Presidential Debate Obama VS Romney Round 2

[Dalton]

Obama FINALLY brings up the 47% remark.

At a time Romney can't respond.

He was actually responding to Romney's own 100% remark. "He stuck his chin out, and Obama punched him hard", as Chris Matthews said.

[Broken]

Going to be interesting to see how this debate gets spun, the media desperately wants to make this a close horse race, so I'm betting they will call it a tie or slight edge to Romney even if he seemed evasive and rude to me (doubtlessly, that's at least partially my personal bias against the current GOP coming out).

[Block]

Going to be interesting to see how this debate gets spun, the media desperately wants to make this a close horse race, so I'm betting they will call it a tie or slight edge to Romney even if he seemed evasive and rude to me (doubtlessly, that's at least partially my personal bias against the current GOP coming out).

Nah, they're calling it an Obama win so far.

[Dalton]

Going to be interesting to see how this debate gets spun, the media desperately wants to make this a close horse race, so I'm betting they will call it a tie or slight edge to Romney even if he seemed evasive and rude to me (doubtlessly, that's at least partially my personal bias against the current GOP coming out).

MSNBC is calling it a clear Obama win, though saying Romney still put in a performance as well as last week. Chris Matthews scored 6 Obama, 1 Romney, 3 draw.

[Mr Bean]

MSNBC is calling it a clear Obama win, though saying Romney still put in a performance as well as last week. Chris Matthews scored 6 Obama, 1 Romney, 3 draw.

I disagree with Mathews and put it 2 Obama, 0 Romney 7 Draw, with Libya and taxes the only two wins in the Obama column and I really only give him Libya as a clear win.

[Block]

A woman being the moderator hurts Romney a lot I think. The same bullying that he did to Lehr works against him when he tries to do it to a woman in the eyes of people that thought it was appropriate with a man.

[Dalton]

Already the wailing of "LIBERAL MODERATOR BIAS" has begun.

[General Zod]

What the fuck? Did Mittens just shift the conversation from gun control to "single parents are bad?"

Obama went from gun control to education.

Both of them, in a round about fashion, were trying to make the argument that violent crime is a bit more nuanced than "guns".

Mittens did a poorer showing of it, though. At least Obama was trying to get across the point that it's about economic opportunities and not some "nuclear family" bullshit.

[Simon_Jester]

Going to be interesting to see how this debate gets spun, the media desperately wants to make this a close horse race, so I'm betting they will call it a tie or slight edge to Romney even if he seemed evasive and rude to me (doubtlessly, that's at least partially my personal bias against the current GOP coming out).

Since they called the last one a Romney win and managed to call the veep-debate a draw, calling this an Obama win doesn't hurt the 'horse race' mythos.

[Jim Raynor]

Did Romney just change his tax plan? Wasn't he going to cut rates 20% yet he's not lowering the total tax burden "on the 5%"?

LOL, he's not that honest. He's blatantly sidestepping the issue. He's acting like he can have it both ways and hoping that not enough people call him on it.

In a rational world, everyone would demand that he name his loopholes and show the math to prove how it adds up. In the bullshit real world, he's allowed to insist that his policies are magically deficit neutral just because, before the moderator lets him off the hook by moving on to the next question.

This is a big, big deal, given how much of the Republican platform is built on fiscal responsibility and cutting the deficit. Romney's persisting with vague BS that wouldn't pass in any decent classroom or workplace. Imagine telling people about your awesome business strategy which you can't and won't explain in any way...yet Romney has the audacity to run on his business experience.

[Mr Bean]

I still owe five drinks, damn you small business, damn you to hell.
To the horse race aspect, the correct method to promote the horse race aspect is to call this an Obama win. Biden wins the VP, Romney wins Debate 1 meaning we are cleared to have debate 3 being a Romney win assuming debate 2 is an Obama win since the VP debate is worth 2/3rds a Presidential debate.

[Simon_Jester]

The media is allowing "Biden was rude!" enough air time that I think the VP debate can be 'called' a tie by them.

Also, while the media wants a horse race, that doesn't mean they just automatically alternate back and forth between the candidates mindlessly. "Obama and Romney, neck and neck" is a strong narrative.

[Jim Raynor]

First scientific CNN poll was just reported on TV. Obama's up 46% to Romney's 39%, with an even Democrat/Republican sampling. Not a huge victory, but a good comeback.

[Lord MJ]

Lets see if this debate performance stops the bleeding Obama's campaign is having. Espescially his standing with women. If it doesn't well....

But if it does, then it sets up the final deciding third debate with subject matter that Obama should have the advantage in, if Obama wins in should give him the last minute momentum to carry him through election day.

