Greek police send crime victims to neo-Nazi 'protectors'

[Murazor]

I also like how suddenly Germany is supposed to be at fault for the Greek leaders as well.

Seeing that Frau Merkel threatened an economically beleaguered with immediate economic retaliation if Greece dared to vote for the other guys, she bloody is at fault. The degree of said fault can be argued about until the cows go home, but it absolutely exists.

[Thanas]

Considering the alternative was "hey Germany thanks for your money we will never repay it kthxbye" then there was no other way. Still does not put Merkel at fault for Greek politicians being inept per se.

[Murazor]

Considering the alternative was "hey Germany thanks for your money we will never repay it kthxbye" then there was no other way.

Compound interest and the evolution of the economy (both Greece's and the world's) means that Germany's money cannot and will not be repaid anyway. At the very least, not in even marginally reasonable time frames.

Still does not put Merkel at fault for Greek politicians being inept per se.

It does, however, put Merkel at fault for strongly backing said inept politicians.

Sure, you can say that she was dealt a bad hand, but her options were 1) say/do nothing and see what happens, 2) back apparently inept and so far untested politicians or 3) back demonstrably inept and dishonest politicians who played a major role in getting Greece in the mess it is currently in.

She went with 3. She picked the known evil, obviously in the hopes that it would be the lesser one. I'd say that she chose poorly to reference Indiana Jones, but then I'm not her.

[Thanas]

Considering the alternative was "hey Germany thanks for your money we will never repay it kthxbye" then there was no other way.

Compound interest and the evolution of the economy (both Greece's and the world's) means that Germany's money cannot and will not be repaid anyway. At the very least, not in even marginally reasonable time frames.

Nations always pay their debts. Sure it may take them 90 years or so but they do repay them.

Sure, you can say that she was dealt a bad hand, but her options were 1) say/do nothing and see what happens, 2) back apparently inept and so far untested politicians or 3) back demonstrably inept and dishonest politicians who played a major role in getting Greece in the mess it is currently in.

She went with 3. She picked the known evil, obviously in the hopes that it would be the lesser one. I'd say that she chose poorly to reference Indiana Jones, but then I'm not her.

1 and 2 would have resulted in electing a party whose solution to all troubles was to exit Europe, screw over all foreign investors, go back on their word and break the treaties and arrangements signed and then devalue the currency. That is not something any sensible politician would have done nor would it in any way, shape or form have helped Greece.

[K. A. Pital]

Nations always pay their debts. Sure it may take them 90 years or so but they do repay them.

*looks at sovereign defaults* Sure Thanas. Of course they do.

1 and 2 would have resulted in electing a party whose solution to all troubles was to exit Europe, screw over all foreign investors, go back on their word and break the treaties and arrangements signed and then devalue the currency

If they want to exit Europe to make sovereign default possible, the Eurocrats have no right to keep them in by force. Last time I saw even the very possibility of referendum forced a collapse of government. When in fact a referendum is just asking the people what they want. So Europe does not want to hear what the Greeks want.

[Thanas]

Nations always pay their debts. Sure it may take them 90 years or so but they do repay them.

*looks at sovereign defaults* Sure Thanas. Of course they do.

At least be courteous enough and assume I am not an idiot and did not forget events I referenced multiple times on this very board. I should not have to add "assuming they do not default" to every scenario when discussing Greece.

If they want to exit Europe to make sovereign default possible, the Eurocrats have no right to keep them in by force.

Oh, but the Greeks have the right to take the money and run, do they? Because that is the other hand here. I am not in favor of other parties getting screwed just because the Greeks are unable live up to their word (again). If they wanted out they should have said so before they went to Europe begging for money.

[K. A. Pital]

At least be courteous enough and assume I am not an idiot and did not forget events I referenced multiple times on this very board. I should not have to add "assuming they do not default" to every scenario when discussing Greece.

The problem is that a normal way of defaulting has been ruled out by decree in this case. Not by the real economic situation, but by political will. So you can't just say "Greece will repay the debt". Debts tend to baloon and sometimes become simply infeasible to pay out for a nation (at least in entirety). The smaller and poorer the nation, the higher is the chance of non-repayment.

Oh, but the Greeks have the right to take the money and run, do they? Because that is the other hand here. I am not in favor of other parties getting screwed just because the Greeks are unable live up to their word (again). If they wanted out they should have said so before they went to Europe begging for money.

