Better Batteries Will Save the World...

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Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by Zaune »

... Too bad they're impossible to make.

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In the early 1970s, the research arm of Exxon hired a promising young engineer named Michael Stanley Whittingham and asked him to invent something—anything—that could reduce the company's dependence on crude oil. Whittingham and a team holed up at an Exxon R & D lab in New Jersey, and, as engineers are wont to do, started mixing together chemicals to see what would happen. When they injected potassium into the rare metal tantalum, they noticed something extraordinary—the resulting mixture had an extremely high capacity to store energy.

Over the next few months they continued tinkering with various metals. Whittingham's team replaced tantalum with titanium, and because potassium was hazardous to work with, they switched it for lithium. When they were done, Whittingham raced to Exxon's headquarters to report to the board that they'd created something amazing. It was the first lithium-based battery that worked at room temperature, and it had the potential to upend the entire energy business.

Of course, that didn't happen. Soon came a recession, an oil glut, and the election of Ronald Reagan, which ended a great deal of government funding for research into advanced energy projects. Exxon licensed Whittingham's battery technology and closed off the division. And for a while, the dream of a perfect battery that could replace gasoline was, once again, dead.

This is how it goes in the battery business. As Seth Fletcher, a senior editor at Popular Science, recounts in his engaging new book Bottled Lightning: Superbatteries, Electric Cars, and the New Lithium Economy, scientists have been trying to build a better battery since before the days of Thomas Edison (who was a major battery tinkerer himself). (Disclosure: Fletcher and I share the same literary agent.) If we had batteries that matched the price and performance of fossil fuels, we would not only have cleaner cars, but we might be able to remake much of the rest of the nation's energy infrastructure, too. Wind and solar power are generated intermittently—sometimes the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine—and batteries can moderate that volatility. Stores of batteries placed in the electric grid could collect energy when the sun shines or when the wind blows and then discharge it when we need it. Not to put too fine a point on it, but you might say that the future of the world depends on better batteries—a better battery would alter geopolitics, mitigate the disasters of climate change, and spur a new economic boom.

But a better battery doesn't seem to be in the offing anytime soon. As Fletcher explains, physics, politics, and the price of gasoline have always conspired against the improvement of battery technology. Fletcher's book is hopeful—he investigates a number of promising technologies that might theoretically challenge the dominance of fossil fuels. But many of them are a long way from fruition, and the history of failure in the battery industry doesn't inspire confidence. We might get a better battery someday, and if we do it will probably come from China, which has become the hub of advanced energy production. But don't hold your breath.

The fundamental problem with batteries is the existence of gasoline. Oil is cheap, abundant, and relatively easy to transport. Most importantly, it has a high "energy density"—meaning that it's phenomenally good at storing energy for its weight. Today's best lithium-ion batteries can hold about 200 watt-hours per kilogram—a measure of energy density—and they might theoretically be able to store about 400 watt-hours per kilogram. Gasoline has a density equivalent of around 13,000 watt-hours per kilogram.

The only reason electric cars might one day compete with cars that rely on internal combustion is that gasoline engines are highly inefficient; nearly all of the energy stored in gasoline is lost to heat. But gasoline makes up for that flaw with another advantage: When your car's out of gas, you can refill it in a few minutes. With today's electrical infrastructure, batteries need many hours to recharge. There's some hope that we might one day install fast-charging stations across the country, but the researchers Fletcher interviews point out that this is a daunting challenge. The battery in today's Tesla roadster needs about four hours to charge. If you wanted to charge that battery in 15 minutes, you'd need a 200-kilowatt electric substation feeding the charging station. "Your house takes 1 kilowatt," one expert tells Fletcher. "If you want to have something like a gasoline fuel station that is all electrical, you're talking about multimegawatts of power at that station. And I just don't see that happening."

Neither do I. So what's the answer? Fletcher's book ends with a look at the most far-out research in the battery world—the lithium-air battery. In this design, lithium and carbon combine with oxygen from the air to form a system with a staggering potential to store energy. In theory, the lithium-air battery could store 11,000 watt-hours per kilogram, which makes it, Fletcher says, "the best chance battery scientists have to beat gasoline." A lithium-air battery could allow a car to drive 500 miles before recharging. With that range, you wouldn't need a nationwide system of quick-charging stations. You could drive pretty much wherever you wanted all day, and then recharge your car at night.

