Family Wants Teacher Fired Over Classroom Bullying

[Flagg]

NBCNews.com

Family wants teacher fired over classroom bullying

Video shows other children dragging boy, stacking chairs on him, putting sock in his mouth

By DREW MIKKELSEN
KING5

updated 8/30/2012 11:17:09 AM ET

A Pierce County family wants a middle school teacher fired after their son was picked on in the teacher's classroom.

The incident happened in February at Gig Harbor's Kopachuck Middle School.

Cell phone video, shot by students, shows the then-13-year-old being dragged around the classroom. It also shows several students stacking chairs on top of the boy, a classmate putting a sock in his mouth and others sitting on him while he is held by his arms and legs. Watch an edited segment of the video on the KING 5 website by clicking here.

"I was shocked. My wife broke down crying. It was tough to see," said Randall Kinney, the boy's father.

All of it happened in front of a teacher, who at times participated in the incident.

"I don't think he realizes what he has done," said Karla Kinney, the boy's mother.

Following the incident, the boy, now 14 and attending a private school, told his parents he was thinking about suicide.

"He told me, 'I want to die. I want to kill myself.'" said Randall.

"I was horrified by what I saw," said acting Peninsula School District Superintendent Chuck Cuzzetto.

Cuzzetto said the teacher displayed "inappropriate classroom management," but the district decided against firing the teacher because of his "body of work" over an 18-year teaching career in the district.

"It’s an isolated situation in an 18-year career. That’s horrific, and it deserves some pretty significant action fast. And that’s what we did,” Cuzzetto said.

The teacher, John Rosi, was suspended for 10 days without pay by the district and moved to a different middle school within the district.

The Kinneys not only want the teacher fired, but the incident investigated as a potential crime to see whether the teacher or district did not report the incident properly.

Read Rosi's account of what happened in the letter here. The letter was obtained by the student's parents via a public records request.

There's a picture from the video at the link. Teacher should not only be fired, he should have his license revoked and be charged with several crimes. It's fucking outrageous.

This hits close to home because I was bullied pretty badly by some teachers, though never to this extent. I can tell you that it totally changes your perception of adults as a child and makes you hate going to school. Until I dropped out and got my GED I used to have panic attacks almost every morning on the schoolbus ride there, even long after I left elementary school where most of it happened. In fact I still get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomache when I wake up early in the morning.

[Jub]

I had the same thing in middle school, I was having things thrown at me while I was speak to an adult lunch monitor and she pretended like she didn't see it. Then got mad at me and sent me to the office for calling her an incompitent bitch who couldn't do her job. The worst part is trying to fight back becuase you still get suspended because the administration thinks you must have provoked the attack. Hell, even if you don't fight back you might still get the same because they assume you must have fought back.

Then you get to the issue of what do you actually do to stop the bullies. Even the ones who get caught treat being suspended or even expelled as a vacation. I say we should just call a spade a spade and start charging repeated acts of bullying as the assaults they are and hope that helps.

[Flagg]

I had the same thing in middle school, I was having things thrown at me while I was speak to an adult lunch monitor and she pretended like she didn't see it. Then got mad at me and sent me to the office for calling her an incompitent bitch who couldn't do her job. The worst part is trying to fight back becuase you still get suspended because the administration thinks you must have provoked the attack. Hell, even if you don't fight back you might still get the same because they assume you must have fought back.

Then you get to the issue of what do you actually do to stop the bullies. Even the ones who get caught treat being suspended or even expelled as a vacation. I say we should just call a spade a spade and start charging repeated acts of bullying as the assaults they are and hope that helps.

Yeah, my 2nd grade teacher told me to stop telling her about kids bullying me until my grades got better. In front of the entire classroom. Guess what happened more often?

But by third grade I had said "fuck it" and started fighting back, even though I'd lose as often as win. All it did was get me branded a troublemaker and my cries for help were ignored even more. So by 7th grade I was wanting to kill myself and ended up in a residential psych hospital for 6 months.

[Jub]

Yeah, my 2nd grade teacher told me to stop telling her about kids bullying me until my grades got better. In front of the entire classroom. Guess what happened more often?