Every nation has a right to sovereign default. No treaties may infringe that right. If they do, it is a bigger problem than just Greece as it is. And I believe the referendum was supposed to have occured before Greece agreed to the austerity measures and the (corresponding) bailout money.

[Kane Starkiller]

The introduction of common currency made it impossible for peripheral countries to devalue their currency with respect to German one which greatly benefited German exports.
Additionally introducing common environmental policies and the like again benefited German companies which were much bigger and more technologically advanced than any in the periphery.

This led to the erosion of peripheral industry which coupled with easy credit enabled by the adoption of Euro led to this situation.

Germany now has a choice: decide whether the benefits to its export industry outweighs the price of periodic monetary transfers to the periphery.
All sings point to: yes. And so Germany will likely keep paying all the money it needs since the breakup of the eurozone would be devastating to its export industry. And for a country that exports the equivalent of 40% of its GDP that wouldn't end well.

[SirNitram]

I truly don't understand why the idea of simply cutting the banks out of the loop and paying them not a red cent is not an option. Pay off others, sure, but the banks have proven to be operating in bad faith, so why give them any more?

[Kane Starkiller]

The primary motivation of central countries is to save their own banks from exposure to bad debt not to save peripheral nations.

[K. A. Pital]

The introduction of common currency made it impossible for peripheral countries to devalue their currency with respect to German one which greatly benefited German exports.
Additionally introducing common environmental policies and the like again benefited German companies which were much bigger and more technologically advanced than any in the periphery.

This led to the erosion of peripheral industry which coupled with easy credit enabled by the adoption of Euro led to this situation.

Germany now has a choice: decide whether the benefits to its export industry outweighs the price of periodic monetary transfers to the periphery.
All sings point to: yes. And so Germany will likely keep paying all the money it needs since the breakup of the eurozone would be devastating to its export industry. And for a country that exports the equivalent of 40% of its GDP that wouldn't end well.

A perfect summary of the situation, Kane. And of course Germany will always decide yes. The question is whether the others should have the option to opt out of this circus... regardless of Germany's wishes.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

That argument is disingenious at best considering the other person had no idea how to deal with it besides "German money" and "no reforms at all". I also like how suddenly Germany is supposed to be at fault for the Greek leaders as well.

You mean what, how to deal with the situation the Merkel-backed parties created? The other party went from "we'll exit the Eurozone if we can't do otherwise" to "we'll stay in the Euro and pay off what we can". Believe me, if you and me alone tried to manage the whole thing, we'd do it better than PASOK-ND. Your leaders backed the worst administration the country has seen in decades. But this is all secondary, because in my opinion Merkel's words mattered little to those who still had not been touched by the recession, as well as the civil-war era fuckers who would rather die than vote left-leaning.

Again, blaming the symptoms not the cause. Without the Greeks sucking at basic math and being irresponsible there would have been no reason for the banks to give them credit in the first place. Now, should the banks be punished for not doing due dilligence but believing Greek lies? Yes, and they lost a good portion of their money by being forced to accept the renegotiation compromise.

Excuse me, man. Greek sovereign debt mounted after the ND government bailed out our banks with 29 fucking billion in 2008 (a bit more than a third our budget back then, and about double our current one). And this happened because of the EU-mandated orgy of deregulation of the last few years. A bank simply cannot accumulate so much bad debt without changing the rules of the game. Besides, if we are solely at fault for our debt, how come other countries are suffering too? Italy and Spain? Cyprus? The system was fucked up in its entirety, and simply the poorest countries broke first. Greece went first because Papandreou pushed hard for it.

Again, pay cuts are not the same thing as firing people. Pay cuts are easily reversed and then we get back to point A.

Firing people would only add another 100,000 to the unemployment list, scoring the fatality on our already collapsing social security services. Repaying debt is good, yes, but dying while trying isn't.

Clamping down on tax evasion and corruption would be the best as that should be easier done and cost less money than vague references to modernizing the state.

Few large private industries exist in Greece. Most people work as independent contractors, or operate family businesses. It is easier to hide money when you're not on a salary. So no, stopping tax evasion won't be that easy. And besides, most large businesses hand off profits to subsidiaries in the (relative) tax haven of Cyprus. Syriza proposed finding out just who those businesses were and slapping them with a 1% tax on their total circulation (both expenses and profits), which was twisted by the media to "1% on ALL businesses".