But lithium-air is the cold fusion of the battery world—a would-be game-changer that has the unfortunate downside of being impossible to achieve (probably). Researchers have been working at lithium-air for decades, but there are a number of challenges to overcome before such a battery might be commercially viable. For one thing, the system uses lithium metal, which is highly, explosively reactive with water. (In a lithium-ion battery, lithium is combined with another element in the cathode, and it is also present as a salt that's dissolved in a solution.) * Water, of course, is present in the air, so the very idea of a battery that mixes lithium metal with air has always seemed little more than a fantasy. Fletcher reports that the fantasy has become slightly more real lately. A company called PolyPlus has developed a way to coat lithium metal to protect it from moisture, and IBM has launched a research project aimed at building a lithium-air battery.

But with every advance, there's another hurdle. PolyPlus's innovation makes the lithium metal in a lithium-air battery easy to recharge, but nobody knows, yet, how to recharge such a battery. Figuring that out seems destined to take many more years. The chief technology officer of PolyPlus tells Fletcher that it will be "a long time before you see battery packs that are large enough and proven and tested enough that you would start thinking about transportation."

That's the paradox of battery research. Advanced batteries could well solve many of the problems that dog us today. But they'll only come about many, many years from now—and by then, it could be too late.
Pretty old article, but still somewhat topical given that solar power's back in the news lately.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by Simon_Jester »

There's a subtlety here.

The problem with batteries as energy storage for things like cars is energy density and recharge rate for a physically small battery. The battery being expensive is not such a problem- it can cost five thousand dollars and still be cost-competitive with a gas tank over the long run, as long as it's reliable enough. But it has to be quick to recharge, and safe to recharge.

Half the time I think the way to handle that problem efficiently is to physically pull the batteries out of the car and replace them with charged ones. It works for all kinds of other devices, after all.

Anyway, for car and device batteries, they can be expensive but they must be dense and easy to recharge.


The problem with batteries in the context of solar power is different. Energy density is a lot less important. There's nothing stopping us from building a warehouse the size of the Boeing Everett Factory and stuffing it full of racks of batteries. Indeed, we could do it many times over. No problem.

And recharging isn't a problem, because for these huge battery warehouses, we can easily run big high-tension electrical lines into them, with the same kind of power infrastructure we'd use for a power plant.

The real trouble is cost: the battery material needs to be cheap enough that we can store trillions of kilowatt-hours of electricity, spread out around the world. That's the tough part. It's almost the mirror image of what we need for advanced car batteries: it can be big, it can be relatively inefficient, as long as it's cheap.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by Zaune »

Simon_Jester wrote:There's a subtlety here.

The problem with batteries as energy storage for things like cars is energy density and recharge rate for a physically small battery. The battery being expensive is not such a problem- it can cost five thousand dollars and still be cost-competitive with a gas tank over the long run, as long as it's reliable enough. But it has to be quick to recharge, and safe to recharge.

Half the time I think the way to handle that problem efficiently is to physically pull the batteries out of the car and replace them with charged ones. It works for all kinds of other devices, after all.
I've been saying the same thing for a while. Someone in the UK actually tried to create a battery-change station that would work much the same way, but it involved robot arms and an underground battery storage chamber and was far too complex and expensive to catch on. I think it started the ball rolling on proposals for a common battery-pack standard though, so it can't be all bad.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

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The problem is that the batteries are dangerous to handle and heavy- you'd really need a small crew of people working round the clock, it would still take several minutes at least. At best, it'd be like driving your car into Jiffy-Lube (for non-Americans in the audience, a company that owns a chain of stores that service cars for routine stuff like oil changes, and do it quickly while you wait). So you'd still need something like 15-20 minutes, in all probability.

And bad batteries would be the bane of the system, too- because this way they'd get passed around like a disease unless people exchanged them regularly.

It would also require that the design of the car be integrated with the design of the battery stations. Always a problem; it's been one of the big obstacles to things like hydrogen fuel cars.

When all is said and done, it might be cheaper to say "fuck it" and redesign cars to burn ammonia instead...
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

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There are perhaps ways to improve batteries with graphene. I read about it recently, but to my dismay forgot the details.

In any case nuclear + electric power + public transport solve "problems" more efficiently than better batteries alone do.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

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Simon_Jester wrote:The problem is that the batteries are dangerous to handle and heavy- you'd really need a small crew of people working round the clock, it would still take several minutes at least. At best, it'd be like driving your car into Jiffy-Lube (for non-Americans in the audience, a company that owns a chain of stores that service cars for routine stuff like oil changes, and do it quickly while you wait). So you'd still need something like 15-20 minutes, in all probability.