But by third grade I had said "fuck it" and started fighting back, even though I'd lose as often as win. All it did was get me branded a troublemaker and my cries for help were ignored even more. So by 7th grade I was wanting to kill myself and ended up in a residential psych hospital for 6 months.

I ended up getting expelled and moving to a new school for the jump from grade 9 to grade 10 (middle to high school in my area) escaping that stigma of being bullied. I was a bully myself for a bit at this new school, but eventually I met some people and things got better for me. Sadly most stories aren't as happy as mine was.

As for this story that's disgusting. There is no way that teacher shouldn't be charged with a crime much less dismissed from his position immediately. Could you imagine assualting somebody at any other job and having your boss shrug and say, "Well it was a first offense so whatever."?

[Simon_Jester]

The (legally accepted) correct response in a normal school is to call security in to break it up. At least, the ones I'm familiar with.

[Eternal_Freedom]

The (legally accepted) correct response in a normal school is to call security in to break it up. At least, the ones I'm familiar with.

Trouble is, in my experience at least, that just makes it worse cos other kids think you'll go tellt he staff about everything. So despite doing what you're suposed to, it makes the situation worse and teachers rarely seem to understand that.

I got bullied right up till year 5 (age ten), when a) I got a new teacher and b) I snapped. Some punk made a comment about me being half blind and I grabbed a chair and smacked him with it. Luckily, the new teacher sat me down in my office, got me to explain and dealt with the bullies. I was a lot happier after that.

As for this teacher, what a bastard. If I'd had a teacher like this when I snapped, I'd have hit him with that chair not the other kids.

[Simon_Jester]

Er, you misunderstood.

I was talking about what the teacher was supposed to do. If there's physical violence going on in your classroom you call security and consequences be damned.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Sickening...absolutely sickening...

I had a bad teacher my 4th and 5th grade years, who seemed to have a grudge against my family for some reason (just as bad with my aunt who is younger than me). But nothing of this scale...this is just messed up on every imaginable level...

[Eternal_Freedom]

Er, you misunderstood.

I was talking about what the teacher was supposed to do. If there's physical violence going on in your classroom you call security and consequences be damned.

Ah, my apologies.

Still, were I in that teacher's position (and I may well be someday, it's the job I want) I woudl feel compelled to restrain the bullies rather than call security. I don;t think I could just sit and watch a child being treated like that. Not having been on the other end of it.

[Zaune]

Er, you misunderstood.

I was talking about what the teacher was supposed to do. If there's physical violence going on in your classroom you call security and consequences be damned.

That supposes the school actually has an on-site private security presence. As far as I know that's not exactly routine, even in the US.

[Skywalker_T-65]

My High School had a couple cops walking around as security. Any younger though and there wasn't...maybe middle school, but certainly not elementary. The best we had was the janitors...

[LadyTevar]

I just want to know what the teacher was thinking, not stopping these kids.

[Skywalker_T-65]

No...I want to know what he was thinking participating in it. And why they didn't send him to jail for it...or at the least revoke his teaching license.

[Terralthra]

I just want to know what the teacher was thinking, not stopping these kids.

Here's what he was thinking. "It was just horseplay." "Boys will be boys."

[Alyrium Denryle]

I had the same thing in middle school, I was having things thrown at me while I was speak to an adult lunch monitor and she pretended like she didn't see it. Then got mad at me and sent me to the office for calling her an incompitent bitch who couldn't do her job. The worst part is trying to fight back becuase you still get suspended because the administration thinks you must have provoked the attack. Hell, even if you don't fight back you might still get the same because they assume you must have fought back.

Then you get to the issue of what do you actually do to stop the bullies. Even the ones who get caught treat being suspended or even expelled as a vacation. I say we should just call a spade a spade and start charging repeated acts of bullying as the assaults they are and hope that helps.

Yeah, my 2nd grade teacher told me to stop telling her about kids bullying me until my grades got better. In front of the entire classroom. Guess what happened more often?

But by third grade I had said "fuck it" and started fighting back, even though I'd lose as often as win. All it did was get me branded a troublemaker and my cries for help were ignored even more. So by 7th grade I was wanting to kill myself and ended up in a residential psych hospital for 6 months.

Christ man. I thought I had it bad. Shit, I want to reach through the internet and give you a hug.

