Riots in Belfast

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Zaune
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Riots in Belfast

Post by Zaune »

Guardian
Twenty-six police officers were injured in sectarian rioting between loyalist and republican gangs in north Belfast, and the violence was continuing into the night.

At one stage riot police in the lower Antrim Road/Carlisle Circus area had to simultaneously repel attacks from both sides. Petrol bombs, fireworks, golf balls and bottles were thrown at police lines, as the Police Service of Northern Ireland responded with water cannon. At least three officers were taken to hospital. There were also unconfirmed reports of baton rounds being fired.

The disorder erupted following a republican parade which passed Clinton Street Orange Hall on Sunday afternoon. The Republican Network for Unity, the anti-Sinn Féin group that organised the march, said the 300-strong parade came under attack from loyalists. Among the injured were women and children, RNU alleged.

The Orange Order claimed the trouble began after Clifton Street Orange Hall was attacked by republicans. The Order said the attack appeared to be "premeditated". A number of arrests have been made.

As well as missiles and molotov cocktails, the loyalists from the edge of the Lower Shankill estate drove burning wheelie bins against police lines. Police used water cannon to counter the threat from the blazing bins. It appeared that all the police casualties were due to loyalist violence in and around Denmark Street, the main entry point into the Lower Shankill estate.

The violent scenes were witnessed by terrified residents of an old people's home facing Carlisle Circus. Motorists were advised to avoid the Carlisle Circus/Antrim Road area last night.

A heavy security presence remained in the area overnight, with a police helicopter hovering overhead and dozens of heavily armed officers on the streets.

Tensions have been high in Belfast's north inner city since last weekend when seven police officers were injured trying to keep rival loyalist and republican factions apart. That trouble broke out after loyalist marching bands defied a legal ban on them playing sectarian songs outside St Patrick's chapel, one of Belfast's oldest Catholic churches. Nationalist residents, outraged over the bands' behaviour, got involved in scuffles with loyalist supporters. Since then the atmosphere in north Belfast has been poisonous, with both sides blaming each other.

The area around the church has become the latest battleground in the Ulster loyalist marching dispute.

Belfast Sinn Féin councillor Fra McCann said a Catholic home close the so-called peace line separating the republican Falls Road from the loyalist Shankill had been attacked with petrol bombs as the violence appeared to spread.

Even if the current violence subsides, there are fears of further trouble in north Belfast later this month. Thousands of Orangemen and loyalists are expected to march past St Patrick's on 29 September as they commemorate the 100th anniversary of the Ulster Covenant, the pledge by hundreds of thousands of unionists in 1912 to oppose Home Rule.

The latest sectarian disorder coincided with the 18th anniversary of the weekend the IRA declared a ceasefire 18 years ago.

This latest parading dispute demonstrates that despite ceasefires, the peace process and power sharing at Stormont, sectarian divisions, especially in working class areas of Belfast, remain entrenched.
That was last night. They're still at it.

There has been further disorder in north Belfast with police again being attacked with petrol bombs.

A bus has also been hijacked and set alight by Ulster loyalists close to the scene where 47 police officers were injured during nearly ten hours of rioting on Sunday night.

Eyewitnesses say the Police Service of Northern Ireland have again been forced to deploy water cannon to quell the trouble close to the entrance of the Lower Shankill estate.

The violence followed a loyalist protest at tea time against the policing of their demonstration on Sunday. The loyalists were protesting against a republican band parade passing by a local Orange Hall.

Locals estimate that around 300 loyalists are taking part in rioting with a smaller number of republicans penned back by police lines nearby.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland has vowed to prosecute those behind the riots.

PSNI Chief Superintendent George Clark defended the force's handling of the disorder in the Carlisle Circus-Antrim Road area overnight on Sunday.

He said officers holding the line between rioting loyalists and republicans had shown "tremendous courage" in the face of the violence. At one stage up to 40 petrol bombs were thrown at police, he said, the majority from loyalist lines.

Clark said those responsible would be "held to account for their actions".

The PSNI said the initial violence was caused by loyalists demonstrating against a republican band parade passing by the Clifton Street Orange Hall on Sunday afternoon. Up to 350 loyalists rained petrol bombs, golf balls, bricks and stones on police lines close to the Lower Shankill estate. Riot squad officers fought running battles with republicans along the nearby Antrim Road.

The police used water cannons to try to quell the violence, which subsided at about 2am.

Clark said the violence against his officers was savage, but confirmed that the PSNI did not fire any baton rounds at the rioters.

Sinn Féin said on Sunday night that loyalists almost killed a family, including five children, after a Catholic home near the peace line in west Belfast was bombarded with petrol bombs.

Sinn Féin councillor Fra McCann said the attack could "only be described as attempted murder by those responsible".

