Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Our government felt they are falling behind on their quota of stupid...
BBC wrote:31 August 2012 Last updated at 18:47 GMT
Armenia cuts ties with Hungary over Azerbaijan killer pardon

Armenia says it is severing diplomatic ties with Hungary after the release of an Azeri army officer convicted of murdering an Armenian soldier.

The Azeri serviceman, Ramil Safarov, was given a life sentence for hacking Armenian Gurgen Markarian to death with an axe in 2004 in Budapest.

On Friday, Safarov was flown to Baku and pardoned, despite Baku's assurances that his sentence would be enforced.

Armenia and Azerbaijan fought a bitter war over an enclave in the early 1990s.

Armenia said on Friday that Hungary had made a "grave mistake" in sending Safarov back to Azerbaijan.

"With their joint actions, Azerbaijan and Hungary opened the door to the recurrence of such crimes," President Serzh Sarkisian said in comments release by his press office.

"I cannot put up with this. The republic of Armenia cannot put up with this," the president added.

The Hungarian authorities said they had returned Safarov to his homeland only after receiving assurances from the Baku government that his sentence would be enforced.

Safarov killed Gurgen Markarian at a military academy in Budapest, where both servicemen attended English-language courses organised by Nato.

During his trial in Hungary, Safarov said that the Azeri-Armenian war over Nagorno-Karabakh and insults from the Armenian officer were at the root of his actions.

Hungary and Azerbaijan have so far made no public comment on the case.

Azerbaijan and Armenia, both former Soviet republics, fought a war over the Nagorno-Karabakh enclave in the early 1990s, which left some 30,000 people dead, and displaced hundreds of thousands.

Armenia-backed authorities are currently controlling Nagorno-Karabakh, which lies within Azerbaijan.

Despite a 1994 ceasefire, skirmishes continue on the borders of the disputed territory.
This was Friday,pretty much out of the blue for everyone, causing massive headdesks for everyone knowing a bit about Armenia and Azerbaijan. This caused riots in Yerevan, where the Hungarian flag has been ripped off from it's post and trampled on Saturday and burned on Sunday (a new national record IIRC). The general reaction of the world at large was some 'dude WTF?', even from the White House, within 12 hours (another new record). Armenian hackers cracked a few Azeri webpages and there were reports of clashes in Karabakh. The Hungarian Government started the usual frantic damage control attempts, right out of some bad comedy by claiming various interesting things, like it was legal according to international law(it wasn't), legal according to Hungarian law (it wasn't), it considers the case closed (and everybody consider it open). The possible reason behind the deal:
BBC wrote:3 September 2012 Last updated at 16:41 GMT
Azeri killer Ramil Safarov: Concern over Armenian anger

International criticism and concern has been growing following the release of a convicted murderer after his transfer from Hungary to Azerbaijan.

Russia condemned Azerbaijan's decision to pardon Ramil Safarov, who hacked an Armenian to death in Hungary in 2004.

Other groups called for calm and said the incident should not derail peace talks between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

However, Armenia's president said his country would be ready if war were to break out between the two.

President Serzh Sarkisian said, in quotes carried by the AFP news agency: "We don't want a war, but if we have to, we will fight and win. We are not afraid of killers, even if they enjoy the protection of the head of state."

At the weekend hundreds of Armenians protested outside Hungary's consulate in the capital Yerevan, burning Hungarian flags and pelted the mission with eggs.
Promoted

Ramil Safarov was given a hero's welcome on his return to Azerbaijan last week. As well as an official pardon from President Ilham Aliyev, he was promoted to the rank of major, given a flat and all the pay he had lost since his arrest eight years ago.

Russia, which has been involved in efforts to defuse the so-called frozen conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan, said: "We believe that these actions of Azerbaijani as well as Hungarian authorities contradict internationally brokered efforts, of the OSCE's Minsk group in particular, to ease tensions in the region."

