Death, The afterlife, and what you Believe

[Crossroads Inc.]

SO, it goes without saying that many of use here do not exactly have much faith in "Faith"
We often question, criticizes, mock and ridicule most organized religions. Indeed many of us are full on Atheists.
We don't believe in an afterlife anymore then we believe in the Tooth-fairy...

But let us suppose...

The end has come, your mortality has expired, and suddenly you find you soul before Death.
Not too judge you, or sentence you, but mearly make sure your soul "Moves on"
Death does not care if you goto a Heaven, Hell, Reincarnate, or goto a hall with fighting, singing and Quaffing for all eternity... Just so long as you go somewhere, and something you BELIEVE In.

Well I was raised catholic, but I sure as heck don't believe in any catholic dogma anymore.
I Tell people I am a "Pastafarian" but that is more a joke religion, what you join when you stop believing in everything else.
If I was faced with eternity, and asked what do I really BELIEVE in? I am not sure I know the answer.

What about the rest of you?

[Lagmonster]

"Believe" is a wierd word in this context. Do you mean it as in, "I believe that leprechauns exist", or as "I believe in world peace"? In the former case, my beliefs are irrelevant - there is just reality. If reality includes an anthropomorphic personification of Death, then believing otherwise doesn't change that.

Now, if he's asking my soul to go somewhere that I have a strong emotional preference for, and he has magical powers to put me anywhere, I believe I would prefer to come back to earth as a Highlander-type immortal. Because I believe in being here to help my family and my friends, I believe in being a part of human effort and change. It's more exciting than purposeless bliss (of course, being a nigh-invulnerable god in that context is just cushioning for the ego).

[Spekio]

Well, if I have to go "somewhere", dependent on belief, then it would be the nothing after death.
Spoiler

[Eternal_Freedom]

If I was able to chose what to "believe", I would probably go with reincarnation. It makes a lot more sense than most western faiths that give you one chance. Reincarnation means you just keep getting better and better each life.

As for what I realy believe? I would like to think there is something beyond death, some way to continue. But if oblivion is all there is, then I'd have to tell Death so be it and walk into darkness with my head held high.

[Imperial528]

Is "Send me back damn it." an acceptable answer?

And if death really is so stubborn that it is not, I'll tell it that I'm not leaving and if I really have to "move on", then I'll be sure to get up once I get back down there and move on from the whole damn incident.

Because quite frankly, I don't believe in any form of afterlife. I believe* in life, and therefore, death is to be avoided and prevented at any and all opportunity.

*Mostly in the factual sense, but every so often I'm in a spiritual mood and you get the spiritual stuff in there sometimes.

[Hillary]

Not quite sure I understand the question.

It appears to be "Yes, I know you don't believe in an afterlife but, if you did, what would it be?"

Is it what I would want to believe or what I find the most likely option if there were such a thing as an afterlife?

If the former, Valhalla sounds kinda fun. If the latter, I think the options are all as implausible as each other.

[Eternal_Freedom]

Damn, should have mentioned Valhalla was my second choice if reincarnation was not possible? An eternal party alternating with mindless drunken violence? Yup.

[Crossroads Inc.]

"Believe" is a wierd word in this context. Do you mean it as in, "I believe that leprechauns exist", or as "I believe in world peace"? In the former case, my beliefs are irrelevant - there is just reality. If reality includes an anthropomorphic personification of Death, then believing otherwise doesn't change that.

Now, if he's asking my soul to go somewhere that I have a strong emotional preference for, and he has magical powers to put me anywhere, I believe I would prefer to come back to earth as a Highlander-type immortal. Because I believe in being here to help my family and my friends, I believe in being a part of human effort and change. It's more exciting than purposeless bliss (of course, being a nigh-invulnerable god in that context is just cushioning for the ego).

Well to claify, in this case Belief does matter.
A small child can 100% believe in Santa Clause, even though he doesn't exist. But because he totally believes, he could go to some Santa clause based paradise.

This whole '"What if" question came from reading stories of the 'Discworld' Death. Often people who die find themselves going to quite different places because of what the believe vs what they are taught. One person who was a teacher, thought he would go to a sort of Library afterlife, but when he died, he found what he really Believed in was being a hero, helping others, standing up for yourself. He ended up going to a sort of Hero's afterlife with lots of fun and parties.

In this case, I think it would "be cool" if I went to some paradise or got cool magic powers. But I don't believe that. Likewise I doubt you in your heart of hearts believe you are going to become some sort of Immortal and go back to Earth.
I spent a great deal of last night asking myself this and came to the conclusion that what I believe in is mostly Myself. There are many other things out there, Science, Reason and all things that come from the creative mind (music,art,literature).

When I asked my Dad this question, a very outspoken Atheist, he gave a response similar to Eternal_Freedom, where he said he would simply going into nothing. For him it was more important what he left behind in his life then anything after it.

Really I guess the question doesn't even have to be about afterlife itself, but those things you believe in with the same feeling and intensity.