Land tax might not work because the Greek civil service (you know, the same which somehow needs double the percentage of Germany to work a country that should be much easier to administrate) had no idea who owns what land a few years ago. Excise taxes on fuels only hurts small people.

Sweden has triple that amount, which I think proves that number of workers alone is not indicative of anything. But to show you how well austerity is working for us, taxes on fuel were the first to be raised, in a country where most heating works on fossil fuels. Land tax is similarly fucked up, hurting small people.

Basically, everything they've done has hurt small people, because austerity is an inept plan, drawn up by inept people (as Joseph Stiglitz says, the IMF never managed to attract the best of his students) and executed by other inept people. The worst thing is, you won't see back your money because we used to it pay debts to German banks. Admit it, your banks have played you all for fools. They are now making your government give your money to the south, so they can take it from the south. We Greeks aren't seeing a single fucking red bloody cent. Your banks are swindling you to forestall their own collapse.

[K. A. Pital]

Excuse me, man. Greek sovereign debt mounted after the ND government bailed out our banks with 29 fucking billion

I've been saying that more than once on this board. And about the prior EU-supported deregulation and "liberalization" idiocy, pushed by the ECB itself.

[J]

I truly don't understand why the idea of simply cutting the banks out of the loop and paying them not a red cent is not an option. Pay off others, sure, but the banks have proven to be operating in bad faith, so why give them any more?

Because if we don't there will be tanks in the streets and very bad things will happen, of course. Do you want tanks in the streets and civil unrest/revolutions? No? Good. Then you must ensure an ever growing stream of tributes to the banks. Because that's how it works.

With that out of the way I'd just like to emphasize a point which has already been covered. All sovereign lending is by definition unsecured, that is the country doing the borrowing can take the money and run at any time it chooses and there's nothing its creditors can do about it other than a)cutting off all further lending, trade, and diplomatic relations, b)sucking it up and continue lending, or c)rolling their tanks across the border. It's generally accepted that sovereign debts shall eventually be repaid, however, there's nothing which obligates a debtor nation to do so if it or its people conclude that continued repayments are no longer in the nation's best interest.

[Sea Skimmer]

Well, you don't need tanks. The traditional means of enforcing sovereign debt was to bombard and occupy a port, seize the local customs house and then collect import/export duties until a satisfactory portion of the debt was paid off. Greece though has a little too much firepower for that idea to work, in fact they now have an air force significantly larger then the British even if a good chunk is obsolete. But then this is its own issue, Greek defense spending has always been at the top end of NATO and still is, while being highest in the EU. Some people estimated that if they'd spent at the dead average of everyone else, they'd have little or no sovereign debt, course then they'd also all might be learning to speak Turkish!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, the German position of complaining about Greek spending would be a lot more credible if they hadn't already put some so much effort into pressuring the Greeks not to kill the Type 214 submarine fiasco which also happened to involve a rather large amount of bribery. That didn't get so much attention internationally but it seems to be pretty damn well known in Greece. Some people think Germany outright made continuing the project a condition of the first bailout though its now sort of dead but with payment still in limbo and the boats still not working correctly.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Ah, yes, the submarine scandal. Another embarassment for the New Democracy government, and not even the biggest one.

The bit about our armed forces is that, sadly, there is no proper plan for their maintenance and further equipment. It is a prime sector for corruption and bribes because the politicians want bribes, the generals want shiny toys for their military parades (even though these Leopards came without ammunition, no joke here, once upon a time), the "geostrategic analysts" in the relevant mags are paid to advertise new weapons and find new real or imagined weaknesses, and the interested public is made up of doublethinking loons who scream that anyone who dares protest this hive of wasps is an agent of Turkey/FYROM/Albania/Israel/Freemasons or simply anti-Greek. Such is life in Plato's home.

But anyway, that's a non-issue for the most part. As long as Turkey is in the NATO and wants to be somewhat cozy with Europe, they won't attack; even if they do, their air force cannot reach the mainland, their navy isn't better than ours and any army would have to cross the Evros to attack the other. My guess is: it would be quick, with them capturing a few islands, us bombing some infrastructure in Asia Minor, our navies engaging for a short bit and then being forced to accept peace from the US and others who rather like a peaceful Balkan region (peaceful Balkans, of course, being hilarious in and of themselves). Then each side's nationalists would mourn their "honoured dead" (innocents caught in the crossfire of lunatics actually) for a few decades, and that would be it. After-war analysis by Trainwreck, coming shortly.