And bad batteries would be the bane of the system, too- because this way they'd get passed around like a disease unless people exchanged them regularly.
I reckon the best solution is to apply a similar solution to propane tanks; the user purchases the energy stored within while the battery itself remains the property of the supplier. And designing a self-contained battery pack that can be switched out with a forklift can't be an insurmountable engineering problem, surely.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

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Zaune wrote:And designing a self-contained battery pack that can be switched out with a forklift can't be an insurmountable engineering problem, surely.
I'd do it completely other way, actually - battery loaded from the bottom of the car. You drive over loading point, old battery is lowered down, new one raised up. Simply because of what was said before - designing different cars with huge opening for forklift is hard, not to mention less safe as it weakens shell around passengers in case of crash.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

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Doing it from underneath was pretty much what I was envisioning, only with the car up on one of those hydraulic lifts some garages use instead of inspection pits because that'd be simpler to install at an existing petrol station.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

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Stas Bush wrote:There are perhaps ways to improve batteries with graphene. I read about it recently, but to my dismay forgot the details.

In any case nuclear + electric power + public transport solve "problems" more efficiently than better batteries alone do.
Up to a point- but you can't really abolish the need for individual-driven vehicles that can travel anywhere-to-anywhere. If I don't live in a metropolitan center, if I have a job that requires me to move about freely, I need something equivalent to a car.
Zaune wrote:I reckon the best solution is to apply a similar solution to propane tanks; the user purchases the energy stored within while the battery itself remains the property of the supplier. And designing a self-contained battery pack that can be switched out with a forklift can't be an insurmountable engineering problem, surely.
I'm thinking more in terms of something that can be unbolted and replaced by two slightly trained guys with wrenches. Remember, you'll want this to be easy and require a minimum of heavy machinery- because it needs to be a reliable process. You can't have a station say "I'm sorry, we can't change your battery, our forklift is in the shop."

You also need to have an absolute minimum electrocution hazard. That's the really tricky bit. And (in my opinion) the bit that might make "just power the car with ammonia" more appealing.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

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Simon_Jester wrote:I'm thinking more in terms of something that can be unbolted and replaced by two slightly trained guys with wrenches. Remember, you'll want this to be easy and require a minimum of heavy machinery- because it needs to be a reliable process. You can't have a station say "I'm sorry, we can't change your battery, our forklift is in the shop."

You also need to have an absolute minimum electrocution hazard. That's the really tricky bit. And (in my opinion) the bit that might make "just power the car with ammonia" more appealing.
  • fully-automated
  • four to five minutes to exchange a battery module


Source
Car battery swapping in Israel

Better Place is set to launch an audacious electric car option: buy the vehicle but lease the battery, and pay for 'electric miles' like you would a cellphone contract. Today Israel and Denmark; tomorrow the world.

MNN.COM›
MNN BLOGGERS

Jim Motavalli

Car battery swapping in Israel
Better Place is set to launch an audacious electric car option: buy the vehicle but lease the battery, and pay for 'electric miles' like you would a cellphone contract. Today Israel and Denmark; tomorrow the world.
Wed, May 09 2012 at 11:37 AM EST

battery swapping FIVE-MINUTE SWAP: A Fluence goes through Better Place battery switching. (Photo: Jim Motavalli)
JERUSALEM, ISRAEL — Ever driven through a car wash? Well, hold that thought, because going through a Better Place battery-switching station is almost exactly like that — minus the soap suds, of course.

You may have heard of Better Place (BP). It's the California-based company, founded by the Israeli-born Shai Agassi in 2007, that has made its mission not only to wire the world for electric cars, but to do it with a unique twist — battery swapping. The concept is simple enough: Instead of relying solely on charging stations that take six hours or so to juice up an EV, the company adds the option of swapping the battery in an automated process that takes about five minutes.