The co-chairs of the Minsk group expressed their "deep concern and regret for the damage the pardon and any attempts to glorify the crime have done to the peace process and trust between the sides".

The European Union also called for calm.

Safarov killed Armenian soldier Gurgen Markarian at a military academy in Budapest in 2004, where both servicemen attended English-language courses organised by Nato.

During his trial in Hungary, Safarov said that the Azeri-Armenian war over Nagorno-Karabakh in the 1990s, and insults from the Armenian officer were at the root of his actions.
'No deal'

The Hungarian authorities said they had returned Safarov to his homeland only after receiving assurances from the Baku government that his sentence would be enforced.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban on Monday said his country acted within international law, and denied there was any secret deal with Baku.

Reuters had reported a week earlier that talks had been held over a loan from Azerbaijan to Hungary of 2-3 billion euros.

Azerbaijan and Armenia, both former Soviet republics, fought over the enclave of Nagorno-Karabakh in the early 1990s. The conflict left some 30,000 people dead and displaced hundreds of thousands.

Armenia-backed authorities currently control the region, which lies within Azerbaijan.

Despite a 1994 ceasefire, skirmishes continue on the borders of the disputed territory.
Bolding mine. Although both parties deny the existence of the loan proposal, it's a seems rather logical, because the Hungarian government screwed the economy big time and the only usual client who'd lend us money on for reasonably low rates are the IMF, who'll force Orbán to make policy changes, which make him look like the idiot. That's the best explanation, because even if it's true looks like Orbán was fooled by Alianov, making him the biggest loser of the year.

Notes:
- Yes, the professional foreign affairs people knew that if Safarov has been extradited to Azerbaijan, this will happen. That's why every extradition request by Azerbaijan has been shot down since 2006. They were either ignored, sidelined or replaced by Orbán and his closest bootlickers.
- as for Monday afternoon Russia sided with Armenia on the affair, which is about as surprising that water is wet. This won't be good for Hungary, because they managed to annoy Russia this summer when they pandered to the extreme right, by starting to favour nazi or nazi sympathizer writers in the education and getting behind a re-internment of one in Romania. This going to get interesting the next gas import deal from Russia ...
- Orbán practically isolated himself from the rest of the western world. The time they agreed on it with Alianov, he was on a diplomatic tour, visiting the only countries still willing to talk to him. Post soviet bastions of democracy in the Caucasus and Central Asia...
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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President Serzh Sarkisian said, in quotes carried by the AFP news agency: "We don't want a war, but if we have to, we will fight and win. We are not afraid of killers, even if they enjoy the protection of the head of state."
This is my favorite part. Between this kind of bombastic nationalism, Arab revolts, anarchist bombings, and Communists coming to power, the past few months' newspapers have read like something out of 1913.
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Welp, what would you expect? They only care about gorging themselves and their bootlickers on taxpayer money (something that I suspect has been more or less the same thing that every other party in power has done so far). They don't know how to actually run a country and they don't care to know. They aren't even good politicians, hence all the soap-opera drama every goddamn election. If they were, they would have not allowed the situation to escalate like this.

But I am guessing that Orbán doesn't really care as long as his people can suck taxpayer money away. Or worse, he cares and is genuinely so incompetent that he can only find new ways to drive this goddamn country into the ground.
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Man, Hungary these days.
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Classy. Not as classy as the new constitution, but still...

And... If that's really legal, why all the face-saving? :lol:
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Esquire wrote:
President Serzh Sarkisian said, in quotes carried by the AFP news agency: "We don't want a war, but if we have to, we will fight and win. We are not afraid of killers, even if they enjoy the protection of the head of state."
This is my favorite part. Between this kind of bombastic nationalism, Arab revolts, anarchist bombings, and Communists coming to power, the past few months' newspapers have read like something out of 1913.
Welcome to the Caucasus. The Armenian-Azarbaijanian conflict over Ngorno-Karabakh goes back to that time or bit earlier. And pretty much everyone got some demands grievances against every other neighbors to boot.
Zixinus wrote:Welp, what would you expect? They only care about gorging themselves and their bootlickers on taxpayer money (something that I suspect has been more or less the same thing that every other party in power has done so far). They don't know how to actually run a country and they don't care to know. They aren't even good politicians, hence all the soap-opera drama every goddamn election. If they were, they would have not allowed the situation to escalate like this.