[Lord Damos]

I have always looked at it from more of a scientific perspective. Following the laws of conservation everything that we are and makes up our "being" is only converted to another state and used in another way. Or you can take a look at Mark Twain's short story "Captain Stormfield's Visit to Heaven".

[Lagmonster]

Well to claify, in this case Belief does matter. A small child can 100% believe in Santa Clause, even though he doesn't exist. But because he totally believes, he could go to some Santa clause based paradise.

Okay, first off, that's wierd. A kid that believes earnestly in the existence of Santa Claus doesn't necessarily make the jump to believing he would spend eternity with the guy post-life. Asking what you believe in isn't the same thing as asking how you should be made to exist. I believe that it's right to help the poor, and you won't change my mind on it, but I don't donate to any such charities. I wouldn't want an eternity of endlessly helping the poor just because it turned out that it was somehow my most sincerely held belief; within a short while I'd actively refuse to help any more poor people. People have wants and needs that mean as much to their motivation as their convictions or opinions.

This whole '"What if" question came from reading stories of the 'Discworld' Death. Often people who die find themselves going to quite different places because of what the believe vs what they are taught. One person who was a teacher, thought he would go to a sort of Library afterlife, but when he died, he found what he really Believed in was being a hero, helping others, standing up for yourself. He ended up going to a sort of Hero's afterlife with lots of fun and parties

Here's the problem; if I honestly believe that only what is real matters, and I'm talking to the actual personification of death about my fate, I'm not going to stick with "I believe there is no continuity of consciousness after death", because that's already been proven false. The circumstances of your question specifically fucks up naturalists by demonstrating a supernatural aspect to consciousness.

I have no idea what your Death would do; I wouldn't just cease existing, because the existence of the soul disproves my current - and obviously voluntarily flexible - belief that the natural universe is all that exists. I wouldn't pass on to any afterlife, because up until the moment where the evidence presents itself, I wouldn't have any pre-held beliefs in an afterlife. I figure Death's only option would be to send me back to earth in my present human form, because being here is the only conscious existence it could be said I "believe" I will experience.

Also, I don't buy any one of these twits who say that they would stare into the grinning magical face of death and insist that they had to be obliterated because they didn't earnestly believe in the afterlife that they were currently standing in; that would require an absolutely stunning amount of denial on their parts.

I spent a great deal of last night asking myself this and came to the conclusion that what I believe in is mostly Myself. There are many other things out there, Science, Reason and all things that come from the creative mind (music,art,literature).

If this is just a form of self-assurance, then fine. It's one thing to affirm to yourself that you don't believe in an afterlife. It's another to say that, if faced with the existence of a whole laundry list of themed afterlives, you still wouldn't believe in an afterlife.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I suppose if Death sends me to some afterlife that somehow reflects my core, heartfelt beliefs, then I would be turned into some sort of abstract being that can travel anywhere in the universe, spatially and temporally, at a whim. Because I don't have any spiritual beliefs, but the closest I feel to true religious "inspiration" or whatever the hell you want to call it is when I consider the size and scope of the universe, and how hideously unknowable it all is.

And honestly, I'm fine with that. I would be pretty assuring to know that after I die I can truly learn what there is out there.

[Darth Wong]

I find it hard to imagine someone being entirely comfortable with disappearing into oblivion. I love life and I want more of it. So if I were standing before some weird super-being who tells me that he can send me anywhere, I'd like to come right back again.

Of course, if I had my choice, I'd prefer to come back in similar form: as a genetically healthy privileged male in a first-world country who is destined to marry a hot wife.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I find it hard to imagine someone being entirely comfortable with disappearing into oblivion. I love life and I want more of it. So if I were standing before some weird super-being who tells me that he can send me anywhere, I'd like to come right back again.

Of course, if I had my choice, I'd prefer to come back in similar form: as a genetically healthy privileged male in a first-world country who is destined to marry a hot wife.

Oblivion is not something I particularly relish, my original point was that I'd opt for reincarnation or Valahlla, but if it had t o be oblivion, then so be it.

[Alyrium Denryle]

I think what I really believe in, the idea that brings tears to my eyes is something like this (You will need to combine the two central ideas):





What belief in this--whole hearted acceptance of the interconnectedness and sameness of all life on earth and a belief in a cosmic future for humanity--would get me in the afterlife I dont know. But there it is.

[Max]

I don't believe in an afterlife. However, if I were to choose one I'd want to spend eternity as conscious energy zipping from one galaxy to the next and witnessing what other life is out there.

Reincarnation sounds nifty too, as long as I'm reincarnated as something similar or better I suppose. My luck I'd come back as this:

[Luke Skywalker]

I find it hard to imagine someone being entirely comfortable with disappearing into oblivion. I love life and I want more of it. So if I were standing before some weird super-being who tells me that he can send me anywhere, I'd like to come right back again.

As much as none of us want oblivion, I don't think any of us truly want the heaven depicted in most religions either, or the reincarnation you mention. Skipping around idyllic green gardens with all your desires provided to you would be great...for the first few centuries. Maybe even longer. But an eternity of consciousness of any sort is simply inconceivable. Boredom can't be held back forever.

