Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

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Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

From Yahoo News
In a clip posted to online knowledge forum Big Think via YouTube, former children's show host Bill Nye spoke out against the denial of evolution, saying such views harm young people especially and hamper scientific progress.

Nye, who hosted the educational show "Bill Nye the Science Guy," which aired on PBS Kids from 1993 through 1998, made the statements in a clip posted online on Thursday, and has since been viewed over one million times. In the clip, Nye praises the United States for its contribution to technological innovation, but says that the denial of evolution is unique to the country.

"People still move to the United States. And that's largely because of the intellectual capital we have, the general understanding of science," Nye said in the clip. "When you have a portion of the population that doesn't believe in that, it holds everybody back, really.

"Evolution is the fundamental idea in all of life science, in all of biology. It's like, it's very much analogous to trying to do geology without believing in tectonic plates. You're just not going to get the right answer. Your whole world is just going to be a mystery instead of an exciting place," he added.
Nye made a three-stop tour through New Hampshire earlier this summer to tout President Obama's education policies while making a push for science and engineering programs. He has endorsed Obama's reelection bid.

In the clip, Nye said that one's "world just becomes fantastically complicated when you don't believe in evolution."
"Here are these ancient dinosaur bones or fossils, here is radioactivity, here are distant stars that are just like our star but they're at a different point in their lifecycle. The idea of deep time, of this billions of years, explains so much of the world around us. If you try to ignore that, your world view just becomes crazy, just untenable, itself inconsistent," he said.

Nye then goes on to urge adults not to deny the teaching of evolution to young people.
"And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, in your world that's completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe, that's fine, but don't make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need people that can - we need engineers that can build stuff, solve problems.

"It's just really a hard thing, it's really a hard thing. You know, in another couple of centuries that world view, I'm sure, will be, it just won't exist. There's no evidence for it."
And, just because no such article is complete without truely Stupid comments from mindless fundies,
I offer the following in the way of perhaps THEE most retarded attack upon Mr. Nye:
As Every scientist knows DNA contains 'information'. Information can NOT be created by the evolution of light photons (the first particles from the big bang. Think, let there be light) into atoms, then into molecules and on and on with increasing complexity. DNA and genomes are so complex that super computers and thousands of scientists have barely made a dent into what it all means. Sounds like a supreme being to me, at least supreme to Bill Nye since he can't answer this question.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Korto »

Information can NOT be created by the evolution of light photons (the first particles from the big bang. Think, let there be light) into atoms, then into molecules and on and on with increasing complexity.
Nice statement. You've based this on what, exactly? Divine revelation? But since you seem to have merged Creationism with The Big Bang with Evolution, I'm not expecting the answer to be any more self-consistent.
...since he can't answer this question
I'm sorry, there was a question?
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

That's not his view. He just pastes a comment from the article to showcase the idiots dwelling there. In case you didn't know it, one Yahoo page contains more stupidity than three special schools.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Eternal_Freedom »

Dr. Trainwreck wrote:In case you didn't know it, one Yahoo page contains more stupidity than three special schools.
Special schools really aren't something to joke about my friend. Please refrain from it.

Anyway, it's nice to see people actually saying stuff like this (the Bill Nye parts anyway). Amusingly, that last section "And I say to you..." sounds rather like Biblical teachings about passing your sins on to your children. How amusing that their own scripture can be used as a weapon against them.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by CaptJodan »

I doubt it will make any real difference. You have all kinds of scientists and engineers, intellectuals, professors, even celebrities speaking out against this stupidity, but it never really seems to sink in. And I don't see many parents going "Well, I believe evolution is a crock, but for Bill Nye, I will teach my child differently". Parents rarely advocate what they don't believe personally, and that's even less common with the type of people who believe in religious doctrine over science anyway.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Simon_Jester »

It's all about influencing people at the margins, Jodan. Social progress comes by convincing 1%, or sometimes even 0.1%, of the population every year. Not by making everyone change their mind at once.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by CaptJodan »

At this point, it's more damage control, though. Anti-evolutionary types are starting to gain a foothold in schools and political discourse. I'm amazed how many perfectly rational, intelligent people I meet or know who believe "teach both evolution and creationism in schools" is a perfectly valid position, even amongst the non-religious.

If we're talking about margin swinging, the campaign run by anti-evolutionary people is more effective at this point, because on a gut level, it seems so much more sensible to "teach the controversy and let the students decide the truth" rather than be confronted with what is seen as dogmatic fact (or "just" a theory).
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Crazedwraith »

CaptJodan wrote:At this point, it's more damage control, though. Anti-evolutionary types are starting to gain a foothold in schools and political discourse. I'm amazed how many perfectly rational, intelligent people I meet or know who believe "teach both evolution and creationism in schools" is a perfectly valid position, even amongst the non-religious.
That is reasonable as far as I am concerned. So long as you teach evolution in science classes and Creationism in RE.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

That is reasonable as far as I am concerned. So long as you teach evolution in science classes and Creationism in RE.
Nope, still bad. These two accounts contradict each other, whether they are respectively taught in science and RE or science and cooking. But sadly, rationality is not the norm in the globe, so we have to seriously deal with people who, given the chance, would love to live somewhere like Iran if it suited their beliefs.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Crazedwraith »

Dr. Trainwreck wrote:
That is reasonable as far as I am concerned. So long as you teach evolution in science classes and Creationism in RE.
Nope, still bad. These two accounts contradict each other, whether they are respectively taught in science and RE or science and cooking. But sadly, rationality is not the norm in the globe, so we have to seriously deal with people who, given the chance, would love to live somewhere like Iran if it suited their beliefs.
I disagree.

