Status of Puerto Rico: Which would you choose?

[Force Lord]

First off, some info to enlighten yourselves here. It's Wikipedia, so take it with a grain of salt.

As we all know, the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico is currently an non-incorporated territory of the United States with a significant measure of self-government, but sovereignty is vested in Congress. The Puerto Ricans have viewed their current status as still retaining colonial trappings, but can't agree on which alternative is better. Almost half the population (represented by the Popular Democratic Party) wants a continuation of the Commonwealth or, more recently, that it be given greater powers, with Congress conceding some sovereignty to the Commonwealth of PR. Another near half of the population (with their voice in the New Progressive Party) wants the US to just fully annex the island and turn it into the 51st state of the Union. A vocal minority (expressed most prominently in the Puerto Rican Independence Party, though other movements exist) advocates the US giving complete independence to PR, though there is the issue of losing US citizenship and free access to US markets. There's also the option of free association, in the basis of the Compact of Free Association granted by the US to a few of its Pacific island territories.

So the question I'm asking SDN is which status alternative should Puerto Rico go for? Please explain why.

PS: Hello SDN, it's been a while. Been very busy at uni lately, so having time to post is not common.

[Mr Bean]

51st state is the way to go. Being an American state can be a problem in some times but ask Hawaii what a great deal being a remote American state is when it comes to aid. Not to mention that the new state would instantly have a huge in with their two senators being able to instantly upset the Senate. But having Representatives mixed in means new districts for pretty much every state (Unless they finally uncap the 435 limit) so more turbulence there. Not to mention becoming a state means much closer attention from both parties and I'm guessing a uptick in tourism because lets face it. We Americans are ignorant of lots of stuff and Geography is our greatest downfall right after History, Politics, all languages that are not English and Math.

On the flip side they could go independent, and become another country our rich people use to hide their money and instantly start being exploited by America and start being helped. It's not like they want to try some new form of government or have some special needs. Culturally they are American, in governmental they are American. They've been treated as the 51st state for a long time now the only thing they lose is the independence option once they join. This is nothing but a win/win for both sides.

*Edit
And think of the increased sales from Chinese businesses to make tiny 51 star American flags.

[Col. Crackpot]

The status quo is unacceptable. Because quite frankly all American citizens should be subject to federal taxes. That applies to Samoa and the USVI as well. Accept statehood or go form your own country. Let it be up to the residents of the respective territories to decide, but no more of this fence sitting.

[Haruko]

Statehood will give them the full rights they should have in the first place.

Puerto Ricans will be voting on the issue in November. I am far more interested in that than the presidential election.

[Broomstick]

I don't know why the status quo is so unacceptable to you,Col. Crackpot - it seems to have been pretty stable for the past few decades (I am aware there have been serious problems/protests in the past). I don't see the US being harmed by the arrangement, and while some Puerto Ricans clearly want something different the relationship isn't that bad for them, either.

As for their status? Clearly, that is something for the people of Puerto Rico to decide. So far, votes on the matter have opted for the status quo (with significant minorities wanting something else). When the majority of Puerto Ricans want something else, either full independence or to be a US state, I say give it to them.

[Terralthra]

I don't know why the status quo is so unacceptable to you,Col. Crackpot - it seems to have been pretty stable for the past few decades (I am aware there have been serious problems/protests in the past). I don't see the US being harmed by the arrangement, and while some Puerto Ricans clearly want something different the relationship isn't that bad for them, either.

As for their status? Clearly, that is something for the people of Puerto Rico to decide. So far, votes on the matter have opted for the status quo (with significant minorities wanting something else). When the majority of Puerto Ricans want something else, either full independence or to be a US state, I say give it to them.

Having no say in the Federal government is pretty unacceptable to me, morally. Much as the District of Columbia deserves some (small) say.

[Sea Skimmer]

Federal spending in Puerto Rico keeps rising, and its going to keep rising. They need to become a state or else go independent, now. I'm okay with the idea that the state would still be a net consumer of federal dollars even after federal taxes are applied, but not everyone on the damn island is poor and unable to pay income tax. Were talking about consumption to the tune of several hundred billion dollars just in the next ten years. Money like that matters.

