Star Wars: 2015

[Connor MacLeod]

Who really cares whether the number is 3 million or 3 quadratrillion or whatever? I don't remember that being the real thrust of the argument so much as it was people arguing over whose view of STar Wars was better/more canonical. I know that looking back I have a hard time understanding why I believed things had to be something other than 3 million, given that the idea of establishing ABSOLUTE troop numbers is kind of silly. And arguing it simply created more ill will than it solved anything.

[Ralin]

Actually from what I've seen 3 million (or 4, or 6, or whatever the actual number was) clones would've been patently silly even by EU standards.

Three million, with three million more on the way. It was taken from the line in Attack of the Clones.

I'll stop the derail now.

[Batman]

1. @Ralin-thanks. 2. As somebody who only witnessed the Traviss travesty at one remote (meaning I only ever became aware of it when it came up here on SDN), regardless of wether it was the actual number or the canonicity of it that got people worked up, the fact remains that the number is ludicrously low. You'd be hard pressed to conquer modern day Europe with 3 million troops, nevermind thousands of planets.

[Boeing 757]

Doesn't one of the ICS books claim that there were quadrillions of clones produced during the height of the Clone Wars? ICS > Karen Traviss.

[Srelex]

Doesn't one of the ICS books claim that there were quadrillions of clones produced during the height of the Clone Wars? ICS > Karen Traviss.

Quadrillions of droids, I think. The latest sourcebook tried to work it out by saying that 3 million was only the starting batch and the rest of the army 'grew exponentially' afterwards, or something to that effect.

[Darksider]

Quadrillions of droids, I think. The latest sourcebook tried to work it out by saying that 3 million was only the starting batch and the rest of the army 'grew exponentially' afterwards, or something to that effect.

That actually does fit with most Clone Wars EU stuff, which had the Republic start the war out considerably outmatched and mostly on the back foot, then steadily gain the upper hand as the war drew on.

[Simon_Jester]

How did this become more interesting than talking about the movie they're planning to make?

[Darksider]

Because we don't know anything about it yet? I suspect once we have more to go on than theory and conjecture the discussion will pick back up

[Simon_Jester]

Even the casting questions are interesting- like whether they'll be reusing characters, or for that matter actors, from the originals. I kind of doubt it myself, as noted; almost all the big characters in the original trilogy are old and not even slightly interested.

But if we look at a hypothetical story (say, wise old Luke as mentor to dashing young hero) who should they cast? If not Mark Hamill as wise old Luke, and he looks more like Palpatine than Obi-Wan nowadays... anyone come to mind?

[Grumman]

But if we look at a hypothetical story (say, wise old Luke as mentor to dashing young hero) who should they cast?

I'd rather see a dashing young heroine.

[Kurgan]

I don't know what they will do (and I'm not losing sleep over it), but I predict that they will be looking to Star Trek 2009 as their model for what
to do with the next Star Wars films.

Just a feeling. The computer animation thing is already going forward with the Clone Wars series. The live action series is already going forward.
This is asking about what live action "Star Wars" movies they'll be doing next. I highly doubt they'll have a "Generations/Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" style reunion film with the original cast having one more adventure or passing the torch. Just my speculation.

I gave up on the idea of a pristine "canon" of Star Wars long ago. I figure if LucasFilm didn't care enough, neither should I. So yes, new films will probably contradict what's already been established (both in the EU and the films).

Rebooting the EU, if they do it, is probably a good idea, not because it will suddenly be perfect, but because it needs a fresh start to get the interest of new fans.

And no, Disney's buy out (which surprised me too, no joke) will not mean it will be "kiddified." I agree with those who say that's already been done by Lucas himself. Then I'll probably get flamed by grown men who religiously follow the Clone Wars series. Please note "kiddified" doesn't mean "stupid" but it does mean aiming at a lower age demographic. Lucas back in the day said that he intended the first two movies for the 6 year old demographic, and ROTJ was intended mostly for 12 year olds. Maybe he's changed his mind, we've always had that dichotomy between "adult" stuff and "kiddie" stuff in Star Wars, but that has just intensified over the years. I don't see that changing under Disney's ownership.