To clarify when I say 'teach creationism in RE instead of Science'. I mean than it in RE it would be taught as 'this is how the universe/earth/human race began' but 'this is how Christians believe the universe/Earth/human race began' . IE) it would be treated as a story and not presented as a viable alternative to big bang and evolution theory. And it would be taught along side the creation stories of the other major religions as well.

Say they shouldn't be taught because they contradict is silly. I guess we shouldn't teach kids shakespeare either. After all it contradicts actual historical fact!
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by FSTargetDrone »

Crazedwraith wrote:Say they shouldn't be taught because they contradict is silly. I guess we shouldn't teach kids shakespeare either. After all it contradicts actual historical fact!
Shakespeare isn't presented as truth or "fact." Creationism is.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Crazedwraith »

FSTargetDrone wrote:
Crazedwraith wrote:Say they shouldn't be taught because they contradict is silly. I guess we shouldn't teach kids shakespeare either. After all it contradicts actual historical fact!
Shakespeare isn't presented as truth or "fact." Creationism is.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by CaptJodan »

Crazedwraith wrote:
FSTargetDrone wrote: Shakespeare isn't presented as truth or "fact." Creationism is.
Did you read my entire post? Go back and do so now.
I think the point he may be trying to make is that what is being posited by anti-evolutionists, that both sides should be presented, is more in line with both sides being taught IN SCIENCE CLASS, rather than creationism being taught in some humanities class while evolution stays in the science curriculum.

Sure, even I wouldn't have a problem visiting creationism in a class examining religious views past and present from around the world. Hell, I think a class like that is desperately needed as it might challenge preconceived notions that Christianity is the only game in town for many people. I personally would have benefited from a more complete education in other forms of religions. But when people advocate "teach the controversy" they're not advocating separating it from science (they're not even advocating other creation myths besides Christianity's version). They want it in the science class because by it not being in the science class automatically suggests that it is somehow less true or real. By putting it in science class, you effectively make it equal to evolution. And all the students need to do is just decide which is more true (which will probably be biased to what they were raised with).

So what FSTD said was true. Shakespeare isn't, and never was, treated as historical fact. But those pushing "teach the controversy" want Creationism treated as historical fact.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Crazedwraith »

Again please read the context of my posts. The shakespeare comparison was in response to Dr Trainwreck who claimed that even teach about creationism in RE, as a religious concept and not as an alternative to evolution would be unacceptable.

Yeah 'teach the controversy' is fucking dumb. That doesn't mean kids have to be entirely banned from learning about religion and culture in a balanced way. As long it is seperated from science and taught along side the beleifs of all other religions.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Hillary »

I'm not sure how you can even teach Christianity in an RE class without discussion Creationism.

It's a bit like trying to teach about Buddhism without mentioning reincarnation.

The point of an RE class is to understand a religion's belief system and its impact on the world.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Spoonist »

@Hillary
Outside of US its quite easy. The Catholic church for instance recognize evolution as gods creation principle.
Then in countries like mine the creation myths of most major religions are gone through as a comperative excercise, what are the similarities what is the story etc.

So Creationism with a capital C doesn't have to be covered in religious studies at all. Instead over here we covered Creationism in political studies.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by noncredible »

I'm in junior high in the Calgary Catholic School District. In RE, Creationism is presented as figurative story that shouldn't be taken literally, but the underlying belief is that God created the world. IIRC, this is the Vatican's official viewpoint.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Baffalo »

Spoonist wrote:Outside of US its quite easy. The Catholic church for instance recognize evolution as gods creation principle.
The first I heard of this was what a professor dubbed the "Clockwork Universe" theory of creationism. Basically, the idea is that God built the universe in such a way that it was like a clock, putting each tiny piece into place just perfectly, then winding it up (aka the Big Bang) and releasing it to do exactly as he built it to do. Basically it's a hands-off approach except to occasionally step in and tinker with the finer workings, but otherwise leads to the idea that God is still the master creator even in a universe that's being unveiled by science.

