Assange granted asylum

[Vympel]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19281492

Earlier, the UK Foreign Office warned it could lift the embassy's diplomatic status to fulfil a "legal obligation" to extradite the 41-year-old by using the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987.

Well, if that was a ploy to get Ecuador to relent, it sure backfired.

[Grumman]

Earlier, the UK Foreign Office warned it could lift the embassy's diplomatic status to fulfil a "legal obligation" to extradite the 41-year-old by using the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987.

Gee, that's not suspicious at all.

[Vympel]

Earlier, the UK Foreign Office warned it could lift the embassy's diplomatic status to fulfil a "legal obligation" to extradite the 41-year-old by using the Diplomatic and Consular Premises Act 1987.

Gee, that's not suspicious at all.

Clearly, causing a diplomatic incident and calling the sanctity of your own embassies overseas into question over supposedly being just desperate to send Assange to Sweden for questioning over sexual assault allegations makes perfect sense, and the fact that he just happens to be the founder of Wikileaks - totally besides the point!

[Alkaloid]

I was seeing reports earlier today that the police were flat out raiding the embassy, I take it in light of this that they were exaggerations of the threat to review the embassies diplomatic status?

[Col. Crackpot]

So the moral of the story is... you don't have to stand trial for sex crimes if you are a crusader against the crimes of the powerful?

[Vympel]

So the moral of the story is... you don't have to stand trial for sex crimes

There's no "trial for sex crimes". He's wanted for questioning. No charges have been laid.

In any event, there's no "moral". Assange is entitled to seek political asylum if he fears extradition to the USA, which are certainly justified fears given the abysmal state of America's justice system WRT foreign nationals accused of harming "national security" and other factors (like the abuse of Bradley Manning being aimed at getting him to implicate Assange and the grand jury instituted to produce an indictment (which may have already been issued according to leaked emails, but who knows whether they're accurate). Ecuador apparently agrees.

[Tribun]

I think it more shows how desperate the UK is to kiss the ass of the USA. Regardless what they do now, it will cause a huge diplomatic affront.

[Knife]

LOL, big bad America is the reason he has to get political asylum in Ecuador from the UK because the UK wants to extradite him to Sweden. It's a fucking Bond plot. Ridiculous and over reaching.

[Mr Bean]

So the moral of the story is... you don't have to stand trial for sex crimes if you are a crusader against the crimes of the powerful?

No the moral of the story is, the charges are now more obviously bullshit if Britain is literally willing to commit an act of war in order to put Assange on a plane. Col.Crackpot if you were more into Geo-politicis you'd know that violating the sanctity of an embassy is way up there under "shit you don't do". In fact it would be more diplomatically appropriate to tell them they had twenty four hours to shut down their embassy and get out of the country than it would be to send cops into an Embassy without the host governments permission. Raiding an embassy is a big fucking deal.

[Knife]

So the moral of the story is... you don't have to stand trial for sex crimes if you are a crusader against the crimes of the powerful?

No the moral of the story is, the charges are now more obviously bullshit if Britain is literally willing to commit an act of war in order to put Assange on a plane. Col.Crackpot if you were more into Geo-politicis you'd know that violating the sanctity of an embassy is way up there under "shit you don't do". In fact it would be more diplomatically appropriate to tell them they had twenty four hours to shut down their embassy and get out of the country than it would be to send cops into an Embassy without the host governments permission. Raiding an embassy is a big fucking deal.

Oh please, it's obvious saber rattling, another hall mark of global politics.

[Grumman]

So the moral of the story is... you don't have to stand trial for sex crimes if you are a crusader against the crimes of the powerful?

Even if he committed the crime of which he is accused, there is no way that the prosecution could legitimately meet the burden of proof required in any civilised society to find him guilty, because he is accused of a crime for which the circumstantial evidence is in Assange's favour and the only other possible evidence is their word against his. For the Swedish and British authorities to pursue this with such vigour means that either they are both packs of morons, or they are not acting in good faith.

[Alkaloid]

Assange almost certainly should be questioned, maybe go to trial. If he raped anyone I have no idea, he comes across as a pretty self important and entitled wanker in a lot of the media, although again how accurate that is I have no idea because almost everyone has an axe to grind, but I wouldn't be blown away if it turned out he had done it. On the other hand the timing of the claims is highly suspicious as well, and Assange has good reason to be one of the most paranoid motherfuckers on the planet right now. And its all well and good to say he can't be extradited to the US without Britains say so, but I doubt he'll get a fair trial in the US and see no reason to believe that means he would be extradited to the US fairly either.