In my case, it was anti-gay bullying and really started up in 6th grade. Perceived sexual orientation and all that. I was already in court-mandated therapy (nasty divorce and child custody cases, including false allegations of child molestation my father made against my brother), so I at least had an outlet and banded together for mutual protection with the other misfits and went to the library or computer labs during down time (open door and sanctuary policies on the part of the teachers and librarians). So, even though the administration failed miserably to protect bullied kids (going so far as to regularly violate our civil rights post-Columbine, without actually addressing the underlying problems) I did not snap (came close, developed nervous ticks like trichotilomania). So I feel for you man.

That said, I dont even understand why firing this teacher is on the table. This teacher actively participated in the assault and battery of a student. There are like 4-6 felonies this teacher has committed, depending on state law. The teacher should be facing 5-10 years of jail time, rather than being protected by tenure.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Which is what I said. Honestly, why this teacher still has a job, and isn't in jail, is beyond me.

And I got off really light...which makes me feel bad reading about people who DIDN'T...

[Justforfun000]

I'm honestly appalled to hear the personal incidents of people here let alone the OP...I wanted to say something individual but I will just say overall that it makes me even more determined to prioritize the fighting against bullying in all forms. We are all bullied in so many ways and unfortunately it's an all too common theme in our relationships with authority figures, parents, spouses, etc.

Right now though the public interest and fire is there for this issue and luckily, It's an excellent catch-all banner for people and it's about bloody time the rally was held for the unspoken majority of people who deal with this all throughout life in so many ways.

I'm so thankful technology is there to catch all of these little things that in the past would never truly become noticed. Our internet community is truly unprecedented in respect to influence around the world and what it can do in regards to support. One classroom, one teacher, one student...all of a sudden gets exposed to millions of people that speak out. I'm so thankful to be here at this time in history. In truth, there has never been such an opportunity for all voices to speak out and be heard until the Youtube era.

[Ahriman238]

Fuck this teacher and everyone involved in protecting him.

The first rule, the first rule, of the classroom, before anything about doing work, being polite, or academic honesty is everyone is safe here. Safe from abuse. Safe from mockery. Safe from harm of every kind. Maybe we can't always protect students in the hall, or the bathroom or the back lot. But in the classroom? Nobody screws with our students.

I've been inspected monthly to make sure nothing like this was going on. And every time a student raises his hand to another I have to fill out two forms (at least we have carbon copies now) and twice as many if I have to touch or restrain a student, and they'll take statements from my class. But I'm sure more procedure and paperwork will be added eventually because of crap like this. SO that's another thing for me to be steamed over, however petty in this light.

Heck, what state is this 'Pierce County' in? I know it's not Mass, and probably not anywhere in New England. Entire schools have been closed for incidents like this, and if it happened here Administration wouldn't hesitate to throw the teacher under the bus and give the family a vast cash settlement to dodge the inevitable lawsuit. Believe me, there would be jail time involved for the teacher.



To paraphrase my grandmother "this fella gives (teachers) a bad name, like drunks give drinking." He is supposed to protect his students, provide discipline and a framework for dealing with society after graduation, and he has done the literal and complete opposite of that. At a time when just about every school in the country is wanking over our "zero-tolerance" bullying policies and how every report of abuse is subject to the most rigorous investigation since Watergate.

I could rant for some time about this, but in the interest of concision I'll stick to my first thought which is: Screw this man. Screw the Principal and vices. Screw the Superintendent, and anyone else in a position to slap this man down hard and shirked the responsibility. I am not a big fan of how easily teachers can be fired or disciplined for minor infractions, but I always figured at the very least it was worth it to keep anal seepage like this out of the profession.

[Skywalker_T-65]

First Bing result is Wisconsin. Though it could be wrong...I'm sure there is more than one Pierce County.

And one of my possible majors (I'm in college right now) is history teacher. I would NEVER let something like this happen in my (potential) future classroom. Just boggles the mind.

[Flagg]

It's in Washington state. Gold Bar, specifically.

[RogueIce]

I just want to know what the teacher was thinking, not stopping these kids.

While there's no excuse for participating in what happened, there's only so much a teacher could do to really stop them. From the teachers I've known (and it seems Simon_Jester's experiences in another state were the same) teachers absolutely could not physically break up a fight or anything else like that. All they could do was, basically, observe and report. They would call it in, and the school resource officer (a cop) or school security (if they're on campus; this probably depends on the district and school) would deal with it; failing that I believe it would be an administrator who could physically stop it (principal, AP, etc).