Instead of buying a battery car and then figuring out how to charge it — public stations, home unit? — BP is a one-stop transportation solution. In Israel, customers buy “electric miles,” paying BP roughly $32,000 for the car (the Israeli price) than leasing the battery and a charging plan that gives them access to the company’s public network and the swap stations. It may not work this way, but the general rule of thumb is that you’d use home or public charging for commuting and errands, battery swapping for longer trips.
gassi, a former software executive, is one of the world’s great talkers, and taking his message around the globe has helped the company raise $750 million to date, with early support from heavyweights Bill Clinton and Israeli President Shimon Peres. Talking will only get you so far, but this week in Israel, BP was showing off not only its network of about 40 swap stations but also giving rides in the Renault Fluence Z.E. (right), a version of a popular car here that was custom-made for BP with swappable batteries. It’s on sale now, though BP hasn’t yet started its major marketing push in Israel.

Agassi stopped by on his way to a business meeting in New York, and admitted straight off that he’d forgotten to plug in his Fluence Z.E. the night before. “But it was no problem, because I drove to Jerusalem and swapped the battery at the station there. We’ve made an electric car more convenient than a gas car.” (Maybe he forgot to plug in on purpose?)

Agassi is a bit hard to quote since words come out of him in a torrent — he’s a bit like clean energy pioneer Amory Lovins that way. But one thing he said that makes a lot of sense is that Israel is a transportation island. “You can drive from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv in the space of one battery charge,” he said. “If your car goes outside Israel, that’s because it’s been stolen.” That’s largely because Israel’s neighbors aren’t so friendly, but it creates an ideal scenario for range-limited electric cars, one that BP is set to enable (along with a concurrent rollout in environmentally friendly Denmark.)
We tested Agassi’s theory in a breathtaking ride through the wooded hills around Jerusalem, taking a leisurely route to Tel Aviv via the BP switching station in Modi’in. Along for the ride was Dr. Barak Hershkovitz, the ophthalmologist who doubles as BP’s chief technical officer. I never got an eye exam, but I did learn quite a bit about the interface in the Fluence, which offers even more useful information than the Nissan Leaf (which shares its battery cells). Hershkovitz also pointed out the tall Jerusalem pines, proof that all of Israel isn’t desert.

The BP customer gets a range of options that include real-time range estimates, and the ability to plug in multiple destinations and come up with a pretty accurate guess (based on your previous driving performance) at what remaining range you’ll have at each point in your journey. “We looked at 1,600 possible driving scenarios, because it comes down to the fact that technology has to serve its users,” Hershkovitz said. “I asked, ‘Will my mother be able to do this?’” The computer mapped out the destinations as promised, but I messed up the calculations by ignoring the GPS and taking a wrong turn.

The swap station was fascinating, reminding me of the heavily robotized BMW factory I recently visited in Leipzig, Germany. The driver enters the business end of the car wash (excuse me, swap station) and hears various whirrings and clickings, including some compressor whine as the car is lifted up a few inches for optimal replacement angle. What the consumer doesn’t see is the extensive underground battery condo, capable of holding 16 packs (and with expansion capability to 32). Here's a look on video:

MNN.COM›
MNN BLOGGERS

Jim Motavalli

Car battery swapping in Israel
Better Place is set to launch an audacious electric car option: buy the vehicle but lease the battery, and pay for 'electric miles' like you would a cellphone contract. Today Israel and Denmark; tomorrow the world.
Wed, May 09 2012 at 11:37 AM EST

battery swapping FIVE-MINUTE SWAP: A Fluence goes through Better Place battery switching. (Photo: Jim Motavalli)
JERUSALEM, ISRAEL — Ever driven through a car wash? Well, hold that thought, because going through a Better Place battery-switching station is almost exactly like that — minus the soap suds, of course.

You may have heard of Better Place (BP). It's the California-based company, founded by the Israeli-born Shai Agassi in 2007, that has made its mission not only to wire the world for electric cars, but to do it with a unique twist — battery swapping. The concept is simple enough: Instead of relying solely on charging stations that take six hours or so to juice up an EV, the company adds the option of swapping the battery in an automated process that takes about five minutes.

Instead of buying a battery car and then figuring out how to charge it — public stations, home unit? — BP is a one-stop transportation solution. In Israel, customers buy “electric miles,” paying BP roughly $32,000 for the car (the Israeli price) than leasing the battery and a charging plan that gives them access to the company’s public network and the swap stations. It may not work this way, but the general rule of thumb is that you’d use home or public charging for commuting and errands, battery swapping for longer trips.

Agassi, a former software executive, is one of the world’s great talkers, and taking his message around the globe has helped the company raise $750 million to date, with early support from heavyweights Bill Clinton and Israeli President Shimon Peres. Talking will only get you so far, but this week in Israel, BP was showing off not only its network of about 40 swap stations but also giving rides in the Renault Fluence Z.E. (right), a version of a popular car here that was custom-made for BP with swappable batteries. It’s on sale now, though BP hasn’t yet started its major marketing push in Israel.