[Col. Crackpot]

So the moral of the story is... you don't have to stand trial for sex crimes if you are a crusader against the crimes of the powerful?

No the moral of the story is, the charges are now more obviously bullshit if Britain is literally willing to commit an act of war in order to put Assange on a plane. Col.Crackpot if you were more into Geo-politicis you'd know that violating the sanctity of an embassy is way up there under "shit you don't do". In fact it would be more diplomatically appropriate to tell them they had twenty four hours to shut down their embassy and get out of the country than it would be to send cops into an Embassy without the host governments permission. Raiding an embassy is a big fucking deal.

Oh please, it's obvious saber rattling, another hall mark of global politics.

That. The embassy created this dilemma by housing someone wanted for questioning in asex crime case. But that is not what i am taking issue with. People are lining up to suck this guy's cock because of the good he did and are clearly ignoring the fact that he is at the very least an asshole and may be a sex criminal. But we'll never know because the sacred cow will never face trial as long as supposed intellectuals labor under the delusion that the good Julian Assange outweighs the bad Julian assange.

[Mr Bean]

That. The embassy created this dilemma by housing someone wanted for questioning in asex crime case. But that is not what i am taking issue with. People are lining up to suck this guy's cock because of the good he did and are clearly ignoring the fact that he is at the very least an asshole and may be a sex criminal. But we'll never know because the sacred cow will never face trial as long as supposed intellectuals labor under the delusion that the good Julian Assange outweighs the bad Julian assange.

Our embassy's have done the same thing before, UK's embassy's have done the same thing before. That's what embassy's do, they are set up so that you can do exactly what Ecuador is doing.

*Edit
By do the same thing I mean house a "known criminal" In every other case they just sit outside and negotiate the person out not threaten to raid the embassy.

[Knife]

That. The embassy created this dilemma by housing someone wanted for questioning in asex crime case. But that is not what i am taking issue with. People are lining up to suck this guy's cock because of the good he did and are clearly ignoring the fact that he is at the very least an asshole and may be a sex criminal. But we'll never know because the sacred cow will never face trial as long as supposed intellectuals labor under the delusion that the good Julian Assange outweighs the bad Julian assange.

Our embassy's have done the same thing before, UK's embassy's have done the same thing before. That's what embassy's do, they are set up so that you can do exactly what Ecuador is doing.

*Edit
By do the same thing I mean house a "known criminal" In every other case they just sit outside and negotiate the person out not threaten to raid the embassy.

Poke a countries nose into others problems? Isn't that what makes the USA the big bad wolf in this?

[Aaron MkII]

LOL, big bad America is the reason he has to get political asylum in Ecuador from the UK because the UK wants to extradite him to Sweden. It's a fucking Bond plot. Ridiculous and over reaching.

The entire thing has become a joke, whether he raped those woman or not, or if he does get sent to the states. Anything resembling a fair trial is impossible at this point, for either.

But perhaps he should have chosen France, Germany, Russia or China's embassies instead of an insignificant third world countries. I suspect the UK would have toned down their illegal bullshit.

[Col. Crackpot]

That. The embassy created this dilemma by housing someone wanted for questioning in asex crime case. But that is not what i am taking issue with. People are lining up to suck this guy's cock because of the good he did and are clearly ignoring the fact that he is at the very least an asshole and may be a sex criminal. But we'll never know because the sacred cow will never face trial as long as supposed intellectuals labor under the delusion that the good Julian Assange outweighs the bad Julian assange.

Our embassy's have done the same thing before, UK's embassy's have done the same thing before. That's what embassy's do, they are set up so that you can do exactly what Ecuador is doing.

*Edit
By do the same thing I mean house a "known criminal" In every other case they just sit outside and negotiate the person out not threaten to raid the embassy.

They are not going to raid the embassy. If that happens feel free to call me an asshole.

[Knife]

LOL, big bad America is the reason he has to get political asylum in Ecuador from the UK because the UK wants to extradite him to Sweden. It's a fucking Bond plot. Ridiculous and over reaching.

The entire thing has become a joke, whether he raped those woman or not, or if he does get sent to the states. Anything resembling a fair trial is impossible at this point, for either.

But perhaps he should have chosen France, Germany, Russia or China's embassies instead of an insignificant third world countries. I suspect the UK would have toned down their illegal bullshit.

I would agree with you. However, isn't that up to Sweden to decide? All this teeth gnashing about the US sticking it's fingers into other countries pie, and now everyone wants to tell Sweden and the UK how to eat their pie. Sweden wants the guy for a trial, UK said OK, half the world goes bonkers because the USA may send it's ninjas to get him. How is that not a touch of hypocrisy. At what point do we grow up and say, even though we have political thoughts ABC, it's not really our decision but we sure hope Sweden is grown up enough to see ABC and do the right thing.