Zero tolerance isn't just for the kids.

[Ahriman238]

I just want to know what the teacher was thinking, not stopping these kids.

While there's no excuse for participating in what happened, there's only so much a teacher could do to really stop them. From the teachers I've known (and it seems Simon_Jester's experiences in another state were the same) teachers absolutely could not physically break up a fight or anything else like that. All they could do was, basically, observe and report. They would call it in, and the school resource officer (a cop) or school security (if they're on campus; this probably depends on the district and school) would deal with it; failing that I believe it would be an administrator who could physically stop it (principal, AP, etc).

Zero tolerance isn't just for the kids.

A teacher as responsible adult understands proportion.

If something seems off, roughhousing, sharp language, bad vibes or the like, I'll tell the kids to stop. If for some reason they aren't impressed with my personal authority and don't yield by the second time, I kick them out of the room. If they do not leave when instructed, then I involve others (which in my school means a call to the department. We don't have dedicated security staff.) And it may or may not escalate from there. Refusing to leave the room when instructed is at least a detention.

If a fight breaks out in my room, I tell them to stop and physically break it up if need be. Then I send one to the vice-principal's and keep one for a personal "very disappointed" speech. No way am I sending them away together! After a while, the prodigal student will return and we switch off, my keeper goes to the VP and the one I sent away gets an earful. Both students get a minimum one-day suspension, and I get paperwork.

If at any point a group of kids are: duct-tapping someone to a chair, drawing on them, holding them down, kicking them, etc. I'll tell them to stop once. Loudly. On my over. If they don't cease, I wade in and damn the consequences, because that shit simply does not fly in my classroom or my school. The student accounts should generally back me up.

Save the very last, I have been in all of these situations. Students usually back then when an obviously furious teacher tells them to. Sometimes they don't, and I know several teachers who have been injured breaking up fights (one was a 50+ year-old woman who got a broken leg for her trouble) but you do not yield to bullies for fear of issues with parents later. I have raised my hand to students once, to break up a fight, and I received a verbal warning from my supervisor of the day (the Sci. Dept head.) because that's the school policy. The effect of the warning may have been somewhat lessened when it was followed with a pat on the back and an assurance that I did the right thing.

Well, I teach at an urban high-school in ultra-liberal Massachusetts, so this may not be the same everywhere. Here, to me, it is an inviolable fact of existence. A child in my classroom is safe from harm. End of story. If something in the room is harmful or disruptive, even another student, it has to go.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I teach at a middle school in California. If I see a physical altercation between students I am OBLIGATED to break it up because I'm the 2nd biggest person on staff besides the football coach/science teacher (the students actually think we're brothers). The teacher in this video has checked out and lost control of his classroom. There's no excuse for this kind of thing, you just have to not allow it.

[Eleas]

I teach at a middle school in California. If I see a physical altercation between students I am OBLIGATED to break it up because I'm the 2nd biggest person on staff besides the football coach/science teacher (the students actually think we're brothers). The teacher in this video has checked out and lost control of his classroom. There's no excuse for this kind of thing, you just have to not allow it.

Absolutely. "Horseplay" (the go-to excuse for the asshole commentators at MSNBC regarding this article) is a meaningless fucking word steeped in bullying tradition. Even when kids are wrestling in good fun (which wasn't the case here), the situation could turn vicious at a moment's notice. That will happen when it's a) one student being ganged up on or b) when someone is pinned down. As the most obvious candidate for ringleader, the teacher must strenuously avoid even giving the appearance of sanctioning behavior by students against other students, for reasons obvious to sane people.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

It's in Washington state. Gold Bar, specifically.

You grew up in Gold Bar? Jesus. I feel bad for you just hearing that.


For others: Pierce county is the home of Tacoma, which is basically Seattle's ghetto 25 miles south of the actual city and linked to it by a long double chain of suburbs, with America's worst-run military base bookending the south end of the city for extra violence and social problems.

EDIT: Gig Harbor in specific is actually the affluent white city in Pierce County, though, though it is the home of the state women's prison.