[Force Lord]

Federal spending in Puerto Rico keeps rising, and its going to keep rising. They need to become a state or else go independent, now. I'm okay with the idea that the state would still be a net consumer of federal dollars even after federal taxes are applied, but not everyone on the damn island is poor and unable to pay income tax. Were talking about consumption to the tune of several hundred billion dollars just in the next ten years. Money like that matters.

Well, our government is hilariously ineffective and corrupt. Our Department of Education alone gobbles up a huge amount of federal money. And no appreciable improvement is seen.

[mingo]

I lived in Puerto Rico for a year and a half, and while it's been some time ago, the politics of the place seem pretty entrenched. That is to say that I find it VERY hard to believe that a "near half" of the population favors statehood. Well I was there it was something like 85% (the Democrats) to remain a Commonwealth, 14.999% (the Republicans) for statehood, and the remainder independence (at that time, mostly communists, or at least that what the US government said).

The reason for the wide disparity is not hard to figure out. The choice is you can have statehood and gain 1, maybe 2 Reps in the House and 2 Senators, and have your vote in Presidential elections count, but for the privilege, you have to pay federal income tax, what would you do?

For some reason, politicians, usually Republicans here in the States, occasionally go off on a attempt to build their "Legacy" by being the one to usher PR in as the 51st state, Ford did it, I think McCain made noises about it in 2008. Both of them should have researched it more before shoot off their mouths because both effort fell on deaf ears on the island, and died nearly instantly.

In short Puerto Rician statehood with happen just before peace in the middle east.

[Force Lord]

I lived in Puerto Rico for a year and a half, and while it's been some time ago, the politics of the place seem pretty entrenched. That is to say that I find it VERY hard to believe that a "near half" of the population favors statehood. Well I was there it was something like 85% (the Democrats) to remain a Commonwealth, 14.999% (the Republicans) for statehood, and the remainder independence (at that time, mostly communists, or at least that what the US government said).

The reason for the wide disparity is not hard to figure out. The choice is you can have statehood and gain 1, maybe 2 Reps in the House and 2 Senators, and have your vote in Presidential elections count, but for the privelage, you have to pay federal income tax, what would you do?

If the pro-statehood isn't supposedly that powerful in your eyes, how does that explain the NPP? They're the pro-statehood party, and they're the other mainstream party alongside the pro-commonwealth PDP. They've governed PR in 1969-1973, 1977-1985, 1993-2001, and were elected again in 2009. We're currently in an election year here in PR, so we could look at another 4 years of NPP rule if the PDP doesn't win instead.

BTW, the last referendum (there's a new one that will be done this November) saw a 71.3% turnout, which had 50.5% vote for "none of the above" (because the PDP, the pro-Commonwealth party, complained that the definition of "territorial commonwealth" on the ballot was too narrow and encouraged its voters to vote "none of the above"), 46.6% for statehood, and the rest split between independence (2.6%) and free association (0.3%), with the "territorial commonwealth" option receiving virtually nothing (0.0%).

EDIT: Though I agree, the US accepting PR as the 51st state is about as likely as the US cutting off aid to Israel. Not to mention, how would the rest of the world respond?

[mingo]

EDIT: Though I agree, the US accepting PR as the 51st state is about as likely as the US cutting off aid to Israel. Not to mention, how would the rest of the world respond?

Obviously there's been some political shifting about that I had thought impossible based on my time there back when the independence folks where shooting shit up. It was my impression however that the hold up to statehood was the acceptance of Puerto Ricians, not of the US.

[mingo]

Of course I can't speak for everyone in the states, personally if Puerto Rico asks to become a state, I'm onboard to take them in, If they don't, also fine. I'm even ok with independence as long as it's done by voting not shooting.

[Broomstick]

EDIT: Though I agree, the US accepting PR as the 51st state is about as likely as the US cutting off aid to Israel. Not to mention, how would the rest of the world respond?