The atmosphere in north Belfast has been tense since the previous weekend when loyalists defied a ban on their bands playing sectarian songs as they filed past St Patrick's church in Donegall Street.

There are fears of further trouble in the area at the end of this month when thousands of loyalists are scheduled to pass St Patrick's on 29 September. The parade is part of a day-long commemoration of the 1912 Ulster Covenant – the mass unionist opposition to home rule 100 years ago.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Hundred year aniversary celebration.

expect a few more of these coming up.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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God. I wish both sides would just DIE and stop hurting the rest of the people there. These people are a blight on everything. And to think I was naive and stupid enough to think it was one sided.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Not nearly as bad as it was then, but the sentiment still holds true.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Dumbass woman on the news "Oh, well, the rest of the Provinces may have moved on, but we haven't." Using that as some kind of defense or justification.

FFS, WHY haven't you moved on you small-minded bitch?
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Re: Riots in Belfast

Post by Ultonius »

Eternal_Freedom wrote:Dumbass woman on the news "Oh, well, the rest of the Provinces may have moved on, but we haven't." Using that as some kind of defense or justification.

FFS, WHY haven't you moved on you small-minded bitch?
She might have lost family in the Troubles. It's understandable, if regrettable, that a person could be made bitter and unwilling to compromise by that. Also, while I didn't see the report, I would guess she said 'the Province', which is a colloquial name for Northern Ireland, often used by Unionists, rather than 'the Provinces'.

The whole thing makes me wonder what's going to happen in 2016 when the centenary of the Easter Rising comes around, and in 2022, with the centenary of Partition.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Ultonius wrote:Also, while I didn't see the report, I would guess she said 'the Province', which is a colloquial name for Northern Ireland, often used by Unionists, rather than 'the Provinces'.
I'd say it's just as likely that by "the rest of the Provinces" she meant Connacht, Leinster and Munster.
The whole thing makes me wonder what's going to happen in 2016 when the centenary of the Easter Rising comes around, and in 2022, with the centenary of Partition.
Probably (and hopefully) just more of the same.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Province or Province notwithstanding, she stuck me as a woman trying to defend her naievety with some reasonable sounding bullshit. Trouble is, like I said, WHY haven't you moved on? You admit it ourself, others have, why can't you?

The whole damn thing makes me mad. Catholics and Protestants rioting over a band playing a sectarian tune in front of a church? And I though HAMAS and co were petty and small-minded. Grow the fuck up people.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

Post by Zaune »

It's not about some band trolling the church congregation though, not really. That's just the excuse. The reason is that Belfast's full of council estates where everyone's out of work, skint, pissed off and looking for someone to blame.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Zaune wrote:It's not about some band trolling the church congregation though, not really. That's just the excuse. The reason is that Belfast's full of council estates where everyone's out of work, skint, pissed off and looking for someone to blame.
True.They could have found an excuse that doesn't make them look quite so retarded though. I would have sympathy for their situation, but then they decided to go rioting, and I have no sympathy for them at all now.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Zaune wrote:It's not about some band trolling the church congregation though, not really. That's just the excuse. The reason is that Belfast's full of council estates where everyone's out of work, skint, pissed off and looking for someone to blame.
Plus they've been beating the crap out of each other for 400+ years. 800+ if you count the rest of the island. This is not the sort of tradition that gets given up overnight, and at least bricks and molotovs represent an improvement over military-grade weaponry.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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I spent a bit of the summer back home in Belfast this summer. Same shit new day.

In this case of these new riots the Nationalists are actually not so to blame. The Parades Commission allowed the parade on the last Saturday of August on the condition that the Loyalist flute bands would only play a drum beat passing the Catholic church. The bands instead decided to stop and play some very provocative tunes, some of which contain such friendly words as "we're up to our necks in Fenian blood" and other songs that refer to the Virgin Mary as a whore. These bands also revere mass murderers such as Oliver Cromwell and many have ties to neo-nazi's such as Combat 18 and the National Front.

The main problem is that communities do not mix, meaning they can't get by the past. Schools rarely if ever mix and integrated schools are the exception not the norm. I have family from the Loyalist side that refuse point blank to socialise in town for fear that they will mix with Catholics.

My partner is a Catholic from Cork and when she tried living with me in Belfast there were no end of trouble, her car was keyed more than once and our next door neighbor kept leaving beer bottles under the wheels because she had a Dublin reg car. When her siblings visited they had to avoid wearing certain clothes because some manufacturers are associated only with GAA which in the North is pretty much Catholic only.

