Amanda Todd Coverage

[amigocabal]

Then we should repeal those laws so that the victims can quit school and avoid bullying.

Shouldn't the bullies be the ones leaving?

You can only decide your own actions, not other people's actions.

[Stark]

The best way to solve a problem is generally to ignore it.

Right?

[Jub]

Then we should repeal those laws so that the victims can quit school and avoid bullying.

Shouldn't the bullies be the ones leaving?

You can only decide your own actions, not other people's actions.

How about we let the adults deal with bullying in a proper manner instead?

[Flagg]

Shouldn't the bullies be the ones leaving?

You can only decide your own actions, not other people's actions.

How about we let the adults deal with bullying in a proper manner instead?

That would be ideal. Unfortunately far too many teachers and administrators ignore the bullies and go after the victims out of laziness. There is no easy solution to the problem. Though to suggest victims should skuttle their educations in the face of bullying takes that shit to an entirely new level of cuntery.

[Scrib]

Then we should repeal those laws so that the victims can quit school and avoid bullying.

Shouldn't the bullies be the ones leaving?

You can only decide your own actions, not other people's actions.

Because in this information age, you can't find out why people were bullied and start bullying them again like say, Amanda Todd?

[amigocabal]

Shouldn't the bullies be the ones leaving?

You can only decide your own actions, not other people's actions.

How about we let the adults deal with bullying in a proper manner instead?

We already do.

The adults refuse to deal with bullying in the proper manner.

[TheFeniX]

Then we should repeal those laws so that the victims can quit school and avoid bullying.

We already do.

The adults refuse to deal with bullying in the proper manner.

Are you trolling or do you actually consider this a legitimate argument?

If our safety supervisor (or anyone with the pertinent training really) allows an unsafe situation to continue and someone gets hurt, they can easily be charged with negligence and fired (or even arrested depending on the circumstances). If they knowingly destroy records to cover up wrong-doing (such as the school in Cy Fair), that's felonies and jail time.

The schools are acting as guardians of students in primary school. It's there fucking job to protect their wards. When people do shitty/illegal jobs, the correct answer isn't "well, pull your kids out and fuck over their education" it's "punish people not doing their job." We have schools willing to call the cops on girls who draw on their desks with erasable markers and cops willing to slap them in handcuffs over it, yet it's somehow impossible to charge kids with assault and harassment and administrators with negligence when they fail to act?

[amigocabal]

How about we let the adults deal with bullying in a proper manner instead?

That would be ideal. Unfortunately far too many teachers and administrators ignore the bullies and go after the victims out of laziness. There is no easy solution to the problem. Though to suggest victims should skuttle their educations in the face of bullying takes that shit to an entirely new level of cuntery.

You are assuming that attending school is the only way to get an education.

But why do we need school to educate people? We have the Internet, where children can learn from reading web sites. And even before then, books were available by mail order. We have the means for education to be conducted fully inside the home, and to make schools obsolete.

The schools are acting as guardians of students in primary school. It's there fucking job to protect their wards. When people do shitty/illegal jobs, the correct answer isn't "well, pull your kids out and fuck over their education" it's "punish people not doing their job." We have schools willing to call the cops on girls who draw on their desks with erasable markers and cops willing to slap them in handcuffs over it, yet it's somehow impossible to charge kids with assault and harassment and administrators with negligence when they fail to act?

So why is this not happening already?

[Flagg]

How about we let the adults deal with bullying in a proper manner instead?

That would be ideal. Unfortunately far too many teachers and administrators ignore the bullies and go after the victims out of laziness. There is no easy solution to the problem. Though to suggest victims should skuttle their educations in the face of bullying takes that shit to an entirely new level of cuntery.

You are assuming that attending school is the only way to get an education.

But why do we need school to educate people? We have the Internet, where children can learn from reading web sites. And even before then, books were available by mail order. We have the means for education to be conducted fully inside the home, and to make schools obsolete.

So all of this is really about home schooling? Super.

[TheFeniX]

You are assuming that attending school is the only way to get an education.

But why do we need school to educate people? We have the Internet, where children can learn from reading web sites. And even before then, books were available by mail order. We have the means for education to be conducted fully inside the home, and to make schools obsolete.

Yep, full retard. Education is extremely difficult without motivation, structure, and verifiability.

All of these things can exist in home schooling if the parents have the means to provide it. Your entire "solution" can be boiled down to: fuck the poor.

So why is this not happening already?

Are you kidding me? Have you read this thread at all?