[Sea Skimmer]

The Turkish air force can reach any point in Greece without even using a full suit of drop tanks, and it owns a significant air refueling force, I dunno what gave you the idea Greece is out of range. An F-16 with two tanks and 4,000lb of bombs can fly at almost a 650nm combat radius, which is enough to take it from a base in western Turkey to Naples Italy. Even on a lo-lo-lo mission most of Greece is still within range and that isn't a likely way to fly. On the other hand flying a bunch of 1960s vintage A-7 Corsair IIs doesn't really help with this and indeed, a land war is pretty nonsensical. Certainly not enough threat to justify Greece maintaining such a huge mishmash of incompatible and obsolete equipment in its military it can only man with short term conscripts.

[Thanas]

The problem is that a normal way of defaulting has been ruled out by decree in this case. Not by the real economic situation, but by political will. So you can't just say "Greece will repay the debt". Debts tend to baloon and sometimes become simply infeasible to pay out for a nation (at least in entirety). The smaller and poorer the nation, the higher is the chance of non-repayment.

At which point you do what is currently being done. You get to the table and negotiate.

Every nation has a right to sovereign default. No treaties may infringe that right. If they do, it is a bigger problem than just Greece as it is. And I believe the referendum was supposed to have occured before Greece agreed to the austerity measures and the (corresponding) bailout money.

No, actually the referendum and election occured after the first tranche was already paid iirc.

You mean what, how to deal with the situation the Merkel-backed parties created? The other party went from "we'll exit the Eurozone if we can't do otherwise" to "we'll stay in the Euro and pay off what we can".

That is not how they came across. They came across more like "we'd like to reap the Eurozone benefits and will pay back when we decide to pay our debts."

Excuse me, man. Greek sovereign debt mounted after the ND government bailed out our banks with 29 fucking billion in 2008 (a bit more than a third our budget back then, and about double our current one). And this happened because of the EU-mandated orgy of deregulation of the last few years. A bank simply cannot accumulate so much bad debt without changing the rules of the game. Besides, if we are solely at fault for our debt, how come other countries are suffering too? Italy and Spain? Cyprus? The system was fucked up in its entirety, and simply the poorest countries broke first.

Italy and Spain as well as Cyprus are other examples of nations who either are incompetent at managing their economy or engaged in bubble building. I also find it hard to blame EU deregulation as being the sole cause for this considering that so far we got five or six nations struggling while the majority of EU members have managed to not mess it up beyond control.

Greece went first because Papandreou pushed hard for it.

And again, how is that Merkel's fault?

Firing people would only add another 100,000 to the unemployment list, scoring the fatality on our already collapsing social security services. Repaying debt is good, yes, but dying while trying isn't.

So the answer once again seems to be "Germany, please pay for our debts."

Few large private industries exist in Greece. Most people work as independent contractors, or operate family businesses. It is easier to hide money when you're not on a salary. So no, stopping tax evasion won't be that easy. And besides, most large businesses hand off profits to subsidiaries in the (relative) tax haven of Cyprus. Syriza proposed finding out just who those businesses were and slapping them with a 1% tax on their total circulation (both expenses and profits), which was twisted by the media to "1% on ALL businesses".

Looks like incompetence on all sides once again.

Sweden has triple that amount, which I think proves that number of workers alone is not indicative of anything. But to show you how well austerity is working for us, taxes on fuel were the first to be raised, in a country where most heating works on fossil fuels. Land tax is similarly fucked up, hurting small people.

Basically, everything they've done has hurt small people, because austerity is an inept plan, drawn up by inept people (as Joseph Stiglitz says, the IMF never managed to attract the best of his students) and executed by other inept people. The worst thing is, you won't see back your money because we used to it pay debts to German banks. Admit it, your banks have played you all for fools. They are now making your government give your money to the south, so they can take it from the south. We Greeks aren't seeing a single fucking red bloody cent. Your banks are swindling you to forestall their own collapse.

Meh. Our banks are currently paying back their debts to our Government and passed the last few tests so they seem to be doing okay. Again, blaming the banks seems also to be a movement to put blame upon everybody but the Greek populace.