Agassi stopped by on his way to a business meeting in New York, and admitted straight off that he’d forgotten to plug in his Fluence Z.E. the night before. “But it was no problem, because I drove to Jerusalem and swapped the battery at the station there. We’ve made an electric car more convenient than a gas car.” (Maybe he forgot to plug in on purpose?)

Agassi is a bit hard to quote since words come out of him in a torrent — he’s a bit like clean energy pioneer Amory Lovins that way. But one thing he said that makes a lot of sense is that Israel is a transportation island. “You can drive from Jerusalem to Tel Aviv in the space of one battery charge,” he said. “If your car goes outside Israel, that’s because it’s been stolen.” That’s largely because Israel’s neighbors aren’t so friendly, but it creates an ideal scenario for range-limited electric cars, one that BP is set to enable (along with a concurrent rollout in environmentally friendly Denmark.)

We tested Agassi’s theory in a breathtaking ride through the wooded hills around Jerusalem, taking a leisurely route to Tel Aviv via the BP switching station in Modi’in. Along for the ride was Dr. Barak Hershkovitz, the ophthalmologist who doubles as BP’s chief technical officer. I never got an eye exam, but I did learn quite a bit about the interface in the Fluence, which offers even more useful information than the Nissan Leaf (which shares its battery cells). Hershkovitz also pointed out the tall Jerusalem pines, proof that all of Israel isn’t desert.

The BP customer gets a range of options that include real-time range estimates, and the ability to plug in multiple destinations and come up with a pretty accurate guess (based on your previous driving performance) at what remaining range you’ll have at each point in your journey. “We looked at 1,600 possible driving scenarios, because it comes down to the fact that technology has to serve its users,” Hershkovitz said. “I asked, ‘Will my mother be able to do this?’” The computer mapped out the destinations as promised, but I messed up the calculations by ignoring the GPS and taking a wrong turn.

The swap station was fascinating, reminding me of the heavily robotized BMW factory I recently visited in Leipzig, Germany. The driver enters the business end of the car wash (excuse me, swap station) and hears various whirrings and clickings, including some compressor whine as the car is lifted up a few inches for optimal replacement angle. What the consumer doesn’t see is the extensive underground battery condo, capable of holding 16 packs (and with expansion capability to 32). Here's a look on video:


Two huge robot trolleys move the packs, the first one sliding out a new pack and moving it to a standby zone, and the second swooping in to drop off the depleted pack and slot the new one in place. The process takes about five minutes, slower than in a previous Tokyo demonstration. The Fluence’s pack is held in place with screws, replacing the quick-release latches.

This was my first encounter with a Renault Fluence, and I found it a delight to drive, not dissimilar to the Leaf itself. Others in our party complained of the high-mounted battery pack making the car feel top-heavy, but I thought it handled well. It’s a well-appointed and finished five-passenger sedan, and the only option for Israeli electric consumers now (though at least two other models are planned, BP says).

The Fluence isn’t a stand-alone design like the Leaf or the Chevy Volt, but it’s a comfortable and nicely built sedan that should prove attractive on the world market. The purchase price may not seem cheap, but it’s in line with similarly equipped gas cars in Israel, which fulfills Agassi’s mission of not forcing consumers to pay more to go electric.

BP has some challenges, as Agassi is the first to admit. Battery swapping is a destructive technology, with great potential but also some pitfalls. Company officials say the stations will be ready when there are a range of swappable battery packs on the market — the machinery is adaptable, they say. But multiple car models mean a more complicated battery inventory and the need to standardize connections. To be a success, BP will also have to convince large numbers of consumers to give up gas cars and go electric. The company says it will be happy to have 5,000 to 10,000 customers in Israel and Denmark over the next 24 months.

