know about Obi-Wan's arrival before he came? Thye could have dropped the shield on purpose...

Just a thought

[Ted C]

Question: Did The Seperatists know about Obi-Wan's arrival before he came? Thye could have dropped the shield on purpose...

Just a thought

Probably not, but there are reasons not to keep a planetary shield running constantly even if you've got one. They could easily have a high energy cost, and they prevent transport ships from being able to deliver supplies or pick up finished products. There might be environmental effects from a constantly-running shield, but the condition of Endor after months or years of constant shielding during the Death Star II's construction makes that seem unlikely.

[Yogi]

Sorry for the delay in reply. Programming assignments are a bitch. Since I still have lots of work to do, this will be very short and sweet.

Starships supposrting ground troops: A Piece of the Action (TOS), The 37's (VOY)

Dooku letting the Republic in: It really doesn't matter in his grand plan, so why bother to do that and arouse suspicion among the other leaders (They'll wonder why didn't they get a warning and start looking for traitors.)

Jedi sabotoging sensors: Haven't heard this before. Where was it mensioned?

Why Early Warning System matters: Federation ship stuns the arena from orbit, clearing the way for shuttlecraft to land, but also stunning the leaders that can be used as hostages.

That's all. Now, off to more fun with window to viewport mapping!

[Sea Skimmer]

Why Early Warning System matters: Federation ship stuns the arena from orbit, clearing the way for shuttlecraft to land, but also stunning the leaders that can be used as hostages.

That's all. Now, off to more fun with window to viewport mapping!

They stun driods how?

[Patrick Ogaard]

Why Early Warning System matters: Federation ship stuns the arena from orbit, clearing the way for shuttlecraft to land, but also stunning the leaders that can be used as hostages.

That's all. Now, off to more fun with window to viewport mapping!

They stun driods how?

A phaser bank stun blast sufficient to "stun" a droid would probably spray flash-fried organic brain matter about the arena.

Disregarding that, though, blanketing the arena with phaser banks set on stun would likely take down the Geonosian warriors that gave the Jedi strike force quite a bit of trouble. Taking out the Separatist leaders might also prevent, or at least delay, the deployment of the droid hordes from the bowels of the Geonosian installation to swarm the arena.

Of course, if the Geonosians had any defensive weaponry, or if the grounded ships could fire any of their light weapons at targets in orbit, Geonosis would quickliy acquire a short-lived duranium and tritanium ring system in standard orbit.

[Yogi]

They stun driods how?

They don't stun droids, they stun the people who need to push the ON button. At the very least, they stun all the Genocian warriors, the leaders of the Seperatists, and Jango Fett.

[Eframepilot]

They could stun everyone and beam the survivors away, plus the Separatist leaders straight to the brig. If Dooku is too powerful to hold, keep him sedated until they get back to Coruscant. (If he dies of old age first, all the better!)

[Durandal]

They could stun everyone and beam the survivors away, plus the Separatist leaders straight to the brig. If Dooku is too powerful to hold, keep him sedated until they get back to Coruscant. (If he dies of old age first, all the better!)

Um ... yeah, that is if one side doesn't use knowledge of the other's capabilities to do something like, oh, I dunno, jam the transporters. I see you haven't gotten any smarter since your tenure on ASVS ended.

[T-1000]

It just occurred to me that Mike does not yet have a "Battle of Geonosis" page for the "Battles" section of SD.net. I think it's about time for one.

Mike will, of course, ultimately write such a page as he sees fit, but we can do some of the preliminary work, like listing assets, discussing the original history and outcome, and suggesting appropriate Federation forces to replace either the Republic or the Separatists.

Republic Forces
- Several Acclamator-class troopships. These did not lend any fire support (that we saw), they just landed troops.
- Up to 200,000 clone soldiers.
- An unspecified number of LAAT gunships, which can transport troops or drop AT-TEs.
- An unspecified number of SPHA-T mobile weapon platforms.
- A handful of Jedi Knights.

Republic Objective
- Rescue prisoners held by the Separatists
- Neutralize the Separatist army and capture Separatist leaders (note, Palpatine might have had something else in mind, but the army would not have known of his personal ambitions)

Separatist Forces
- Several TradeFed core ships. These did nothing but try to escape.
- An unspecified number of battle droids:
-- "Standard" TradeFed battle droids
-- TradeFed "Super" battle droids
-- Inter-Galactic Banking Clan Hailfire droids
-- Commerce Guild Homing spider droids
-- Commerce Guild Dwarf spider droids
-- Corporate Alliance tank droids (?)
- One "Bad Ass Sith Lord"
- A few unarmed "personal" starships

Separatist Objectives
- Evacuate Separatist leaders and protect droid manufacturing facilities

As I'm sure we all recall, the Clones successfully rescued the prisoners (including some Jedi who had already made an unsuccessful attempt) and pretty much mopped the field with the droids and secured the droid factory, but all of the important Separatist leaders (Count Dooku and the TradeFed Viceroy, for example) escaped.

Any recommendations for Federation forces? Typical rules: no unique characters or pieces of equipment for the visiting team; visitors are in an idealized condition.

You realize of course that since the Federation has no real ground forces to speak of, and will therefore be helpless against the heavy artillery of both armies in the battle, that the Federation will be hopelessly slaughtered.

That being said, it makes no sense to have an entire page in which the end conclusion is the same: Feds are without ground artillery and are therefore mercilessly slaughtered.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Wow T-1000, your still alive. So where have you been for the last three months? Did you get lost in a cave or something? I probably don't know how right I am.

[Darth Negation]

With a bad early warning system, by stunning the leaders of the Separatists, transporter jamming would not be activated, and so the Jedi (whoops, what's left of the Federation commandos ) could be beamed out, as well as the Separatist leaders.

[Darth Yoshi]

With a bad early warning system, by stunning the leaders of the Separatists, transporter jamming would not be activated, and so the Jedi (whoops, what's left of the Federation commandos ) could be beamed out, as well as the Separatist leaders.

That's assuming any would survive the sonic cannons and huge beasts.

[Darth Negation]

They might get the plans to the Death star, and the Leaders of the Separatist movements at least. With them, they should be able to force the Nemodians to shut the droids down, ending the battle with droids falling apart.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

With a bad early warning system, by stunning the leaders of the Separatists, transporter jamming would not be activated, and so the Jedi (whoops, what's left of the Federation commandos ) could be beamed out, as well as the Separatist leaders.

Bad early warning system when things are exiting HYPERSPACE. They would see the Feds coming for a while at warp.

Aside, beaming a Sith Lord onto a Fed ship (or ANY ship, for that matter) is a bad idea. Beaming Jango Fett is a pretty bad idea too.

[Darth Garden Gnome]

Heh, Dooku might even be able to use Jedi Mind Tricks to influence his captures to allow him to escape. And maybe detonate a warp core or two.

Also, should the Seperatist leaders be beamed aboard a Fed ship, then could simply be held stationary with a tractor beam, while the Reps prepare a boarding party. Assuming, of course, Dooku and Co. managed not to be taken hostage by the Feds.

[Darth Negation]

Even if Dooku escapes (unlikely after being hit by a x-bank stun beam) if the Feds have the leaders, the Nemodians would give the disarm codes ala Phantom menace, which I believe does extend to ships.

Err... aren't Dooku and Co. actually the Separatist leaders? The Feds just need the Nemodians.