French Mohammed cartooons

[Aaron MkII]

God, fuck off with this shit. If all we're going to do as a society is mock and ridicule them, then don't be surprised that it feeds extremism. But actually doing something to bring them into the modern age, or improve their lives so they don't have to turn to religion as a coping mechanism doesn't let us be smug fucking shitheads.

Good. Fucking. Grief.

No wonder we don't get anywhere as a species.

[Col. Crackpot]

No Stark. We do not need to tolerate intolerance, and must not accept people who would casually murder randoms because the feelings of their invisible sky pixie got hurt. For fucks sake another thread full of apologists lining up to defend neanderthal homicidal thugs?

Who is apologizing for them, asshole? Not me. Not Stark. But I guess today is "React with kneejerk swiftness in a most retarded manner" day in adition to "Talk Like a Pirate" day. All I've suggested, and all Stark has suggested is that maybe when dealing with a snarling grizzly you don't throw peanuts at it?

shitty analogy. I saying that we need not restrict our lifestyle and freedoms based on the lowest common denominator.

[Alyeska]

Those damn blacks provoked poor whites into a murderous rage when they had the gall to date white women. If only they wouldn't do deliberately offensive things to provoke whites like that.

[Flagg]

No Stark. We do not need to tolerate intolerance, and must not accept people who would casually murder randoms because the feelings of their invisible sky pixie got hurt. For fucks sake another thread full of apologists lining up to defend neanderthal homicidal thugs?

Who is apologizing for them, asshole? Not me. Not Stark. But I guess today is "React with kneejerk swiftness in a most retarded manner" day in adition to "Talk Like a Pirate" day. All I've suggested, and all Stark has suggested is that maybe when dealing with a snarling grizzly you don't throw peanuts at it?

shitty analogy. I saying that we need not restrict our lifestyle and freedoms based on the lowest common denominator.

Who has? I mean Comedy Central has, because they are pussies. The difference is that that is comedy, what the assholes behind the film did, and they did it dishonestly, was essentially call the central holy figure of over a billion people a pedophile and a murderer. These are people that live in shit third world countries and all they have is their religion to turn to when shit gets rough. They also happen to be in a fucking midieval mindset about such matters. So yeah, maybe don't poke them with a stick? It's bad enough they get drone strikes and shitty dictators thanks to us.

[Col. Crackpot]

God, fuck off with this shit. If all we're going to do as a society is mock and ridicule them, then don't be surprised that it feeds extremism. But actually doing something to bring them into the modern age, or improve their lives so they don't have to turn to religion as a coping mechanism doesn't let us be smug fucking shitheads.

Good. Fucking. Grief.

No wonder we don't get anywhere as a species.

Missing the fucking point. We will NEVER get people out of the dark ages until we get them to challenge their pre conceived notions and beliefs. The baggage of freedom of speech is dealing with an asshole now and then. Thankfully in a free society we don't murder our assholes.

[Alyeska]

Any particular reason this got posted as a separate thread?

[Flagg]

Those damn blacks provoked poor whites into a murderous rage when they had the gall to date white women. If only they wouldn't do deliberately offensive things to provoke whites like that.

Right, because people in this thread are saying the actions of the murderers are justified. Jackoff.

[Alyeska]

Those damn blacks provoked poor whites into a murderous rage when they had the gall to date white women. If only they wouldn't do deliberately offensive things to provoke whites like that.

Right, because people in this thread are saying the actions of the murderers are justified. Jackoff.

No. People are blaming those exercising their free speech as having incited the violence of others.

I applied the exact same logic to race.

[Aaron MkII]

God, fuck off with this shit. If all we're going to do as a society is mock and ridicule them, then don't be surprised that it feeds extremism. But actually doing something to bring them into the modern age, or improve their lives so they don't have to turn to religion as a coping mechanism doesn't let us be smug fucking shitheads.

Good. Fucking. Grief.

No wonder we don't get anywhere as a species.

