Phoenix, AZ to reconsider the use of Fluoridated Water

[General Zod]

Congratulations AZ, you're officially the most special state in the Union.

WASHINGTON - When she was diagnosed with hypothyroidism in 2004, Phoenix resident Jody Clute had no idea it would lead her, and her city, to revisit one of the biggest public-health debates of the 20th century -- water fluoridation.

After her diagnosis, Clute read "every book she could get her hands on" about the thyroid, and they all said to stay away from fluoride.

But that's nearly impossible with fluoride in the drinking water, even in some bottled waters. So Clute started asking questions, and started asking the city to do the same.

The City Council has agreed to take a look, making Phoenix the largest city to reconsider fluoridation. On Sept. 11, a council subcommittee will hear testimony on the fluoridation of the city's water supply and vote whether to send the issue to the full council for review.

"No one had even thought about it or even thought to think about it," Clute said of the council. "Fluoride in water was like air."

And just about as harmful, supporters of fluoridation say.

"It's like saying you treat some people with oxygen because they have lung disease -- but having oxygen in the air is wrong," said Steven Schonfeld, a spokesman for the American Dental Association. "Their argument is just bogus."

Arizona Dental Association Director Kevin Earle said challenges to fluoridation are based on "junk science."

"It's like adding vitamin C to your milk, a supplement to your bread. They are not harmful supplements," he said.

Clute understands the stereotype of the anti-fluoride activist, the person who sees a threat in what the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention identified as one of the top 10 public-health achievements of the 20th century.

"I'm not a conspiracy theorist, and I'm not a hippie," Clute said.

Forty-two of the 50 largest U.S. cities are fully fluoridated, a process that was popularized in the 1950s as a cheap, effective way to prevent tooth decay. Phoenix began fluoridating its water 22 years ago, and nearly 57 percent of Arizona residents got fluoridated water in 2010, according to the CDC.

Cities that fluoridate their water reduce cavities by 20 to 40 percent, according to the national association.

Phoenix spends $582,000 a year on water fluoridation, according to a spokesman for Phoenix's Water Service Department, which averages out to just under 40 cents per resident per year.

The Environmental Protection Agency limits the presence of fluoride in drinking-water systems to 4 parts per million.

But opponents argue that while officials can control the amount of fluoride in the water, they cannot control the amount of water that people consume.

"You're giving every human the same medicine, and you have no control over how much they consume," Clute said. "It's in everything, everything with water."

Other opponents say that any amount of fluoride is still too high.

[Dalton]

Is there any significant causal link between fluoridated water and thyroid problems? All my Google hits so far have come from hysterical anti-fluoridation sites and other woo-woo peddlers.

[Lonestar]

But...my precious bodily fluids...

[Dark Hellion]

But...my precious bodily fluids...

I first noticed it during the act of making love...

[Lonestar]

But...my precious bodily fluids...

I first noticed it during the act of making love...

I was overcome with a profound sense of fatigue...

[PainRack]

I first noticed it during the act of making love...

I was overcome with a profound sense of fatigue...

Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.


Also,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6384648

So, it turns out that there were some studies that show high doses of fluoride inhibits thyroid hormones in rats.

[Zaune]

You know, I actually tried to get Dr Strangelove shown at Movie Night while I was at Occupy Windsor just to annoy the flouridation conspiracy nuts...

[PainRack]

You know, I actually tried to get Dr Strangelove shown at Movie Night while I was at Occupy Windsor just to annoy the flouridation conspiracy nuts...

Do tell more:D What happened next?

[PeZook]

The Environmental Protection Agency limits the presence of fluoride in drinking-water systems to 4 parts per million.

But opponents argue that while officials can control the amount of fluoride in the water, they cannot control the amount of water that people consume.

"You're giving every human the same medicine, and you have no control over how much they consume," Clute said. "It's in everything, everything with water."

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but they may be right. At 4 mg per liter, you'd only have to consume about 4 liters of water to get enough fluoride in your system to start showing symptoms.

[Broomstick]

That is the upper permitted limit, not the recommended amount. The recommended amount is 0.7 ppm in warm climates (that would be Phoenix) to 1.2 ppm in cooler climates.

The information I could find on line lists the fluoride content of the Phoenix municipal water system is 0.8 mg/L. Please adjust your calculations accordingly.

[slebetman]

Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but they may be right. At 4 mg per liter, you'd only have to consume about 4 liters of water to get enough fluoride in your system to start showing symptoms.