I don't believe that Lucas has had drafts of these stories sitting around since the '70's. I would believe a few scattered rough notes, but nothing amounting to a screenplay. So he'd be starting from scratch, or whomever wrote them would be.

Personally, I don't care what they do, so long as they're good. But if they choose to give them episode numbers, I would love to see something original worthy of the film series, and hopefully better than the prequel trilogy. Who knows, maybe they'll just re-imagine the original trilogy completely. That is sure to alienate many fans, but it will still make a ton of money. MTFBWY

[Connor MacLeod]

Because we don't know anything about it yet? I suspect once we have more to go on than theory and conjecture the discussion will pick back up

This hasn't stopped people from making all sorts of predictions (ranging from 'OH NO STAR WARS IS DOOMED TO SUCK' to 'TRIUMPH OF THE EU BOOK TO MOVIES DEAL') I imagine all the ICS related silliness is tied into the 'doom and gloom' side of the speculation (although to be honest, I'd actually welcome a reboot of the whole damn thing and start from scratch. The ICS crap has long gotten tedious, especially in the way it invariably descends to canon. Something new and fresh would probably actually be GOOD.)

[Galvatron]

But if we look at a hypothetical story (say, wise old Luke as mentor to dashing young hero) who should they cast?

I'd rather see a dashing young heroine.

Ahsoka?

[Grumman]

I'd rather see a dashing young heroine.

Ahsoka?

Not based on my first impressions of the character, but it sounds like she's gotten better since then.

[Tiriol]

Personally I don't care at all if they mess with the EU or not. Is Mickey Mouse going to come to your home and burn all Eu stuff you love if it the new movies don't mesh well with it? Very likely not. Nobody is going to take away Thrawn trilogy from you, or Han Solo's early adventures or Dark Empire or X-Wing novels and whatnot. And if you utterly hate them, good for you. Disney isn't going to take that away, either, although I would pay to see them wipe out Crystal Star from existence.

I just hope that they make decent movies. If they decide to include some of the more popular (within the fandom that is) EU characters, they probably won't be used as main characters or villains (Thrawn isn't such a compelling villain in a Star Wars movie as he currently stands; he'd be right at home in something similar to the latest Sherlock Holmes movie, but Star Wars has only rarely kept military figures as main villains apart from Tarkin who isn't even that memorable when compared to Vader) or even if they are used, expect heavy changes. As long as the story is decent, it's fun and it will have some good old adventures and good versus evil -style battles (unfortunately the PT, despite being better in my opinion than they are usually said to be, did lack many of those elements despite having decent premise and ideas) and fancy stuff going on, it's enough for me. I'm not waiting for them to deliver a new A New Hope and change the cinematic scene for all time, though. And even if they manage to shit out something that would make War of the Dead look good, it will not take away all the other stuff I've enjoyed so far. Vader's reveal will still be chilling, Death Star's destruction is still going to be triumphant and the Ewok celebration is still going to be bittersweet.

[Galvatron]

I'd rather see a dashing young heroine.

Ahsoka?

Not based on my first impressions of the character, but it sounds like she's gotten better since then.

She's not bad, but unless togrutas age more slowly than humans she won't be a young heroine in Episode VII.

I wonder how much scrambling Leland Chee is doing to carve out a slice of the timeline for the new episodes so they don't totally negate the EU.

[jollyreaper]

The worst sin of the EU is that it's just not fun. Star Wars was about big emotions in primary colors playing out in the lives of characters you cared about. It was also done in a balancing act between humor and seriousness and fun measured against consequence. Now maybe the contractural straight jacket hurt EU works featuring canon characters but the same problem persisted through works with original characters.

With the endless sith wars in the EU, it doesn't feel like evil always returns with a hero rising to vanquish it, the sense is more like no matter how much sacrifice is made to put things right, there's always another tedious dark lord to ruin everything. It's a glass half full or half empty kind of thing but it just gets tiresome for me. I think the way it works for most good fiction is you fall in love with the characters and then want to learn about the world they inhabit. With bad stories you either are uninterested or actively rooting for painful deaths.

