Mumbai attack gunman executed

N&P: Discuss governments, nations, politics and recent related news here.

Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital

Did Mohammad Ajmal Amir Qasab deserve to die?

Yes
47
76%
No, he's guilty, but life imprisonment is punishment enough
12
19%
No, he may be innocent, and deserves a retrial- his "confession" was coerced
3
5%
 
Total votes: 62

User avatar
Sidewinder
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5466
Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
Contact:

Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Sidewinder »

BBC News wrote:Mohammad Ajmal Amir Qasab, the sole surviving gunman in the 2008 Mumbai attacks, has been hanged.

The Pakistani national's plea for mercy to Indian President Pranab Mukherjee was rejected earlier this month.

He was executed in prison in Pune early on Wednesday, the Home Ministry said.

The 60-hour siege of Mumbai began on 26 November 2008. Attacks on the railway station, luxury hotels and a Jewish cultural centre claimed 166 lives. Nine gunmen were also killed.

Qasab and an accomplice carried out the assault on the main railway station, killing 52 people.

He was convicted of murder and other crimes in May 2010. The Supreme Court upheld his death sentence in August.

'Need for secrecy'

R R Patil, Home Minister of Maharashtra state, of which Mumbai is the capital, said Qasab was hanged in the Yerawada prison at 0730 (0200 GMT).

"This is a tribute to all innocent people and police officers who lost their lives in this heinous attack on our nation," Mr Patil was quoted as telling reporters by the Associated Press news agency.

Qasab did not leave behind a will and was buried inside the jail, Maharashtra Chief Minister Prithviraj Chavan said.

Senior officials in Delhi said Qasab's family members had been informed about the execution "through a letter sent by courier".

In Delhi, federal Home Minister Sushil Kumar Shinde said he had signed Qasab's execution order on 7 November, two days after President Pranab Mukherjee rejected his clemency petition.

Qasab, who had been held in Mumbai's Arthur Road jail, was moved to Pune's Yerawada prison two days ago, Prithviraj Chavan said.

"We kept secrecy. It was important to maintain secrecy in this matter," Mr Shinde said, adding that Pakistan had been informed of the execution.

The Indian government was under pressure to act against a man who helped carry out one of the deadliest attacks in the country, says the BBC's Sanjoy Majumder in Delhi.

But the swiftness and secrecy in which the execution took place would have come as a surprise to many, our correspondent adds.

Major political parties in India welcomed Qasab's execution.

A spokesman for the main opposition Bharatiya Janata Party, Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi, said the execution would send a message to India's enemies.

"The hanging of Qasab is a case of better late than never. It also sends out a strong message and warning to India's enemies and to forces across the border that are running factories of terrorism," he said.

Commenting on Qasab's execution, Pakistan's Foreign Ministry spokesman Moazzam Ali Khan said: "We condemned terrorism in all its forms and manifestation... We are willing to co-operate and work closely with all countries of the region to eliminate the scourge of terrorism."

But Pakistan-based banned militant group Lashkar-e-Taiba [LeT], which was blamed for the Mumbai attacks, hailed Qasab as a "hero". He would "inspire other fighters to follow his path", an unnamed LeT commander was quoted by Reuters as saying.

The Pakistani Taliban were "shocked" by the hanging, Reuters quoted Taliban spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan as saying.

Faridkot, the village Qasab came from in the Pakistani province of Punjab, was tense on Wednesday. Villagers who BBC Urdu spoke to denied he had ever lived there. Other reports said residents were openly hostile and threw stones at journalists.

'Help me get out of jail'

There has been no information yet on Qasab's last few days, but his lawyer Raju Ramachandran, who argued his case in the Supreme Court, told Reuters that Qasab was a "worried man" when he last met him in August, before the court upheld his death sentence.

He was scared that he would be hanged and asked the lawyer: "Can you please help me get out of jail?"

Qasab was part of a heavily armed and well-drilled, 10-member militant unit which arrived in Mumbai by sea on 26 November.

The men split into groups to attack various targets. Their assault on the Taj Mahal Hotel, Oberoi Trident Hotel and a Jewish centre went on for more than two days.

Closed-circuit TV camera showed Qasab and an accomplice opening fire on passengers at one of Mumbai's busiest train stations, Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus.

Relations between India and Pakistan deteriorated sharply after India blamed Lashkar-e-Taiba for the attacks.

After initial denials, Pakistan acknowledged that the assault had been partially planned on its territory and that Qasab was a Pakistani citizen. Relations have been gradually improving since then.

Qasab's execution was the first in India since a man convicted of raping and killing a schoolgirl was hanged in the eastern city of Calcutta in 2004.
BBC News, Pune wrote:Since news of Ajmal Qasab's execution has spread, people have started gathering outside the Yerawada prison in Pune.

Most of them appear to be affiliated to Hindu nationalist parties and have been chanting patriotic slogans, distributing toffees and sugar to celebrate the event.

Security has been stepped up outside the jail, which is where Qasab's body has been buried.

Elsewhere in the city of Pune, political parties have planned events to pay tribute to security personnel and civilians who lost their lives in the Mumbai attacks.
Qasab, the Mumbai gunman wrote: Pakistani citizen from Punjab province.