Bullying is assumed to not be a problem because everyone goes through it. How the "bullying" label applies to it is relevant as well depending on the argument. Of course administrators treats bullying as a non-issue: it doesn't affect them, it looks bad if they report it, and there are no real consequences unless the media gets involved. The whole point is that it should affect them the same as if a parent watched their kid get beat up by other kids and did nothing about it. The whole in loco parentis bit is only trotted out by schools when it benefits them: that shouldn't be the case. Cases of negligent "parenting" should be treated as such.

Your solution is to shut the school system down? Congratulations, you're a cartoon ostridge.

[amigocabal]

Your solution is to shut the school system down? Congratulations, you're a cartoon ostridge.

Where did I claim that the school system should be shut down? I merely advocated allowing students to quit school.

[Jub]

Your solution is to shut the school system down? Congratulations, you're a cartoon ostridge.

Where did I claim that the school system should be shut down? I merely advocated allowing students to quit school.

Do we do this with adult bullies; tell their victims to quit their jobs and move? No, we done't. We treat these adult bullies like the criminals/assholes they are and expect them to change. Why should this situation be different?

[General Brock]

The best way to solve a problem is generally to ignore it.

Right?

Forbes put out an interesting series of articles on adult bullying.

...Bullying is known to be a learned behavior, so we are, in fact, passing it on to our kids. And more than 35 percent of employees said they had experienced workplace bullying, according to one 2010 study. Several suicides among adult bullying victims have made headlines in recent years, most notably managing editor Kevin Morrissey at the Virginia Quarterly Review who allegedly shot himself after enduring years of bullying behavior from a top editor at the paper.

So, if we are ignoring it, it may be partially because we've experienced some conditioning to do so. Its possible fewer people inclined to break the bullying cycle are being produced by populations experiencing a bullying problems, and the problem feeds on itself. The rare individual who escapes or rejects that conditioning, by natural inclination or learning, may not have as much positive effect as he or she would in a less hostile environment where that might respected enough to preclude retribution.

[General Brock]

Bully Psychology: Where Evolution And Morality Collide

...The problem with evolution is that doesn’t occur evenly. We develop extraordinary skills in some ways – abstract reasoning, language, and even social interaction – and in other ways, our behavior is breathtakingly outdated. Ancient parts of our brains still exist, and inform our behavior in lots of maladaptive ways. Bullying is a great example of this.

Some once posted on a thread, to the effect, that sociopathy was an obsolete trait and on its way out; maybe its not, or at least, its not going down quietly.

[Scrib]

Bully Psychology: Where Evolution And Morality Collide

...The problem with evolution is that doesn’t occur evenly. We develop extraordinary skills in some ways – abstract reasoning, language, and even social interaction – and in other ways, our behavior is breathtakingly outdated. Ancient parts of our brains still exist, and inform our behavior in lots of maladaptive ways. Bullying is a great example of this.

Some once posted on a thread, to the effect, that sociopathy was an obsolete trait and on its way out; maybe its not, or at least, its not going down quietly.

Do you know the thread/have a link? I'm curious because sociopaths (high functioning ones anyway) have been doing well for themselves. I assume you mean the idiots who can't help but be in trouble? If so that'll only lead to a smaller pool of "better sociopaths.

[Alyrium Denryle]

You are assuming that attending school is the only way to get an education.

Oh this should be special.

But why do we need school to educate people? We have the Internet, where children can learn from reading web sites.

Which is useless if A) the information is not verifiable B) the kid does not know how to prioritize information C) there is no good way to make sure if the kid knows the things they need to know.

For example, I am a biologist with an interest in medieval history. However, when it comes to matters related to it, I know damn well that my knowledge on the subject is inferior to that of Thansas or Imperial Overlord (both trained historians specializing at least partially in medieval and rennaissance history), barring specific details. Why? Because I have no formal training. No guidance or unified theories of history in my knowledge base. Books get selected based on my interests and I read them, but I have little way of evaluating the credibility of the authors and there are HUGE swaths of information outside my knowledge base. For example, I had no idea how finance worked in the medieval period until I asked Imp Overlord.

With parental guidance, unless that parent is a historian, it is a case of the blind leading the blind. They might be able to teach to the test, but they dont have the training necessary to actually explain things to their kids and get actual understanding and synthesis of information to happen.

Where did I claim that the school system should be shut down? I merely advocated allowing students to quit school.

Making schools obsolete.

So, why exactly is it that the proposed solution to the bullying problem is to relegate bullied students to the status of having a shitty education?