Missing the fucking point. We will NEVER get people out of the dark ages until we get them to challenge their pre conceived notions and beliefs. The baggage of freedom of speech is dealing with an asshole now and then. Thankfully in a free society we don't murder our assholes.

Yeah and we can't do that until they don't have to worry about dying from disease, some asshole warlord (or us) or any of the other things we take for granted.

But hey, lets all pat ourselves on the back for being better then them.

[Flagg]

Those damn blacks provoked poor whites into a murderous rage when they had the gall to date white women. If only they wouldn't do deliberately offensive things to provoke whites like that.

Right, because people in this thread are saying the actions of the murderers are justified. Jackoff.

No. People are blaming those exercising their free speech as having incited the violence of others.

I applied the exact same logic to race.

Ray did. Just him, and barely.

[Col. Crackpot]

Who has? I mean Comedy Central has, because they are pussies. The difference is that that is comedy, what the assholes behind the film did, and they did it dishonestly, was essentially call the central holy figure of over a billion people a pedophile and a murderer. These are people that live in shit third world countries and all they have is their religion to turn to when shit gets rough. They also happen to be in a fucking midieval mindset about such matters. So yeah, maybe don't poke them with a stick? It's bad enough they get drone strikes and shitty dictators thanks to us.

Boo fucking hoo. Doesn't mean they get to murder randoms. All those poor redneck folk have is Jesus, so Matthew Sheppard asked for it by being gay. You know because the gays make the baby Jesus cry.

[Col. Crackpot]

Any particular reason this got posted as a separate thread?

other than my high blood pressure pushing the wrong button, no. Sorry.

[Alyeska]

Threads merged.

[Flagg]

Who has? I mean Comedy Central has, because they are pussies. The difference is that that is comedy, what the assholes behind the film did, and they did it dishonestly, was essentially call the central holy figure of over a billion people a pedophile and a murderer. These are people that live in shit third world countries and all they have is their religion to turn to when shit gets rough. They also happen to be in a fucking midieval mindset about such matters. So yeah, maybe don't poke them with a stick? It's bad enough they get drone strikes and shitty dictators thanks to us.

Boo fucking hoo. Doesn't mean they get to murder randoms. All those poor redneck folk have is Jesus, so Matthew Sheppard asked for it by being gay. You know because the gays make the baby Jesus cry.

Listen you lying sack of shit, no one has said they agree with the murderers. So either knock the bullshit off, or shut the fuck up. Piece of shit.

[Col. Crackpot]

You stated that because these people are poor and ignorant and only have their religion that we should tolerate this shit and cater to them. I provided an example of why that is bullshit. Point fucking stands.

[Flagg]

You stated that because these people are poor and ignorant and only have their religion that we should tolerate this shit and cater to them. I provided an example of why that is bullshit. Point fucking stands.

I never once said we should tolerate it, or cater to it. I simply said we shouldn't intentionally provoke them knowing what their reaction will be.

[Zadius]

The issue with depicting Mohammed is you are not just offending the extremist. Even the more moderates would be extremely pissed and annoyed with the deliberate trolling.

Moderates will not be extremely pissed and annoyed because being extremely pissed is not a moderate reaction to a drawing. Just because some of the people who are angry are not violent does not make them moderate. If that were true, then Fred Phelps is a moderate.

The French government should threaten to remove protection for cartoonist who deliberately tries to stir shit up. Why should they have protection when their actions are threatening the lives of people working in embassies?

Giving a giant middle finger to fanatics who bully and intimidate you is trolling and trying to stir shit up? No, we need more magazines and newspapers publishing pictures of Mohammad, because giving in to intimidation is like paying a ransom: it only ensures that the behavior will continue. They should increase protection for the cartoonists because defending that freedom is one of the purposes of government power. Oh, I forgot, defending our freedom is only a catchphrase used to justify stupid wars, it doesn't actually mean we should defend our freedoms.

[Col. Crackpot]

You stated that because these people are poor and ignorant and only have their religion that we should tolerate this shit and cater to them. I provided an example of why that is bullshit. Point fucking stands.

