Obama wins White House, Red States petitions to Secede.

[Formless]

Could I perhaps make a petition of my own?

Dear moderators of N&P,

The title of this thread ("Obama wins White House, Red States petitions to Secede.") is both misleading and annoying. Even a cursory reading of the OP, let alone a common sense check, reveals two problems with the assertion:

1) not all the states represented by the petition(s) mentioned are "Red" states. Colorado and New York are both Democrat leaning on a whole, and both voted Obama in the last election cycle.

2) the states themselves are not signing nor creating these petitions. Only private citizens with just enough brain cells to live and no more. From some of the discussion in this thread you would think there is a serious movement to re-create the Confederacy when that simply is not the case. As funny as those comments are/should be, its annoying to see a thread sidetracked by humorous asides when the humor is based in falsehood. Besides which, its just too easy.

Anyone who wishes to back this petition, simply quote this post.

With thanks from Colorado,

Formless.

[D.Turtle]

Denied.

And thats the effect of most petitions - unless you have the power to affect change yourself or can catch the ear of someone more powerful.

[TheHammer]

Denied.

And thats the effect of most petitions - unless you have the power to affect change yourself or can catch the ear of someone more powerful.

What if Formless quotes his own post 25,000 times? Wouldn't that give it more validity?

[Formless]

I think having that many posts in one thread would break the forum software.

[D.Turtle]

What if Formless quotes his own post 25,000 times? Wouldn't that give it more validity?

Then I lock the thread.

You cannot win.

[Note: Add comparison to futility of secession attempts from the modern U.S.]

[Captain Seafort]

I think having that many posts in one thread would break the forum software.

Doubt it - the software can cope with over 15k in a thread, so I doubt a few more would make much difference. It makes it a pain in the arse to use the mod tools though.

[EnterpriseSovereign]

I thought the only state that could legally secede was Texas?

[Flagg]

I thought the only state that could legally secede was Texas?

That's a myth perpetrated by ignorant Texans.

[Broomstick]

What makes you think Texas can legally secede?

[Kane Starkiller]

So I created an account on whitehouse.gov and tried to click on the petition for the secession of Texas and my "signature" was counted. Even though I live on the wrong side of the Atlantic and am not nor was I ever a US citizen.
So, yeah, that's about how seriously the "petition" is treated by the US government and how much the 25,000 signatures figure is worth.

[Teebs]

I think it would actually be an interesting question whether a state would be allowed to secede if the proposition had the support of a large majority of the population. Everyone seems to be assuming that because the confederacy was crushed the same thing would happen now. I have the feeling that a peaceful attempt backed by a majority vote would be very difficult for the rest of the country to oppose.

[gigabytelord]

I think it would actually be an interesting question whether a state would be allowed to secede if the proposition had the support of a large majority of the population. Everyone seems to be assuming that because the confederacy was crushed the same thing would happen now. I have the feeling that a peaceful attempt backed by a majority vote would be very difficult for the rest of the country to oppose.

Oh, it would be very easy to oppose, because people like me would be perfectly willing to shove a shotgun right up the ass of every motherfucker who thinks this a a good idea, I know it's only a civilian petition, and that it's not supported by the state legislators of the states in question, but if it were...
Well if they want another civil war then that's just what they'll get.

[Terralthra]

I'd imagine that just like admitting a new state or splitting an existing state, secession petitions would have to be approved by the state legislature in question as well as both houses of Congress. Such is not likely to succeed when based on "our preferred candidate didn't get elected President."

[EnterpriseSovereign]

It's a pity that the Republicans weren't wiped out when the confederacy was crushed, they still seem to be stuck in the pre civil war era. They're what's wrong with America

[The Romulan Republic]

The Republican Party were largely the ones who defeated the Confederacy (I think Lincoln was the first Republican President). Things have obviously changed a lot since then.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Not sure if Lincoln was the first Republican President (discounting the Democratic-Republicans) but the overall point is correct. Back in the time of the Civil War, it was the Republicans who were the ones against slavery and the Confederacy. The parties flipped over time to what we have now.

EDIT: Just checked...Lincoln was the first GOP President. So it should be fairly clear they weren't ALWAYS crazy.

[Dalton]

Trends shift. Strom Thurmond and other segregationists split off from the Dem base to form the Dixiecrats a few decades ago.

[Dalton]

It's a pity that the Republicans weren't wiped out when the confederacy was crushed, they still seem to be stuck in the pre civil war era. They're what's wrong with America

Crack open a history book.

[loomer]

I thought the only state that could legally secede was Texas?

I believe that interpretation was crushed in Texas V White.

[Ritterin Sophia]

I'd imagine that just like admitting a new state or splitting an existing state, secession petitions would have to be approved by the state legislature in question as well as both houses of Congress. Such is not likely to succeed when based on "our preferred candidate didn't get elected President."

I think it would actually be an interesting question whether a state would be allowed to secede if the proposition had the support of a large majority of the population.

You'd need an amendment of the US Constitution. Texas v. White found that the Articles of Confederation establish the Union as perpetual in nature and states this continued through to the Constitution as the preample establishes the Constitution's purpose was to create a more perfect Union, a more perfect Union can not be more dissoluble than it's predecessor.

[General Mung Beans]

I thought the only state that could legally secede was Texas?

I thought the myth was that Texas can break up into five state anytime it wanted to.

Incidentally at least one guy on Facebook wondered how many of those who signed the petition for Texas and some of the other states did so just to be rid of them.

[Sea Skimmer]

I thought the myth was that Texas can break up into five state anytime it wanted to.

That has some slight basis in history because the original congressional resolution to accept Texas in 1845 said that up to four other states would be accepted out of the area being considered. This was back before Texas had its modern boundaries settled, and claimed a much larger chunk of land to the north and west. The issue was resolved by 1850 when Texas ceased claiming so much land, I think they actually got bribed to stop. However the final power to control this was always in federal hands, and Texas today has no more legal basis for forming additional states then any other state. Any state can breakup if its population votes in favor of it and the US congress accepts the resulting new state, as seen in the creation of West Virginia.

[Tolya]

It just shows that GOP are really bad losers. I don't remember New York wanting to leave when Dubya was put into office.

[LaCroix]

Well, they could legally secede if they have a majority for this in the State, the House and Congress. Which could happen if they continue to be dicks...

[K. A. Pital]

/evil me

Kick them out and let them slide further into insanity.