You're doing something wrong. 4mg/L is 4 parts per thousand. Try 4ug.

[PeZook]

You're doing something wrong. 4mg/L is 4 parts per thousand. Try 4ug.

Uh, no?

1 mg = 1/1000g = 1/1000 000kg

1 liter of water weighs one kilogram, so I'm pretty sure it's 4mg per liter. 4 parts per thousand would be 4 GRAMS per liter, since 1kg = 1000g.

[PeZook]

That is the upper permitted limit, not the recommended amount. The recommended amount is 0.7 ppm in warm climates (that would be Phoenix) to 1.2 ppm in cooler climates.

The information I could find on line lists the fluoride content of the Phoenix municipal water system is 0.8 mg/L. Please adjust your calculations accordingly.

Well, if it's 0.8, then an 80kg adult would have to drink 20 litres of fresh Phoenix tapwater in order to have any symptoms (ie. bowel discomfort). Yeah, if you have to drink that much water, either you're doing hard labor in the full burning Arizona sun, are a prisoner in Maricopa County or you have kidney problems.

Either way an irritated bowel will be the least of your problems.

[Zaune]

Do tell more:D What happened next?

Not very much, actually; Dave the 9/11 truther/climate change denier/anarcho-syndicatist skiing instructor sulked for a bit, it was added to the list of movie night suggestions and we spent the next two hours arguing in circles about... something or other, I forget exactly what, until the meeting abruptly broke up when half of us quietly slipped away to occupy the nearest bar.

A motion to start holding all future General Assemblies there in order to save time was regrettably defeated.

[Rekkon]

That is the upper permitted limit, not the recommended amount. The recommended amount is 0.7 ppm in warm climates (that would be Phoenix) to 1.2 ppm in cooler climates.

The information I could find on line lists the fluoride content of the Phoenix municipal water system is 0.8 mg/L. Please adjust your calculations accordingly.

Well, if it's 0.8, then an 80kg adult would have to drink 20 litres of fresh Phoenix tapwater in order to have any symptoms (ie. bowel discomfort). Yeah, if you have to drink that much water, either you're doing hard labor in the full burning Arizona sun, are a prisoner in Maricopa County or you have kidney problems.

Either way an irritated bowel will be the least of your problems.

I am pretty sure that would kill you via water intoxication.

[PeZook]

Depends on mineral contents of Pheonix tapwater and other factors, but yeah. If you drink 20 litres of water, you either already have a serious problem (your kidneys are failing, diabetes, etc.) or you're going to have one shortly, and it's not going to be bowels irritated by fluoride.

[mr friendly guy]

That is the upper permitted limit, not the recommended amount. The recommended amount is 0.7 ppm in warm climates (that would be Phoenix) to 1.2 ppm in cooler climates.

The information I could find on line lists the fluoride content of the Phoenix municipal water system is 0.8 mg/L. Please adjust your calculations accordingly.

Well, if it's 0.8, then an 80kg adult would have to drink 20 litres of fresh Phoenix tapwater in order to have any symptoms (ie. bowel discomfort). Yeah, if you have to drink that much water, either you're doing hard labor in the full burning Arizona sun, are a prisoner in Maricopa County or you have kidney problems.

Either way an irritated bowel will be the least of your problems.

I am pretty sure that would kill you via water intoxication.

You beat me to it. For example this woman died after consuming water from 2 two litre bottles in a short period of time. So she can't have consumed more than 4 litres. If someone manages to drink any where close to 20 L in a day they would likely be dead. Unless its magic homeopathic water of course, because you can drink gallons of that with no problems according to its pseudoscience advocates.

[PeZook]

BTW, 0.2-0.3 mg/kg doesn't even cause irritation of the bowel, it may cause bowel discomfort.

So it's like chewing too much gum, you may have a sudden bout of diarrhea and you'd be fine.

...or dead, depending how you got the fluoride into your system

[Col. Crackpot]

Do tell more:D What happened next?

Not very much, actually; Dave the 9/11 truther/climate change denier/anarcho-syndicatist skiing instructor sulked for a bit, it was added to the list of movie night suggestions and we spent the next two hours arguing in circles about... something or other, I forget exactly what, until the meeting abruptly broke up when half of us quietly slipped away to occupy the nearest bar.

A motion to start holding all future General Assemblies there in order to save time was regrettably defeated.

An Anachro-Syndicalist ski instructor ? What a delightfully bougouis profession.