I never once said we should tolerate it, or cater to it. I simply said we shouldn't intentionally provoke them knowing what their reaction will be.

What is your definition of provocation? Lets apply your logic to any of the racial, gender or sex-orientation movements of the past 60 years. If some hardcore civil rights/gay rights/gender equality protester attacks the sacred cow of their opposition they are not liable for the murder of those in their movement.

[SilverWingedSeraph]

Who has? I mean Comedy Central has, because they are pussies. The difference is that that is comedy, what the assholes behind the film did, and they did it dishonestly, was essentially call the central holy figure of over a billion people a pedophile and a murderer. These are people that live in shit third world countries and all they have is their religion to turn to when shit gets rough. They also happen to be in a fucking midieval mindset about such matters. So yeah, maybe don't poke them with a stick? It's bad enough they get drone strikes and shitty dictators thanks to us.

And capitulating and saying "sure, we'll let you use violence to silence free speech" is how you would handle it? What middle ground is there between "you're free to say whatever you want about anything, including religion" and "except you can't say mean things about Islam ever, because those people might get violent!"

Also, Mohammed literally was a pedophile, so if they're gonna get upset over things, they should at least not get upset at shit in their own holy book. He fucked a 9 year old girl. I don't know how you get more pedo than that.

Perhaps the problem is not saying mean things about Islam, but not saying enough. We really just need to flood the world with mockery of Islam. Then they'll either need to riot 24/7 or get the fuck over it. I don't believe this "they're poor and primitive and their savage little brains can't take people saying mean things about their precious religion" bullshit, and I can't believe you fucking idiots who are saying it believe it either. The vast majority of Muslims and people in these countries are not stupid savages, and these assholes doing the rioting do not speak for them, and we should not cave into violent extremists who want to silence free speech. Ever.

Yeah and we can't do that until they don't have to worry about dying from disease, some asshole warlord (or us) or any of the other things we take for granted.

But hey, lets all pat ourselves on the back for being better then them.

What the fuck are you saying? Until we... what, lift them up and give them tons of money, we just have to accept people in these nations acting like idiots? No, fuck off, you're part of the problem. You're literally saying "those savages can't help themselves, we need to do X and Y to help them because they're too primitive and stupid." No, they're not. You're a fucking moron.

[Flagg]

You stated that because these people are poor and ignorant and only have their religion that we should tolerate this shit and cater to them. I provided an example of why that is bullshit. Point fucking stands.

I never once said we should tolerate it, or cater to it. I simply said we shouldn't intentionally provoke them knowing what their reaction will be.

What is your definition of provocation? Lets apply your logic to any of the racial, gender or sex-orientation movements of the past 60 years. If some hardcore civil rights/gay rights/gender equality protester attacks the sacred cow of their opposition they are not liable for the murder of those in their movement.

For fucks sake, again you lying troll piece of garbage? Listen, you dumb motherfucker I'll put it as plainly as I can: When people disparage Mohammed, other people die. This is a fact now. Does the fact that the people doing the killing are poor, subject to collateral damage at any time, and often under the direct rule of asshole dictators appointed by us excuse them? No, and no sane person in this thread has said it does. We are simply saying, when you have a pissed off polar bear you don't throw shit at it because if you do, you know very bad things will happen. Likely to someone alot closer to the bear than you are. So criticism of the people making the videos and criticism of the assholes who raided an embassy are not mutually exclusive.

Fucking Americans, man. Assholes, the lot of us.

[Col. Crackpot]

For fucks sake, again you lying troll piece of garbage? Listen, you dumb motherfucker I'll put it as plainly as I can: When people disparage Mohammed, other people die. This is a fact now. Does the fact that the people doing the killing are poor, subject to collateral damage at any time, and often under the direct rule of asshole dictators appointed by us excuse them? No, and no sane person in this thread has said it does. We are simply saying, when you have a pissed off polar bear you don't throw shit at it because if you do, you know very bad things will happen. Likely to someone alot closer to the bear than you are. So criticism of the people making the videos and criticism of the assholes who raided an embassy are not mutually exclusive.