[Lord MJ]

Statements about Single Parents should be played for all they are worth...

[Jim Raynor]

The way Romney segued from guns to "family" crap was also got a "WTF" from me.

[JME2]

Statements about Single Parents should be played for all they are worth...

I wonder if Mittens' comment was also a deliberate verbal fuck you to Obama given his family history. If so, bad form asshole. Bad fucking form.

Glad Obama was better grounded and able to fight back this time.

[The Yosemite Bear]

I kept hearing five point plan, as five year plan (stas take a drink, romney's stealing from stalin)

[Jim Raynor]

When Romney went into that traditional family stuff, I was hoping that he'd slip up and say something against gay marriage.

[Knife]

I wanted him to explain how he was going to make people be in a 'traditional family'.

[SirNitram]

Personal favorite bullshit of the night was marriage stopping gun violence. Ah, the magical day when I married LadyTev and she stopped gunning down immigrants in the streets with her squirrelgun.

[Lord MJ]

So Mitt says that gas prices were 1.86 in 2008. Which is true... after the economy bottomed out and oil prices tanked as a result. In the summer of 2008, gas was well in excess of $4. I remember seeing outrageous gas prices during the summer of 2008 when I first moved to the DC area. This is of course before Obama was even elected...

I didn't catch if Obama said anything to rebut Mitt on that one.

[Pint0 Xtreme]

So Mitt says that gas prices were 1.86 in 2008. Which is true... after the economy bottomed out and oil prices tanked as a result. In the summer of 2008, gas was well in excess of $4. I remember seeing outrageous gas prices during the summer of 2008 when I first moved to the DC area. This is of course before Obama was even elected...

I didn't catch if Obama said anything to rebut Mitt on that one.

Actually, I believe that's exactly what Obama said in rebutting Mitt on gas prices in 2008. And that gas prices would drop again if the economy dropped and bottomed out again.

[Channel72]

Well... that was awesome. Those two looked like they were ready to punch each other at one point.

As for the Libya thing - let's be honest and objective for one second here: Romney is correct that the Obama administration initially claimed the incident in Libya was related to spontaneous mob violence spurred on by outrage over the Youtube video, rather than a coordinated terrorist attack. Yeah, Obama used the words "acts of terror" in the rose garden speech, but that was only in a very general sense of "we don't tolerate violence" or something. The actual official stance of the Obama administration (as announced on multiple occasions by Hillary Clinton) was that the embassy attack in Libya was part of a wave of Muslim outrage over the Youtube video - not a pre-planned, coordinated terrorist attack.

So Romney made a fair point, even though he got smacked down by the moderator because Obama technically did say the words "terror attack". But if Obama was totally honest, rather than saying he always knew it was a terrorist attack, he should have said something like "well, there was some confusion and we mistakenly thought the attack in Libya was part of the same wave of mob violence that started in Cairo over the Youtube video - but we found out later that actually the Libya attack was an unrelated terrorist plot."

Not that it matters much - Obama came out looking better all around, and I'm hoping this is reflected in the polls. But we shouldn't just gloss over something slightly dishonest like this, just because he's "our guy."

[Guardsman Bass]

What was with that bit where Romney suddenly decided he wanted to call Obama out on whether his pension has investments in Chinese firms? He did it right in the middle of the immigration argument, and it honestly looked like he got angry and lost control. He was aggressive, confrontational (not in the Joe Biden smiling "You're full of shit Paul Ryan" way), and in Obama's face in a way that didn't happen even during the energy segment when they broke the rules and started arguing between the two of them.

I'll give it to Obama, although I think he missed an opportunity to jab Romney effectively over equal pay for women. It would have been so easy for him to give a direct, quick response about Lily Ledbetter and how he supported the Ledbetter Act, before demanding to know if Romney supports it (he probably doesn't). Instead, he rambled for a while, before finally getting to it after Romney's response. Fortunately, Romney's response quickly turned into a mess, so it worked out.

So Romney made a fair point, even though he got smacked down by the moderator because Obama technically did say the words "terror attack". But if Obama was totally honest, rather than saying he always knew it was a terrorist attack, he should have said something like "well, there was some confusion and we mistakenly thought the attack in Libya was part of the same wave of mob violence that started in Cairo over the Youtube video - but we found out later that actually the Libya attack was an unrelated terrorist plot."

Romney really failed to capitalize on that one, I think. He could have responded to Obama's attack about politicizing things at midnight the night of the attack by saying something about how Obama's people rushed to offer wrong explanation after wrong explanation for the attacks, before finally copping that there was no protest. But he didn't.