And there's also the nagging voice reminding you that many of your family, friends and non-believers will suffer unbearable pain for the rest of eternity. Of course, this is all assuming that we receive human minds, and god/shiva/lord apollo doesn't genetically remove our knowledge of hell and capability of boredom.

[Garlak]

But if you can choose your fate, you can choose someplace other than the "heaven depicted in most religions" and avoid "skipping around idyllic green gardens with all your desires provided to you."

You can specify a place where that would not be the case. Where you would not grow bored.

Instead of gratification, the focus could be on excitement and participation and involvement. Of always having something to do, and having that thing be awesome.

Or simply being unable to feel boredom.


And, again, if you can choose your fate post-death... Why wouldn't you also choose to be with the people you love and care for?

Instead of declining because you wouldn't want your family to suffer forever in hell, why not realize that you are the one responsible here? The one with power, the one with choice?

You don't want to be separated from your loved ones? Then you won't be. You don't want to be in HappyHappyFunFun Land while they're condemned to hell? Then you'll get to be able to spend time with them.

If you'd rather take oblivion because you don't want heaven because you think everybody else goes to hell... Well, in this scenario, it sounds like it might be a self-fulfilling outcome. YOU are the one who thinks they'll go to hell. You're the one sending them there. Subconsciously. You are then consciously deciding that you don't agree with a universe that would send them to hell, so you'd rather not have to deal with it, and commit suicide.


If there's life after death, then I would (in a certain manner) treat it as life. I would not say "Nah, I've had enough. I don't want this" because I would not do that in life, barring suicidal depression.

This is just a continuation of life. That means the biological lifespan of a human body is nothing more than a arbitrary amount of time; it's not some innate "you only deserve to have this much time in existence." It's not a quota.

Nobody, while alive, would pick an arbitrary number and philosophically declare that it is bad to live longer then that. Nobody reasonable would say "Well... I'd really like to live more. And have fun and all that. But I've reached the age of 40 and, well, you're just not supposed to live longer than that. Who am I to say otherwise?" There would be extenuating circumstances and reasons for such a decision -- but, all other things being equal, somebody who enjoys life wold keep on living.

So if you think of this afterlife as... a just life, then seeking to end it becomes silly. It becomes like suicide.


But I suppose when it came to considering an afterlife, I always approached the question as being "What do you want?" That's it. "Well, I wouldn't want that because it would mean..." would get discarded because it's all about what I want; not about dealing with unwanted extras or conditions.

[Ahriman238]

I sort of like the idea of having forever to spend with my loved ones, improve myself intellectually and spiritually, and help the galaxies spin or somesuch.

Better still the afterlife that lets me do all of that AND drop by ol' Earth sometimes to help people out of a jam, or just to visit.

[DarkArk]

Make me a god. Give me a reality that I could shape into whatever I could think up. If I want to experience the world of Warhammer 40k, let me. Play around with alternate histories, try my life over a few times seeing how different choices would have played themselves out, live out different fantasies, basically just give me a large cosmic sandbox to play around with.

I'd probably then spend several centuries going back and just observing history.

I know that I wouldn't want another life as the pitiful and weak human that I've been in this one.

I'm of the opinion that if there is oblivion after we die, we never would have experienced living in the first place. For those of you who have been blacked out drunk, life would have simply been a long continuation of that. If our minds truly ended, then we never would have experienced them in the first place. But that's just me spouting metaphysical bullshit for which I have no solid evidence.

[Scrib]

If I could choose who I would be if I was reincarnated and I could keep my memories...sure. If I couldn't have either of those conditions I'd take oblivion. Why would I want to risk coming back as a peasant? And if I don't have my memories then I'm already dead right?

Honestly the only idea that particularly appeals to me is being able to watch the universe and life bloom, but I bet even that would become boring without the ability to actively interfere.

You can specify a place where that would not be the case. Where you would not grow bored.

Well, that's convenient . Don't mind if I do. If I can get rid of boredom I'd probably also want to get rid of the need to interfere.

[Purple]

I would take oblivion to be perfectly honest. And not just because I actively disbelieve any sort of life after death. To put it bluntly, there is something strangely comforting in knowing that no mater how good or bad, easy or hard your life was at the end it just goes away and the universe continues as if you have newer been. Know what I mean?

[Garlak]

I would take oblivion to be perfectly honest. And not just because I actively disbelieve any sort of life after death. To put it bluntly, there is something strangely comforting in knowing that no mater how good or bad, easy or hard your life was at the end it just goes away and the universe continues as if you have newer been. Know what I mean?

If that sense of continuation-of-universe is what you want... then why not ask for perfect and total isolation?

That would meet the requirement of "being comforted in knowing that the universe continues on."

You can have proof that the universe continues on without you, eventually leaving you behind and obliterating all traces of you. You can watch it happen. You can watch as the life of the universe comes to an end, people, matter, stars, galaxies and all... all eventually fading. You could watch until the end of the universe.


Whereas if you choose oblivion, you're not really "being comforted that the universe continues to go on without you" because you're not feeling anything. You're not existing.