eion wrote:Two, Broomstick. All those scenarios you described are violations of sexual harassment laws under the hostile workplace conditions. Employers can be held liable for the actions of their customers if they are aware, or should be aware of such actions (Lockard v. Pizza Hut, 162 F.3d 1062, 1073). If your employer has stated that accepting the repeated and hostile unwanted advances of a customer is a condition of employment, or just turns a blind eye to it, then I wish you well in your action against them and congratulations on owning your own shoe repair shop
WHERE, pray tell, did I EVER say that my EMPLOYER was making "repeated and hostile unwanted advances of a customer" and form of "condition of employment"?
Oh, right -
I DIDN'T
It was a
damned hypothetical - did you or didn't you read the post? Can actually comprehend what you read?
Here is the problem: it is NOT my employer's fault there are clueless horny shitheads. WHY do you continue to blame everyone BUT the guilty party? It is the shithead's fault for harassing me, no one else's.
As a matter of fact, my employer was rather horrified when she found out and absolutely back my verbal thrashing of said shithead and fully encouraged me to call the police should he ever return. Honestly, one could not hope for a more supporting employer.
Fact is, as a lesbian she has ZERO interest in sex with any man and has endured such harassment all her life from men who simply
can not believe that a women may exist who can not be convinced to find them sexy.
There is
absolutely no point in my unleashing legal consequences on my
employer, SHE is not the guilty party here. Again, you seem to think that threatening my livelihood is somehow the answer here. Why the FUCK would I drag my employer into court over this? Really?
Hey, any asshole who tries to tell my employer any of the bullshit intimidation crap is welcome go ahead and try it, because my employer is one of the last it would ever work on. Just as the asshat who said he'd tell my husband we were having an affair, so why not make it true - I told him to
go ahead and tell my husband that. And he did. And what was my husband's reaction? Not the jealous beating he expected I'd get for being such a "cocktease", no - my husband laughed in his face and told him he hoped that the next time he tried that bullshit on his wife he hoped I would kick the asshat's balls up to around his Adam's apple. I
hope you can figure out from all that that I
do not tolerate that shit in my life. Nor do I tolerate it from friends, relatives, or co-workers.
The ONE time in recent years I have had to deal with a truly threatening customer was when I was working in construction. I told my boss about my concerns and fears. He immediately took me at my word, promised I would never have to be alone on that worksite ever again (and kept that promise), and one time physically interposed himself between the client and me and told the client to back off and not bother his crew while any of them were working. In other words, handled the situation in a way far more effective an immediate that dragging it into the legal system. Frankly, I'd
much prefer a boss willing to act in an immediate and effective manner over one that just tells me to get a restraining order which, when you get down to it, is really just a piece of paper with ink on it.
As I always try to emphasize in these discussions
most men are decent human beings and understand that Rape is Bad. Most men will do the right thing. The problem is the minority who don't. Unfortunately, rapists look just like all the other men. We can't pick them out of the crowd until they do something bad.
My employer is not "tolerating" sexual harassment because some random asshole walked into the store and harassed his or her employees. Fact is, there are assholes everywhere and they're going to act like what they are. An employer is only legally liable if 1) the employee informs them of the harassment and 2) said employer does nothing about it, or targets the employee for punishment for being harassed and speaking up about it. In actual life that has not happened to me with my two most recent employers. Indeed, they acted appropriately and responsively. Again, you blame
everyone but the actual guilty party.
Why is that?
You cannot sexually harass a total stranger on the street, because nothing is preventing that person from leaving the area (you can sexually harass a clerk in a shop, but barring any other crimes you commit while doing so the employer would be the one responsible) If I then grabbed the person and continued to make sexual advances, or otherwise prevented them from leaving, then we're in attempted rape territory, but no sexual harassment ever took place.
BULLSHIT.
Following a woman down the street while making leering comments about her tits and ass
actually is harassment. It's unwanted attention. If she's walking away from you she is CLEARLY trying to exit the situation but if pursued yes, that is harassment. Since it's harassment of a sexual nature it is, in fact, sexual harassment as opposed to, say, racial harassment.
Four, if we want to dive into the rape culture, then we can start talking about the blind eye still turned to male on male rape. Prison rape is almost entirely unprosecuted.
There are people trying to change that. Just as an older woman fucking an underage boy used to be laughed off and now women are going to prison for that, as the pedophiles they are. Just a football coach buggering boys in a shower room or a priest fucking an altar boy used to be ignored and such people are now serving real time in real prison.
And that’s before we start talking about how police still treat gay domestic violence different from heterosexual DV.
And that is absolutely, positively wrong. So... what is your point here?
Five, a little legalism is a good thing, since we are talking about crimes
United States Federal Law (Title 10, Subtitle A, Chapter 47X, Section 920, Article 120) wrote:
(a) Rape.— Any person subject to this chapter who causes another person of any age to engageing a sexual act by—
(1) using force against that other person;
(2) causing grievous bodily harm to any person;
(3) threatening or placing that other person in fear that any person will be subjected to death, grievous bodily harm, or kidnapping;
(4) rendering another person unconscious; or
(5) administering to another person by force or threat of force, or without the knowledge or permission of that person, a drug, intoxicant, or other similar substance and thereby substantially impairs the ability of that other person to appraise or control conduct;[2]
Now I assume that “putting your shoulder around someone” would fall under (3), but I would hope that the victim would have other signs that violence would occur should they try to leave besides just an arm around the shoulder.
There is putting an arm around someone's shoulder and doing it in a manner where
they can't break your hold. If you hug me and I pull away, saying, please don't touch me and you comply with my wishes then that's not a problem. If you hug me, I
try to pull away and you
don't let me that is, my friend, a crime under the definition you've given. Holding someone against their will is, in fact, very threatening.
My personally favorite part of Rape law discontinuity is that if I physically tie you down and rape you I can get life in prison, if I slip you a muscle relaxer and then rape your while you are unable to resist then I can only get 15 years.
What the fuck is your point here? How is this relevant to the discussion? It's like this "retroactive rape" situation which isn't, in fact, what the topic is about. You keep going off on tangents attempting to "prove" you aren't what you appear to be to the rest of us. All you're doing is digging your hole deeper.