[Galvatron]

Won't Episode VII totally undermine ROTJ if the Sith return yet again? Conversely, won't the sequel trilogy seem disconnected from the saga and thus inconsequential if the Sith DON'T return?

I seriously don't know how to feel about either scenario, but I do know that I don't want to see any goddamn Ssi-Yuuzhakillik threat show up out of nowhere.

[Rogue 9]

The Sith don't need to return. Palpatine's dead, but that doesn't mean the Empire would just roll over and die.

[jollyreaper]

Doesn't have to be the Sith. The timelines are all screwed up considering the prequels. It doesn't make sense that Han would consider the Jedi a hokey religion when they were kicking ass 30 years ago. There would be visual documentation of their abilities.

That being said, with Jedi wiped out, there would be an expectation for Luke to rebuild the order. And the existence of force as sensitives is likely.

If VII does push a few decades past ROTJ, then we might see upstarts and self-taught masters trying to fill the vacuum, pretenders to the tradition. The true Jedi will try to win over these novices to their way of thinking.

The Jedi Academy is a good idea in theory but made for terrible books in practice. The whole Skywalker extended family had too much stupid grimdark. But the idea of a new republic struggling to bring authority out to the rim worlds holds promise. The idea of self-taught Jedi serving as hired swords, of Jedi knights heading out as representatives of the republic, righting wrongs and winning the people over, that's good stuff. Imperial remnants and regional warlords make sense. There doesn't have to be planet-smashing super weapons and reborn emperors every other book.

If you want to crib from martial arts films, you can always borrow the example of the spiritual warrior and the mercenary who only values power. Through long struggle the spiritual warrior proves his kung-fu is superior and the mercenary realizes power is not mastery. He bows to the true master and asks to be taught. The finding of good in someone who could be taken for evil is a classic theme in these movies. Redemption is classic.

Play that out as just one story in a larger conflict. The questioning within the new republic leadership about the difference between extending civilization versus conquest, whether it is right to impose peace by force, how good intentions go wrong, etc.

[Galvatron]

Don't you think the new trilogy would need a villain that can convincingly threaten Luke? If not, it'd be two hours of Jedi slaughtering stormtroopers.

Imagine TPM without Darth Maul and that's what a sequel trilogy without a Sith would be like (IMO).

[jollyreaper]

It all depends on how far out the sequel starts. Agreed that an opponent needs to feel credible. Doesn't have to be Sith. Could be someone claiming to be Sith because it sounds cool. Given sufficient time, self-taught force users could be quite powerful. Any martial arts system was invented to begin with. Coming from a system with a long history won't make you inherently better than the next guy, especially if he has talent.

Bringing back true Sith just seems as repetitive as reborn emperors and new super weapons.

[Ralin]

Don't you think the new trilogy would need a villain that can convincingly threaten Luke? If not, it'd be two hours of Jedi slaughtering stormtroopers.

Imagine TPM without Darth Maul and that's what a sequel trilogy without a Sith would be like (IMO).

Doesn't have to be a Force-user. Grevious may not have been very impressive on the big screen, but he was still able to go toe to toe with Jedi and even kill more than a few of them. So the precedent is there, and not just in the EU.

Though I personally do like the idea that Palpatine would have had a bunch of minor Dark Side-wielding acolytes and servants running around.

[Darksider]

Though I personally do like the idea that Palpatine would have had a bunch of minor Dark Side-wielding acolytes and servants running around.

No. Pretty much the only thing I agree with about Havok's general "fuck the EU" stance is that having pseudo-sith come flying out of the woodwork after ROTJ completely demeans Vader's sacrifice and the impact of his "prophecy." Have new dark side users, but don't call them sith or give them any connection to Palpatine whatsoever. Vader redeemed himself and wiped out the sith once and for all, end of their fucking story.

[edaw1982]

I'm surprised Lucas is selling "His Baby" off; but I guess it just goes to show not even George Lucas is immune to recessions.
Either way, people will see it and you'll have opinions ranging from "That was fucking awesome...well, compared to SW: I to SW: III.." to "That was utter vomit-inducing crap.

Most people, I suspect will be somewhere in the middle.