The British Government is partially at fault here, they have indulged both communities shamelessly. The cost of the segregated society costs the tax payer over £100bn a year, in this day and age it is a disgrace.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Lord Pounder wrote:The British Government is partially at fault here, they have indulged both communities shamelessly. The cost of the segregated society costs the tax payer over £100bn a year, in this day and age it is a disgrace.
The way you tell it I don't reckon they have much choice; can you imagine the consequences of forcibly integrating schools, or rehousing council tenants to force the two communities to actually mix?
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Zaune wrote:
Lord Pounder wrote:The British Government is partially at fault here, they have indulged both communities shamelessly. The cost of the segregated society costs the tax payer over £100bn a year, in this day and age it is a disgrace.
The way you tell it I don't reckon they have much choice; can you imagine the consequences of forcibly integrating schools, or rehousing council tenants to force the two communities to actually mix?
A great many on either side would have welcomed more integration. I'm not saying it would be an over night process, however things are easier if integration is begun at a younger age. When I was in Primary School one a month we took lessons with a Catholic maintained school, while there were some hairy moments like a guy in my class turning up in a full Glasgow Rangers kit the majority of us benefited from it.

The Deloitte Report on the Cost of Maintaining a Segregated Society explains nicely were so much money is wasted. It may be difficult at first for some but Unionist and Nationalist alike need to realise that the money is not there any more and they need to grow up.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Captain Seafort wrote:Plus they've been beating the crap out of each other for 400+ years. 800+ if you count the rest of the island. This is not the sort of tradition that gets given up overnight, and at least bricks and molotovs represent an improvement over military-grade weaponry.
Wasn't Northern Ireland where the 'English' first started conquering and dispossessing the Irish of their land 8-900 years ago? Or was the earlier ethnic tensions elsewhere?
Lord Pounder wrote: A great many on either side would have welcomed more integration. I'm not saying it would be an over night process, however things are easier if integration is begun at a younger age. When I was in Primary School one a month we took lessons with a Catholic maintained school, while there were some hairy moments like a guy in my class turning up in a full Glasgow Rangers kit the majority of us benefited from it.
What is the symbolism of that? I know 'football' has been used in nationalist contexts, but I am not sure if the fans of the team are unionist or pan-celtic. Being from Scotland, I am thinking the later but I am not sure.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Saxtonite wrote: Wasn't Northern Ireland where the 'English' first started conquering and dispossessing the Irish of their land 8-900 years ago? Or was the earlier ethnic tensions elsewhere?
No, the Norman (rather than English) invasion of Ireland at that time first targeted Wexford, Waterford and Dublin, far to the south of what is now Northern Ireland. The Province of Ulster, six counties of which make up Northern Ireland, remained fairly free of English influence until the 1590s. The Tudors had been reconquering Ireland over the course of the 16th century, and when they attempted to extend their influence over Ulster, an alliance of clans under Hugh O'Neill resisted them, leading to the Nine Years' War from 1594 to 1603, which the Tudors won. That war, and a subsequent failed rebellion by Cahir O'Doherty, led to the Plantation of Ulster, which involved the confiscation of the lands of most of the native landowners, and the settlement of English and Scottish Protestants on those lands. The existence of a relatively large population of Protestants in Ulster has had a large impact on the province's history from then on, and is largely the reason for Northern Ireland's existence.
Saxtonite wrote: What is the symbolism of that? I know 'football' has been used in nationalist contexts, but I am not sure if the fans of the team are unionist or pan-celtic. Being from Scotland, I am thinking the later but I am not sure.
In Northern Ireland, Rangers are mainly supported by Protestants (Unionists and Loyalists), while Catholics (Nationalists and Republicans) tend to support Celtic.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Saxtonite wrote: What is the symbolism of that? I know 'football' has been used in nationalist contexts, but I am not sure if the fans of the team are unionist or pan-celtic. Being from Scotland, I am thinking the later but I am not sure.
Not being funny, but how on earth can you be from Scotland and NOT know this?
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Hillary wrote:
Saxtonite wrote: What is the symbolism of that? I know 'football' has been used in nationalist contexts, but I am not sure if the fans of the team are unionist or pan-celtic. Being from Scotland, I am thinking the later but I am not sure.
Not being funny, but how on earth can you be from Scotland and NOT know this?
I think he's referring to the teams being from Scotland, not him.
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Re: Riots in Belfast

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Captain Seafort wrote:
Hillary wrote:
Saxtonite wrote: What is the symbolism of that? I know 'football' has been used in nationalist contexts, but I am not sure if the fans of the team are unionist or pan-celtic. Being from Scotland, I am thinking the later but I am not sure.
Not being funny, but how on earth can you be from Scotland and NOT know this?
I think he's referring to the teams being from Scotland, not him.
Ah yes, that would explain it. Apologies to the Captain. :oops:
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