Fucking Americans, man. Assholes, the lot of us.

Again your analogy is shit we are going nowhere.

[ray245]

The issue with depicting Mohammed is you are not just offending the extremist. Even the more moderates would be extremely pissed and annoyed with the deliberate trolling.

The French government should threaten to remove protection for cartoonist who deliberately tries to stir shit up. Why should they have protection when their actions are threatening the lives of people working in embassies?

Because they are human beings simply excersising their right to freedom of speech? Even if unwisely?

No one is saying we should remove their rights to freedom of speech, nor am I saying the actions of those Islamic extremist are justified.

If making such satire will result in violence and possibly death of others, then the government have make a point to anyone being deliberately provocative. Why should the cartoonist have special protection over any other westerner who are living in the middle east? Are you going to tell me that the cartoonist is in no way responsible for the harms of others?

Giving a giant middle finger to fanatics who bully and intimidate you is trolling and trying to stir shit up? No, we need more magazines and newspapers publishing pictures of Mohammad, because giving in to intimidation is like paying a ransom: it only ensures that the behavior will continue. They should increase protection for the cartoonists because defending that freedom is one of the purposes of government power. Oh, I forgot, defending our freedom is only a catchphrase used to justify stupid wars, it doesn't actually mean we should defend our freedoms.

Except the people who are attacking the embassies aren't even bullying or threatening you until you provoke them! Many of those places have a increase in respect for Western countries because the western nations were supporting the people during the Arab Spring.

All the effort to moderate the rise of Islamic influence in the newly formed governments post-Arab Springs will come to nil thanks to all the provocation of some idiots who want to stroke their sense of ego.

The ONLY thing we have to gain by such acts of provocation is to somehow stroke your sense of ego about how awesome you are by exercising your right to freedom of speech. There is nothing positive about abusing your rights in such a manner.

[Aaron MkII]

What the fuck are you saying? Until we... what, lift them up and give them tons of money, we just have to accept people in these nations acting like idiots? No, fuck off, you're part of the problem. You're literally saying "those savages can't help themselves, we need to do X and Y to help them because they're too primitive and stupid." No, they're not. You're a fucking moron.

No actually I'm not you shit eating fuck head, I'm saying we help them, we don't have to accept the violence but sitting here and feeling smug doesn't help.

So again, help, yeah we can condemn the violence but we should still do what we can.

But go on putting words in my mouth you worthless piece of fucking shit.

[mr friendly guy]

I hope those people crying out freedom of speech realise that while France allows the magazine to publish satirical drawings, it DOES NOT allow protests against the film.

Linky

France to ban prophet film protests
Wednesday, September 19, 2012 - 10:03 AM

France’s prime minister said today that a planned demonstration by people angry over a film produced in the United States which insults the Prophet Mohammed will not be allowed to go ahead.

Jean-Marc Ayrault said organisers of Saturday’s protest against the film Innocence Of Muslims will not receive police authorisation.

Mr Ayrault told French radio RTL today: “There’s no reason for us to let a conflict that doesn’t concern France come into our country. We are a republic that has no intention of being intimidated by anyone.”

A wave of protest has swept some Muslim countries over the amateurish video posted online. The total number of deaths linked to unrest over the film is at least 28.

I find it ironic they don't want a conflict that "doesn't concern France" to come into their country (fair enough) yet this is what is happening when they draw satirical cartoons.

Rank hypocrisy anyone?

Edit - just for the record, satirical cartoons do not justify murder. Most of the blame goes to the murderers, but sometimes your attempt to confront their extremism is counterproductive, but at least you had some high goals. However you can't cry freedom of speech, yet at the same time deny it to anti film protesters.

[Zadius]

I once got punched in the mouth by a school bully for calling him out for being a jackass. I knew he had violent tendencies, so I guess I was just trolling huh? What an instigating shit stirrer I was!