But I am guessing that Orbán doesn't really care as long as his people can suck taxpayer money away. Or worse, he cares and is genuinely so incompetent that he can only find new ways to drive this goddamn country into the ground.
Orbán is an interesting figure. As long as like to give people with mental problems full control. He seems to have some kind of mental problems, but rebuilt his party in a way that everyone below him depends on him for his current and later positions. He selected his closest people because of their loyalty, not because of their professionalism. This shows everywhere.
Stas Bush wrote:Classy. Not as classy as the new constitution, but still...

And... If that's really legal, why all the face-saving? :lol:
Somebody dug out some law regarding extradition of criminals, from 1984. It's still in effect and according to that, what they did is illegal. Also, what do you expect, these are the clowns who try to bury things like this by claiming totally different or unrelated things every other day ... And because their dogma is that Orbán is infallible and always right. Admitting a mistake is a fatal weakness. So no surrender, no retreat!
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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People do seem to be a bit more angry that after the Lockerbie bomber got released a few years ago.
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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General Mung Beans wrote:People do seem to be a bit more angry that after the Lockerbie bomber got released a few years ago.
People would be angry even without the precedent of the Lockerbie bomber. Because the Hungarian Government willfully stirred up tensions in a volatile region for even less gain that BP had in Libya, for even less gain. It offended the Armenians and their customs to boot. And it looks like that the Azeris not just deny any deal regarding buying state bonds, but it'd be illegal to them and the countries do not have close enough ties that'd allow these kinds of transactions.

My personal opinion, that if the Azeris paid money, they most likely bought Orbán himself ...
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Esquire wrote:
President Serzh Sarkisian said, in quotes carried by the AFP news agency: "We don't want a war, but if we have to, we will fight and win. We are not afraid of killers, even if they enjoy the protection of the head of state."
This is my favorite part. Between this kind of bombastic nationalism, Arab revolts, anarchist bombings, and Communists coming to power, the past few months' newspapers have read like something out of 1913.
Where did anarchist bombings and communists rising to power happen recently?
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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General Mung Beans wrote:People do seem to be a bit more angry that after the Lockerbie bomber got released a few years ago.
He was dying of incurable prostate cancer, and also very possibly not guilty.
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Zaune wrote:
General Mung Beans wrote:People do seem to be a bit more angry that after the Lockerbie bomber got released a few years ago.
He was dying of incurable prostate cancer, and also very possibly not guilty.
Also as others mentioned, ANYTHING dealing with Armenians, Azerbaijanis and Nagorno-Kabarakh will generate IMMENSE butthurt. The Caucaus region has the same sort of mentality regarding ethnicity and tensions as the Balkans had - and anything could be interpreted as favoring one side and whatever angry response from the others.
folti78 wrote: - as for Monday afternoon Russia sided with Armenia on the affair, which is about as surprising that water is wet. This won't be good for Hungary, because they managed to annoy Russia this summer when they pandered to the extreme right, by starting to favour nazi or nazi sympathizer writers in the education and getting behind a re-internment of one in Romania. This going to get interesting the next gas import deal from Russia ...
- Orbán practically isolated himself from the rest of the western world. The time they agreed on it with Alianov, he was on a diplomatic tour, visiting the only countries still willing to talk to him. Post soviet bastions of democracy in the Caucasus and Central Asia...
Hopefully he gets a deal with Azerbaijani petrochemicals to replace Russian petrochemicals, if it comes to that.....
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Saxtonite wrote:Hopefully he gets a deal with Azerbaijani petrochemicals to replace Russian petrochemicals, if it comes to that.....
Maybe, really big maybe. But since the Hungarian petrol company (which bought back by the government last year at a few hundred million USD loss) quit Nabucco project this April, shipping the juice here will be an interesting undertaking ...