[Ziggy Stardust]

Which is useless if A) the information is not verifiable B) the kid does not know how to prioritize information C) there is no good way to make sure if the kid knows the things they need to know.

Pshaw, Wikipedia is plenty verifiable! Haven't you seen all those citations they sometimes have?! All you need for a balanced education is to keep hitting "random article" and read every single one. I mean, for every article of interest or substance you will have to read 30 entries on small towns in New Brunswick, but that's prioritizing information in a way ...

Seriously, though, it amazes me sometimes how little people realize the incredible amounts of training and information-absorption inherent to becoming even half knowledgable in a field, especially subjects as superficially "simple" as history. A lot of people, especially young people, and I would bet amigocabal or whatever the hell his name is belongs to this group, really do believe that reading three paragraphs describing the Medicis and Galileo would consist of a thorough understanding of Renaissance Italy.

[amigocabal]

You are assuming that attending school is the only way to get an education.

Oh this should be special.

But why do we need school to educate people? We have the Internet, where children can learn from reading web sites.

Which is useless if A) the information is not verifiable B) the kid does not know how to prioritize information C) there is no good way to make sure if the kid knows the things they need to know.

For example, I am a biologist with an interest in medieval history. However, when it comes to matters related to it, I know damn well that my knowledge on the subject is inferior to that of Thansas or Imperial Overlord (both trained historians specializing at least partially in medieval and rennaissance history), barring specific details. Why? Because I have no formal training. No guidance or unified theories of history in my knowledge base. Books get selected based on my interests and I read them, but I have little way of evaluating the credibility of the authors and there are HUGE swaths of information outside my knowledge base. For example, I had no idea how finance worked in the medieval period until I asked Imp Overlord.

With parental guidance, unless that parent is a historian, it is a case of the blind leading the blind. They might be able to teach to the test, but they dont have the training necessary to actually explain things to their kids and get actual understanding and synthesis of information to happen.

True, there are drawbacks. But at least the victims of bullying will not commit suicide over it.

[Alyrium Denryle]

True, there are drawbacks. But at least the victims of bullying will not commit suicide over it.

Or you can FUCKING DEAL WITH BULLYING! HOLY SHIT! WHAT A NOVEL FUCKING SOLUTION! Protect bullied students within the god damn school. It is not actually hard to do, it just takes the teachers and administrators giving a shit.

Instead, your proposed solution is make the bullied kids into a permanent fucking underclass by relegating them to manifestly inferior homeschooling. What strange little universe do you live in that makes you think that is a good idea?

[Scrib]

True, there are drawbacks. But at least the victims of bullying will not commit suicide over it.

Or you can FUCKING DEAL WITH BULLYING! HOLY SHIT! WHAT A NOVEL FUCKING SOLUTION! Protect bullied students within the god damn school. It is not actually hard to do, it just takes the teachers and administrators giving a shit.

Instead, your proposed solution is make the bullied kids into a permanent fucking underclass by relegating them to manifestly inferior homeschooling. What strange little universe do you live in that makes you think that is a good idea?

But see, you can't deal with bullying because if we could we would. And since we haven't we can't. So we must fuck the victims over. This is all I'm hearing from him tbh.

[amigocabal]

True, there are drawbacks. But at least the victims of bullying will not commit suicide over it.

Or you can FUCKING DEAL WITH BULLYING! HOLY SHIT! WHAT A NOVEL FUCKING SOLUTION! Protect bullied students within the god damn school. It is not actually hard to do, it just takes the teachers and administrators giving a shit.

And how do you plan to force teachers and administrators to give a shit?

[TheFeniX]

And how do you plan to force teachers and administrators to give a shit?

How did we make employers give a shit about workplace discrimination? There's already legal basis for it what with in loco parentis. If they ignore obvious signs of abuse, the justice system should spank them.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Generally speaking, the REASON teachers/administrators don't give a shit, or appear not to, is because of a prevailing "boys will be boys" type attitude. Light bullying is considered by many to just be a part of growing up. If you want it to stop, you need an education/training initiative for them to learn the signs of bullying/trauma/whatever, and methods for dealing with it.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

True, there are drawbacks. But at least the victims of bullying will not commit suicide over it.

Or you can FUCKING DEAL WITH BULLYING! HOLY SHIT! WHAT A NOVEL FUCKING SOLUTION! Protect bullied students within the god damn school. It is not actually hard to do, it just takes the teachers and administrators giving a shit.

And how do you plan to force teachers and administrators to give a shit?

By severely penalizing them when they don't.