I pulled up to Better Place’s glitzy welcome center in Pi Glilot, near Tel Aviv, and plugged into one of the company’s charging points, which can accommodate two EVs. Unlike American stations, the consumer carries around the charging cord, and plugs in after swiping a smart card. By the time the party inside was over, the car was recharged. It felt like, if not an assured future, at least a bright vision of what the future could be.
I believe there was a newspaper report about the german automobile industry declining to participate in a test run of this technology a few years ago because "it would limit design options".
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by Simon_Jester »

As noted, Israel (and Denmark) are good candidates for a technology like this. It's trickier in more spread-out areas. And like you say, it's awkward if a company doesn't design its cars to accomodate such a system.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

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Cars are the least of our worries. If we seriously intend to phase out both nuclear AND fossil-fuel electrical power generation (as the general population wants to do, in their blissful ignorance of the difficulties involved), then we are stuck with power sources (primarily solar and wind) which don't necessarily generate power when we need it, or in sufficient quantity to meet peak demand. This means massive storage, and while gravitational potential energy is one idea that works fine in theory, there's a limit to how much of our countries we're willing to flood in order to create hydro-electric energy storage reservoirs.

Believe it or not, there are companies trying to use batteries to solve the problem (literally, traincar-sized batteries), at least on a localized scale. But of course, they run into the same issues we have with cars, only they hit the wall sooner.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by Sea Skimmer »

Pumped storage doesn't need to flood anything, if your willing to spend the money absurdly huge storage ponds could be created by building tidal power stations with higher then normal embankments so they can in effect create a super high tide. Since so many major cities and indeed most of the world population lives close to the coastline this could work out fairly well except in areas that lack shallow coasts. But deep coasts would work for the ocean thermal power concept anyway. Japan is also working on several different methods for creating underground systems, but that's pretty geology dependent, multiple levels of salt cavern are attractive. Underground thermal storage is also being worked on and might work out very nicely, after you waste a huge amount of energy for the first heating.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by Darth Wong »

Part of the problem is regionalism: even though one could imagine a system whereby regions with strong geothermal resources, regions with strong wind, regions with strong sunlight, and regions with access to tidal power all share resources for the benefit of all so that each region fills in the other region's weaknesses, there will always be a preference for local control and generation (and storage).
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by Sea Skimmer »

That was part of the logic of deregulating the electrical grid in the US, to encourage more long distance interdependence. Problem is that same model makes it impossible for electrical companies to muster the funds needed to implement really massive projects. That that actually ends up favoring wind and solar since both can be down at any scale you want, but of course it also heavily favors running existing coal plants as hard as possible since most of the cost is the load dependent fuel no matter how shitty the plant actually is.

I think the regional issue is of little actual concern at this point, the largest energy consumers are all very big countries, or else in the EU which has had a common power grid, since before the EU even exercises any real power.
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K. A. Pital
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by K. A. Pital »

Simon_Jester wrote:
Stas Bush wrote:In any case nuclear + electric power + public transport solve "problems" more efficiently than better batteries alone do.
Up to a point- but you can't really abolish the need for individual-driven vehicles that can travel anywhere-to-anywhere. If I don't live in a metropolitan center, if I have a job that requires me to move about freely, I need something equivalent to a car
Even without hypothetical future improvements test electric cars have hit over 300 km per one battery loading as of now. So if there's a real necessity for a car running trips longer than 100 kph a day, these will be made - in numbers demanded by the people who don't live in a metropolitan area. Or anywhere near a railway.
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Memnon
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by Memnon »

Simon_Jester wrote: And bad batteries would be the bane of the system, too- because this way they'd get passed around like a disease unless people exchanged them regularly.
And bad batteries would, you know, melt or blow up or any of a variety of unsafe things. In addition to getting really shitty mileage.

Now, you might think the solution is a lease system like the one previously mentioned. The problem is that this would naturally lead to a monopoly (at the very least, you'd have local monopolies, which would get very bad in more remote areas). You could have the government run all the battery exchange stations, but I don't think anyone wants that. Still, probably possible if you can get taxpayers to stomach it.
Darth Wong wrote:Part of the problem is regionalism: even though one could imagine a system whereby regions with strong geothermal resources, regions with strong wind, regions with strong sunlight, and regions with access to tidal power all share resources for the benefit of all so that each region fills in the other region's weaknesses, there will always be a preference for local control and generation (and storage).
Well, also the amount of power wasted by transmission with current grids is around 7%, at least in the US. Not like you can build Tres Amigas everywhere, and with the current grids moving around more power longer distances is going to raise transmission wastage.
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Re: Better Batteries Will Save the World...

Post by montypython »

Direct Carbon electric generation multi-fuel fuel cells would be best for a plug-in hybrid vehicle, since it eliminates a lot of the inefficiencies of IC engines and allows almost any hydrocarbon source for fuel.
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