And now for something "different". FM Martonyi shows how to do diplomacy:
Politics.hu wrote:September 10th, 2012
Hungarian Foreign Minister says Safarov transfer “not an insult to Armenian people”
By MTI

Hungary’s recent transfer of Ramil Sahib Saharov to Azerbaijan was not aimed against Armenia and it cannot be considered as an insult to the Armenian people, Hungarian Foreign Minister Janos Martonyi said in a letter sent to his Armenian counterpart Eduard Nalbandian.

In his letter, released to MTI on Friday, Martonyi said that the transfer of Safarov, who was serving a life sentence for murdering an Armenian officer in Hungary, was in line with effective international regulations and Hungary’s practice in similar cases. Martonyi insisted that the transaction had been “purely of a legal nature”.

Martonyi voiced regret over Armenia’s suspending diplomatic ties with Hungary and referred to the traditional friendship between the two countries and the “Christian values connecting the two peoples for a thousand years”.

Suspending diplomatic relations could have such serious ramifications that would not serve the interests of Armenia, Martonyi said.

The foreign minister also expressed support for the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe in its efforts aimed at resolving the Azeri-Armenian tension through negotiations.

Concluding his letter, Martonyi assured his Armenian counterpart of Hungary’s unchanged interest in further developing ties with Armenia, and called for a bilateral effort to find a way of restoring friendly relations
Bolding mine. I can't think any single way Hungary can hurt Armenia or Armenian interests, except by harassing the Armenians living in Hungary. Did it with the Tibetians, when they practically fellated the visiting Chinese Premier for money last year. And received the same treatment as from Aliyev.

After more than a week PM Orbán explains it to the great unwashed:
Politics.hu again wrote:September 10th, 2012
Orbán: Gov’t decision to repatriate Azeri killer was “just”
By MTI

The government decision on the repatriation of the Azeri axe murderer was just, Prime Minister Viktor Orban said in parliament on Monday.

Orban said he rejected suggestions by the opposition Socialists that financial considerations were behind the government’s decision to transfer Ramil Safarov to his homeland.

He said the legal practice in Hungary “had always been and will remain so” to allow a sentenced person to complete their punishment at home if their home country requests this.

Orban said the government took into account considerations of international law and diplomacy.

The Socialists have called on the government to disclose all documents pertaining to Safarov’s transfer and the ombudsman asked for a comprehensive report.

Safarov, who had been sentenced to life imprisonment for killing an Armenian in Budapest in 2004, was transferred from Hungary to Azerbaijan on August 31. On arrival in Baku, he was pardoned by the president and released. Armenia suspended diplomatic relations with Hungary later that day.
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Well, it's one better than what he did by outright lying what the IMF asked/reccomends Hungary to do to make a deal (Órbán claimed that the IMF wants stuff like pension cuts, eradicating bank-taxes and so on). Then the goverment calls the letter sent by the IMF "secret". Only for the IMF not consider it secret and reveal that our big leader is lying through his teeth.

Or smoking weed. I actually wish he'd smoke weed. If we'd became the EU's first nation to openly sell weed, we'd probably recover the economy.

EDIT: A full article
Well, this may be a first in the annals of international financial diplomacy: Viktor Orbán just used his Facebook page to tell the IMF and EU that his government will walk away from bailout talks unless the fund drops certain demands it supposedly made in a letter leaked to the media earlier today.

While it’s hard right now to know what exactly is going on – Index.hu has just reported that the actual letter doesn’t include some of the demands supposedly made – one thing that is clear is that Orbán has decided not to allow his chief negotiator (former prime ministerial chief-of-staff Mihály Varga) any “quiet time” in talk with the country’s would-be saviors in the coming weeks, as was earlier expected.