[Alkaloid]

But that is not what i am taking issue with. People are lining up to suck this guy's cock because of the good he did and are clearly ignoring the fact that he is at the very least an asshole and may be a sex criminal. But we'll never know because the sacred cow will never face trial as long as supposed intellectuals labor under the delusion that the good Julian Assange outweighs the bad Julian assange.

OK, yeah, but do you think his fears are unfounded or unreasonable? Do you think if he ended up in the US he would get a fair trial given the legal contortions being gone through to find something to charge him with, or members of the Government stating that he is a criminal and should be executed before he has had a trial or even been charged?

But perhaps he should have chosen France, Germany, Russia or China's embassies instead of an insignificant third world countries. I suspect the UK would have toned down their illegal bullshit.

He chose Ecuador because they have already expelled the US ambassador over cable released by wikileaks so he had reason to believe they would back him over the US if it came to it. The rest of the west may not be a better choice than the UK and China isn't known for making those standing up in the face of government secrecy into heroes.

[Tribun]

Thing is, the whole case in Swenden is so obviously bogus, it's one of the worst excuses ever for getting his hands on him so that they could give him to the US. The excuse "it's just for questioning" make the whole efford they put into it even more ridiculous. Why can't both countries just admit they want to collect points in Washington D.C. by doing their bidding?

[Knife]

OK, yeah, but do you think his fears are unfounded or unreasonable? Do you think if he ended up in the US he would get a fair trial given the legal contortions being gone through to find something to charge him with, or members of the Government stating that he is a criminal and should be executed before he has had a trial or even been charged?

Yes his fears are unfounded. Even if this whole farce was some super secret US CIA ultra ninja plot, the media would explode, the trial would make the OJ Simpson trial look like an episode of Judge Judy, and people would lose their awesome desk jobs in Washington over it. Are there some people in that funny shaped building in Virginia who probably wake up with a hard on after dreaming of getting this guy? Yeah. But to think this is some Bond plot to get they guy in super secret prison to slice his nuts with a toothpick for revenge is silly. There is nothing but conspiracy theory bullshit to indicate such a thing.

[Alkaloid]

How is that not a touch of hypocrisy. At what point do we grow up and say, even though we have political thoughts ABC, it's not really our decision but we sure hope Sweden is grown up enough to see ABC and do the right thing.

At the point where people don't have to be concerned that the countries which are supposed to bastions of freedom and rule of lore can no longer be counted on not to turn anyone over for any sort of trial, fair, unfair or farce the instant it becomes politically expedient. I find that concerning and as a person living in a world that contains countries, I think it may just be my business.

[Knife]

How is that not a touch of hypocrisy. At what point do we grow up and say, even though we have political thoughts ABC, it's not really our decision but we sure hope Sweden is grown up enough to see ABC and do the right thing.

At the point where people don't have to be concerned that the countries which are supposed to bastions of freedom and rule of lore can no longer be counted on not to turn anyone over for any sort of trial, fair, unfair or farce the instant it becomes politically expedient. I find that concerning and as a person living in a world that contains countries, I think it may just be my business.

You and others keep asserting that with zero evidence of the sort. You assume that the UK and Sweden are going through all this just to turn the guy over to the US. Ridiculous. Fear mongering. Conspiracy Bull Shit.

[Alkaloid]

Thing is, the whole case in Swenden is so obviously bogus, it's one of the worst excuses ever for getting his hands on him so that they could give him to the US. The excuse "it's just for questioning" make the whole efford they put into it even more ridiculous. Why can't both countries just admit they want to collect points in Washington D.C. by doing their bidding?

Half the problem is it isn't. Assange absolutely should be questioned over the allegations.

Even if this whole farce was some super secret US CIA ultra ninja plot, the media would explode, the trial would make the OJ Simpson trial look like an episode of Judge Judy, and people would lose their awesome desk jobs in Washington over it.

The way it the revelation that the US was torturing information from often innocent people in extra judicial prisons was a huge deal and fundamentally altered the way the US government went about its business. People in the know imprisoned, presidents approving it impeached? That sort of thing?

[Col. Crackpot]

The CIA cannot 'dissappear' him at this point. That would be too obvious. And the US media wouldn't tolerate a show trial. Send him to Sweeden because not having consequences to your actions and being above the law because you have the balls to stand up to a superpower is no better than being above the law because you are a superpower.