[Starglider]

The only ethical, socialist, humanitarian thing to do is for Germany (and Austria and Sweden) to write off all debts to Greece. Just as with individuals, or the so-called 'developed countries' in general, the only reasons these countries are rich are historical accident and the patriachic exploitation of less fortunate countries. Social justice and basic communist decency demands unlimited transfer of wealth to the less advantaged european partners until living standards are completely equalised. Of course it is only sensible that our highly professional and trustworthy pan-European financial institutions manage this transfer; the modest fees charged will help to provide vitally needed jobs in high-end Geneva resturants and the Marina Monaco.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

That is not how they came across. They came across more like "we'd like to reap the Eurozone benefits and will pay back when we decide to pay our debts."

Quite possible. I didn't watch foreign reactions too much.

Italy and Spain as well as Cyprus are other examples of nations who either are incompetent at managing their economy or engaged in bubble building. I also find it hard to blame EU deregulation as being the sole cause for this considering that so far we got five or six nations struggling while the majority of EU members have managed to not mess it up beyond control.

Not the sole cause. Greece was, no matter how you cut it, one of the worst in the Eurozone. But laying it all on the Greeks only distorts the picture.

And again, how is that Merkel's fault?

And again, when did I say it was Merkel's fault? The blame lies with Papandreou.

So the answer once again seems to be "Germany, please pay for our debts."

If I believed that was the answer, I would've said it. What I implied was, we first need to bring the country's economy into some semblance of order. Don't start with "you'll be taking money from us again". Budget cuts can work, but not with the hack'n'slash methods of the IMF.

Looks like incompetence on all sides once again.

More like historical reasons. The Industrial Revolution only passed by here. Having to go from the medievalism of the Ottoman Empire to a European nation in mindset wasn't easy, and effects are still felt to this day.

Meh. Our banks are currently paying back their debts to our Government and passed the last few tests so they seem to be doing okay.

Yeah, they still pass the tests. I never contested they pass the tests. I only said we pay them because they put pressure on your government to give us money to do so. Your money.

Again, blaming the banks seems also to be a movement to put blame upon everybody but the Greek populace.

The populace has fucked up time and again. It has fucked up again recently. If you ask me, the populace must suffer. But not the indiscriminate punishment that is going on now. And yes, axing a bloke's 350-euro pension is indiscriminate and ineffective.

Also, as a post-scriptum, could somebody toss a banana to Starglider and get him back in his cage? I don't like the smell of burning strawman in the morning.

[Irbis]

It is a prime sector for corruption and bribes because the politicians want bribes, the generals want shiny toys for their military parades (even though these Leopards came without ammunition, no joke here, once upon a time), the "geostrategic analysts" in the relevant mags are paid to advertise new weapons and find new real or imagined weaknesses, and the interested public is made up of doublethinking loons who scream that anyone who dares protest this hive of wasps is an agent of Turkey/FYROM/Albania/Israel/Freemasons or simply anti-Greek.

Wait, Israel?

I can see first 3 countries, but I thought Greece had quite good relations with Israel, no?

[Thanas]

That is not how they came across. They came across more like "we'd like to reap the Eurozone benefits and will pay back when we decide to pay our debts."

Quite possible. I didn't watch foreign reactions too much.

I can only speak for myself but I only remember them getting eviscerated in all newspapers (both leftist and conservative) for having no plan besides old rhetoric that would help nobody, while hoping the EU would write more checks.

Not the sole cause. Greece was, no matter how you cut it, one of the worst in the Eurozone. But laying it all on the Greeks only distorts the picture.

That I agree with and sorry if I confused you with some of the other people.

If I believed that was the answer, I would've said it. What I implied was, we first need to bring the country's economy into some semblance of order. Don't start with "you'll be taking money from us again". Budget cuts can work, but not with the hack'n'slash methods of the IMF.

I guess the real problem is that there is too much distrust here. I mean, you got something like 70% of Germans claiming that Greece does not deserve any more money and should drown, so any further money is not going to happen without Greek concessions.

Meh. Our banks are currently paying back their debts to our Government and passed the last few tests so they seem to be doing okay.

Yeah, they still pass the tests. I never contested they pass the tests. I only said we pay them because they put pressure on your government to give us money to do so. Your money.

Yeah but it is not like they recovered 100% of their investment. In fact, for them investing in Greece has been a net loss so far. If they made crazy money of it they would not need Government handouts.

The populace has fucked up time and again. It has fucked up again recently. If you ask me, the populace must suffer. But not the indiscriminate punishment that is going on now. And yes, axing a bloke's 350-euro pension is indiscriminate and ineffective.

Well, what is a better way then?

Also, as a post-scriptum, could somebody toss a banana to Starglider and get him back in his cage? I don't like the smell of burning strawman in the morning.