But the reason I bring that up is because I never received an RE class, though that could be partially because evolution was sorta glossed over in biology and science classes just sorta said "Meh, big bang happened, lots of time went by, etc etc, read this for tomorrow." That might have changed since I graduated but I highly doubt it.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Wing Commander MAD »

My school covered the Christian creation myth, along with others, in one of the literature classes, I'm thinking somewhere in the 5th-8th grade level. Mind you they were examined from a literary perspective. That worked out fairly well and to me seemed rather natural. The school never offered a Religion class, instead the belief systems were covered (well the major ones at least) in Social Studies classes. Social Studies was pretty much a mishmash of history, geography, politics, and culture that tended to start with the U.S and its regions in early grades and then expanded to include the rest of the world in later grades up through middle school. IIRC once you hit high school you then got specific history, geography, etc. courses. So its quite possible to expose people to such concepts as Creationism outside of a dedicated Religious Studies class, whithout dragging them into the sciences.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

Sorry Wraith, I literally forgot to reply.
To clarify when I say 'teach creationism in RE instead of Science'. I mean than it in RE it would be taught as 'this is how the universe/earth/human race began' but 'this is how Christians believe the universe/Earth/human race began' . IE) it would be treated as a story and not presented as a viable alternative to big bang and evolution theory. And it would be taught along side the creation stories of the other major religions as well.

Say they shouldn't be taught because they contradict is silly. I guess we shouldn't teach kids shakespeare either. After all it contradicts actual historical fact!
That's sound, but... my problem is that the people pushing for creationism at school do not want it to be just a myth, but a theory that is as credible as actual science. This, eventually, will hamper the kids' progress, same with teaching Shakespeare as historical fact. If they just say 'those guys believe it is that way' I won't have any problem, but they want to say 'those guys are as credible as scientists'. It both elevates religion in ways it doesn't deserve, and downgrades scientific fact to bullshit used to pass the time.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Executor32 »

Daily Currant wrote:Bill Nye Blasts Todd Akin, Challenges ‘Fucking Idiot’ to Debate
August 30th, 2012

Bill Nye may still be The Science Guy, but he's no longer Mr. Nice Guy.

During a live interview this morning with the Smithsonian Channel, the mild mannered science educator unloaded on U.S. Congressman Todd Akin, calling him "a fucking idiot" for accusing Nye of personally provoking Hurricane Issac.

Last week Nye uploaded a video to Youtube urging parents not to teach their children creationism. At a town hall campaign event yesterday, Akin used the video as an example of immoral behavior driving god to punish America through extreme weather.

Although reporters reached out to Nye for a statement yesterday, his first discussion of the matter came this morning at Smithsonian's Washington D.C. headquarters.

Nye Got a Feeling...

The 56 year old star of the long-running "Bill Nye The Science Guy" was in the studio to promote his new documentary series focusing on the neuroscience of childhood development.

After briefly discussing his show, the Smithsonian anchors asked Nye about Akin's recent accusation. The normally genial Nye wasted no time venting his rage about the comments:

"Look, these people they're fucking retarded. Rape can't cause pregnancy? Breastmilk cures homosexuality? I caused a hurricane by challenging creationism? Who can possibly take these people seriously anymore?"

The slightly uncomfortable anchors then tried to change the subject, but Nye persisted:

"It used to be these Republicans didn't believe in global warming or evolution. That was bad enough. Now they don't even believe in egg + sperm = baby. Where does Todd Akin think babies come from? Does he think there are separate storks for people who were raped and people who weren't?"

"Hey look over there! It's the rape stork. It drops its babies directly at the orphanage."

"He's a fucking idiot. Just a plain fucking idiot. I'm sorry - I don't say that word very often - but it happens to fit in this case. He's just a fucking idiot."

A Decent Proposal

As the stunned anchors hurriedly tried to wind the conversation down and cut to commercial, Nye stared directly into the camera and issued a challenge to his new-found rival:

"So Todd I got an offer for you. You and me. Any time. Any place. Debating science mano- a-mano. I'll bring the facts, and you bring the Vaseline. Because your ass is gonna fucking need it when I'm done whipping."

Nye apologized once more for his language before ripping off his microphone and walking off the set.

Representatives of the Smithsonian Channel say they have no comment on the incident.

Bill Nye could not be reached, but a since-deleted tweet on his Twiiter account posted shortly after the incident read:

"@ToddAkin Never enter the eye of Hurricane NYE!"
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by SilverWingedSeraph »

I really, truly wish that wasn't parody. It's not often that I hope a parody news piece is real, but this is such an occasion.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Singular Intellect »

Executor32 wrote:*snip*
:D Bill Nye qualifies as one of my heros now.
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Executor32 »

SilverWingedSeraph wrote:I really, truly wish that wasn't parody. It's not often that I hope a parody news piece is real, but this is such an occasion.
I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. Only after I tried to find a video of the supposed interview did I realize it was satire.
どうして?お前が夜に自身お触れるから。
Long ago in a distant land, I, Aku, the shape-shifting Master of Darkness, unleashed an unspeakable evil,
but a foolish samurai warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow
was struck, I tore open a portal in time and flung him into the future, where my evil is law! Now, the fool
seeks to return to the past, and undo the future that is Aku...
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Re: Bill Nye lays into Creationists.

Post by Terralthra »

Don't be hard on yourself. Daily Currant nearly got me with the "Dan Akin says homosexuals can be cured with breast milk" article.
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