Another thing that is quite clear is that, if the full list of supposed demands is real (and that’s still a pretty big “if,” since there would be a powerful motive to have it look like Budapest had wrangled a series of heroic concessions) the government will have a very, very hard time selling it to its supporters and other voters. Any one of the items on it (cutting pensions, scrapping the flat income tax and bank tax, introducing a value-based property tax) would be painful enough, politically-speaking, for the government to swallow, given the repeated assurances that no such measures would be taken. Taken together, it is hard to imagine a more epic humiliation.

The question is whether the government and the Hungarian people really have the stomach for another exhausting international confrontation – or “freedom fight,” if you prefer that way of looking at it – and one that could carry a very concrete price, in the form of a crashing forint, soaring interest rates and sudden, radical spending cuts? It’s hard to say, but one indication is that in his video Orbán himself didn’t look very enthusiastic. It may be a long, hot autumn…
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Zixinus wrote:Well, it's one better than what he did by outright lying what the IMF asked/reccomends Hungary to do to make a deal (Órbán claimed that the IMF wants stuff like pension cuts, eradicating bank-taxes and so on). Then the goverment calls the letter sent by the IMF "secret". Only for the IMF not consider it secret and reveal that our big leader is lying through his teeth.
You mean lying about the IMF again or just lying that week?
Or smoking weed. I actually wish he'd smoke weed. If we'd became the EU's first nation to openly sell weed, we'd probably recover the economy.
Sorry but these are not the side effects of smoking weed(skip to 0:53):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-g7XNeP7v9I[/youtube
Also the entire FIDESZ-KDNP branch are chock full of hypocrats and backward hardliners. They are big fan of the tough on crime standing (except when they are legalizing corruption and lining the pockets of the friendly oligarchs) and other obsolete stupidity. Just take a stroll on the net and look for tidbits and opinions of the last night parliament "debate" about the new legislation against spousal violence. The amount of barely concealed remarks saying women should git back to the kitchin' is staggering. Really, one douche said the the population is declining because of the womens emancipation and the liberal policies in the last 20 years (never mind that the population declined slowly ever since ~1920, except a short bump in the 1950s).

EDIT: the best from this douche:
Image
"maybe the mothers should go back to raising children, giving birth at least two-three but four-five is possible children and there spousal abuse wouldn't occur."
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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You mean lying about the IMF again or just lying that week?
Sort of both, but I just find the current example ridiculously audacious. It's as if they expect the western countries not to know Hungarian.
Sorry but these are not the side effects of smoking weed(skip to 0:53):
I don't get it, I'm afraid.
Also the entire FIDESZ-KDNP branch are chock full of hypocrats and backward hardliners.
To be honest, I'm just not surprised by now. When you expect stupidity, you can only be surprised if you expect any semblance of intelligence. Yeah, including the mental gymnastic trian-wreck about somehow having more children prevents spousal abuse.
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Re: Hungaran government shits on Karabakh conflict

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Zixinus wrote:Sort of both, but I just find the current example ridiculously audacious. It's as if they expect the western countries not to know Hungarian.
They practically ignore the outside reactions of their actions and abuse the IMF's and the EU's pretty mandatory apolitical standpoints. This is rather damning in case of IMF. They are the de-facto political punchbag in Hungary. This move was intended for domestic consumption and practically an easy way to prepare the public about the next round of austerity measures they're planning(because nothing else they can do) and mask them as IMF demands. So they deflect the blame to the IMF (who are not really trusted by the public thanks to the constant propaganda and their usual silence).
Sorry but these are not the side effects of smoking weed(skip to 0:53):
I don't get it, I'm afraid.
It looks like he's got Tardive Dyskinesia which is a side effect of long term antipshychotic drug treatments. Which is a rather good explanation about his schizophrenic political moves...
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