Ignore him, it is what we usually do when he posts his trollbait.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

I can only speak for myself but I only remember them getting eviscerated in all newspapers (both leftist and conservative) for having no plan besides old rhetoric that would help nobody, while hoping the EU would write more checks.

That happened here, too. Media and government are too intertwined and the media definitely backed PASOK-ND, but... yeah. Syriza had, like, 4% before the crisis. It's more of a vote of desperation that drives them.

I guess the real problem is that there is too much distrust here. I mean, you got something like 70% of Germans claiming that Greece does not deserve any more money and should drown, so any further money is not going to happen without Greek concessions.

And you have an even greater percentage of Greeks who view Germany's actions as an intervention (laugh if you want with that), and oppose economic help exactly because of the concessions. So distrust is two-way.

Yeah but it is not like they recovered 100% of their investment. In fact, for them investing in Greece has been a net loss so far. If they made crazy money of it they would not need Government handouts.

Realistically, there's no chance in hell they would take 100% of their money. But the amount they have recovered is quite respectable under the circumstances.

Well, what is a better way then?

Well for a start, certain civil service positions are full of benefits and privileges. These also happen to be personal appointments exempt from the qualification exams that exist since 1996, and are usually managerial positions. Then there are the bigger fish, like the people who own the media and especially ship owners (they say that Greece has one of the largest merchant fleets in the world, but fuck me if I've ever seen one ship flying the Greek flag).

These are secondary. The real problem is that, for the last 30 years, governments have been securing votes by coddling trade unions, creating trade restrictions that benefitted certain professions, and further fucked up the taxation system for certain categories. This has created a set of alliances and political loyalties, all of which vote. So breaking these up is harder, because any government that really tried would end up with 6% in the next elections. All of those are things that don't show up in a quick skim and need detailed knowledge to fully grasp, but they form the very fabric of Greek society. Only the younger generation, those that entered the job market after 2005, can truly say they're no part of it.

I can see first 3 countries, but I thought Greece had quite good relations with Israel, no?

Yes. The professional analysts are now paid to tow a pro-Israeli line and at the same time play it up against Turkey. Their audience, though, is largely the same rightwing batshit unwashed mass. The 'Mossad agent' card is now only played by the (more) retardedly religious ones. Fuck, there are even some who, feeling free to express themselves on the Net, say we ought to declare war on Turkey right now and expect Israel to back us up. And you thought Republicans were crazy.

[Irbis]

I can see first 3 countries, but I thought Greece had quite good relations with Israel, no?

Yes. The professional analysts are now paid to tow a pro-Israeli line and at the same time play it up against Turkey. Their audience, though, is largely the same rightwing batshit unwashed mass. The 'Mossad agent' card is now only played by the (more) retardedly religious ones.

Sorry, I mean why there is issue of "Mossad Agent" to begin with. Did Israel do a lot of spying in Greece? Does Mossad have any interest in seeing Greece weaker? If not, why call people who just try to do their job Mossad agents? I understand how they might be accused of Albanian/Turkish influence, but why Mossad?

[mr friendly guy]

I can see first 3 countries, but I thought Greece had quite good relations with Israel, no?

Yes. The professional analysts are now paid to tow a pro-Israeli line and at the same time play it up against Turkey. Their audience, though, is largely the same rightwing batshit unwashed mass. The 'Mossad agent' card is now only played by the (more) retardedly religious ones.

Sorry, I mean why there is issue of "Mossad Agent" to begin with. Did Israel do a lot of spying in Greece? Does Mossad have any interest in seeing Greece weaker? If not, why call people who just try to do their job Mossad agents? I understand how they might be accused of Albanian/Turkish influence, but why Mossad?

Jewish conspiracy theories, duh. I see a few of these conspiracy theories, ie on youtube comments and on other message boards (which BTW have nothing to do with Jews, but some people need a board to get out their message). It seems to be based on the fact that Jews magically control the banks. Seeing how the banks did contribute to the problem, and the Jews control the banks, you can sort of see the magical link to Jews.

The Jews of course also control the media, brainwashing us with help the banks and pro Zionist thoughts, even though those media barons aren't Jewish. But the conspiracy theorists have an out for that too. The media barons are secretly Jewish but pretend not to be as a form of protection. This of course despite not needing such protection since their brainwashing apparently works on most people. But having internal consistency is difficult for the conspiracy theorists.