I don't understand why you think there is some sort of reluctance on the part of the US to accept PR as state #51. If the island, in a fair election, voted for statehood I personally don't see any sort of political obstacle. Most Americans either don't care either way, or, in the case of the more extreme nationalists, would welcome another state as a validation of their view of the US being so fantastic everyone wants to join.

As mingo said, what's keeping PR a commonwealth and not a state is on the PR side.

[Lonestar]

EDIT: Though I agree, the US accepting PR as the 51st state is about as likely as the US cutting off aid to Israel. Not to mention, how would the rest of the world respond?

I think most Gringo-Americans assume that Puerto Rico is going to be #51, I doubt it's that unlikely from a popular viewpoint.

[Col. Crackpot]

EDIT: Though I agree, the US accepting PR as the 51st state is about as likely as the US cutting off aid to Israel. Not to mention, how would the rest of the world respond?

I think most Gringo-Americans assume that Puerto Rico is going to be #51, I doubt it's that unlikely from a popular viewpoint.

Indeed i think most of us would just shrug our shoulders and say 'about time'. Isn't the issue with Puerto Ricans themselves consistently choosing 'none of the above' and the local Political powers-that-be promising that people can have their cake and eat it too? Politics down there makes Chicago look like Mayberry RFD.

[Force Lord]

I was more saying about Congress. The Dems and a very few Republicans could accept it, but most of the GOP? With the Tea Party controlling things? And with them threatening filibuster to anything Obama and the Dems propose?

Though our continual indecision on the matter is infuriating to me. Almost makes me wish Washington would get its shit together and shout to our politicians and people "Just decide already or else!" so PR gets off its ass and choose for real.

EDIT: Though if the US is willing to accept us as a state, then no problems here.

[General Mung Beans]

I was more saying about Congress. The Dems and a very few Republicans could accept it, but most of the GOP? With the Tea Party controlling things? And with them threatening filibuster to anything Obama and the Dems propose?

The pro-statehood party in PR is affiliated with the mainland Republicans.

[Flagg]

I picked statehood just to see the American flag look like an even gawdier piece of shit.

Seriousely though, I think statehood is the best option for them from my PoV but I don't live there and ultimately it should be up to them. As an aside I'd like to see DC become a state.

[CaptainChewbacca]

I believe the planned design for a flag with 51 stars is 3 rows of 9 and 3 rows of 8 interspaced, with a 9 on the top.

Doesn't seem too bad to me. I think most Americans would either not care or support it. What would be REALLY funny is seeing presidential candidates campaigning in Puerto Rico. It ranks around Oklahoma in population numbers, and they can't really ignore it like Alaska or Hawaii.

[General Zod]

I imagine they'd see an uptick in tourism revenue. I know I wouldn't mind being able to visit without needing a passport.

[Flagg]

I imagine they'd see an uptick in tourism revenue. I know I wouldn't mind being able to visit without needing a passport.

You need a passport now? It's still a US territory.

[RogueIce]

I imagine they'd see an uptick in tourism revenue. I know I wouldn't mind being able to visit without needing a passport.

You need a passport now? It's still a US territory.

According to US Customs and Border Protection (who I imagine would be fairly knowledgable about these things) no, you do not, as long as it's direct from the US to PR. Which I'm reasonably sure would be fairly easily achieved.

[Ahriman238]

Statehood.

Yes, PR gets most of the benefits already, but quite all. And for the first oh, three, election cycles afterwards they could sit back and let both parties pour on gifts, money and attention while they try and feel out the politics of the place that they'd never cared to before.

[General Zod]

I imagine they'd see an uptick in tourism revenue. I know I wouldn't mind being able to visit without needing a passport.

You need a passport now? It's still a US territory.

According to US Customs and Border Protection (who I imagine would be fairly knowledgable about these things) no, you do not, as long as it's direct from the US to PR. Which I'm reasonably sure would be fairly easily achieved.

Huh, for some reason I was thinking you needed one.

[ArmorPierce]

My opinion is that it seems most Puerto Ricans want the status Quo. Personally I think that it has to do with the benefit of not paying federal taxes. I do agree that we should just go ahead and make them a state at this point, what's the point of having them as a permanent territory of the United States outside of grandeur of Imperialism?