Reports say he received little education and spent his youth alternating between labouring and petty crime

Was 21 years old when he carried out the attacks in Mumbai in 2008

India says he was trained for Mumbai operation by Lashkar-e-Taiba group in a remote camp

Captured on camera at the Chhatrapati Shivaji Terminus, a slight figure in combat trousers and a sweatshirt, clutching an assault rifle

Prosecutors said he had confessed but his lawyers then said his statement had been coerced, and it was retracted
Note to Taliban: If I murdered 166 Pakistani citizens in the name of Jesus Christ, and the Pakistani government subsequently sentenced me to death, I would receive no mercy- nor would I deserve it. And you're surprised Qasab was executed for what he did? Rot in hell, you hypocrits.
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
User avatar
UnderAGreySky
Jedi Knight
Posts: 641
Joined: 2010-01-07 06:39pm
Location: the land of tea and crumpets

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by UnderAGreySky »

Let me preface this post by saying that I'm Indian, I lived in Mumbai/Bombay till I was 25 before moving to the UK four years ago for my Masters and am now working here.

My opinion on the death penalty matches the guidelines laid down by the Supreme Court in that it is applicable to only the "rarest of rare" cases and it has to be demonstrated what qualifies it to be so in a conclusive manner. If I'm not mistaken, any death sentence passed by a lower court gets automatically escalated to the Supreme Court. In my opinion, some people are not worth being kept alive with no purpose to fulfil, they do not serve as a deterrent, they do not deserve lenience or a semblance of a normal life and most importantly, they should never be a possibility of using them as a bargaining chip. The last bit was something I realised through the hijacking of Indian Airlines' IC814.

This case fulfils both the 'rare' and 'conclusive' facets required - there is no doubt it was Kasab as he was arrested while fleeing with the weapons involved and was videoed and photographed in committing the crime. He was an adult when he committed his crime though very young (21), and I don't think illiteracy and youthfulness are mitigating enough factors to warrant a change in sentence.

I'm not "glad" he is dead, I would have been glad if he and his ilk had not existed. I'm merely satisfied that 1) he's dead and 2) the law took its course in a proper manner. I may be "glad" if the planners are hunted down and brought to justice.
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies,
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
User avatar
Irbis
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2262
Joined: 2011-07-15 05:31pm

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Irbis »

www.bbc.co.uk wrote:The hanging of Qasab is a case of better late than never. It also sends out a strong message and warning to India's enemies and to forces across the border that are running factories of terrorism," he said.
What message? That if anyone sends terrorist to kill three digit number of our civilians we might capture and execute a disposable pawn they no longer need anyway?

It was ultimately hollow gesture aimed at bloodthirsty public opinion that neither won't return life to the dead nor will punish real perpetrators who planned it any.
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Losonti Tokash »

India has demonstrated that murder is wrong by way of murdering someone. Good job.
User avatar
Sidewinder
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5466
Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
Contact:

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Sidewinder »

Losonti Tokash wrote:India has demonstrated that murder is wrong by way of murdering someone. Good job.
Are you trolling people? The guy was given a defense lawyer, a trial, a review of this trial by the Supreme Court, before he was finally executed. If you want to complain, complain about how Qasab was allegedly coerced to confess, complain about his lawyer's competence, complain about a mistrial- NOT about the Indian government, whose actions do NOT fit the legal definition of murder.
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Losonti Tokash »

I know you're dumb as shit, but when you engage in the premeditated killing of a person who isn't a threat to anyone and is in fact firmly under your control, it's murder. I never said anything about him being innocent or not having a fair trial. I just disagree with the concept of a death penalty.
User avatar
Sidewinder
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5466
Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
Contact:

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Sidewinder »

Merriam-Webster wrote:murder: the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought
Merriam-Webster wrote:execution: a putting to death especially as a legal penalty
For the Indian government to be guilty of murder, it must not be a legal government, e.g., one formed after a military coup, or installed by a foreign invader. This condition does NOT apply, Losanti Tokash.
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Losonti Tokash »

Cool, a specific form of murder is legal there so it's acceptable to you. What other violations of human rights are acceptable to you if they're legal?
User avatar
Captain Seafort
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 1750
Joined: 2008-10-10 11:52am
Location: Blighty

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Captain Seafort »

Losonti Tokash wrote:Cool, a specific form of murder is legal there so it's acceptable to you.
His point is that part of the definition of murder is that it's illegal. If it's legal, then by definition it isn't murder. You may disagree with execution in principle, but to use such a specific legal term to describe it is ludicrous.
User avatar
Flagg
CUNTS FOR EYES!
Posts: 12797
Joined: 2005-06-09 09:56pm
Location: Hell. In The Room Right Next to Reagan. He's Fucking Bonzo. No, wait... Bonzo's fucking HIM.

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Flagg »

Captain Seafort wrote:
Losonti Tokash wrote:Cool, a specific form of murder is legal there so it's acceptable to you.
His point is that part of the definition of murder is that it's illegal. If it's legal, then by definition it isn't murder. You may disagree with execution in principle, but to use such a specific legal term to describe it is ludicrous.
Legalism won't get you too far here, buddy.
We pissing our pants yet?
-Negan

You got your shittin' pants on? Because you’re about to
Shit. Your. Pants!
-Negan

He who can,
does; he who cannot, teaches.
-George Bernard Shaw
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Losonti Tokash »

Exactly. Just going "well it's not wrong if it's legal" is such an obviously stupid concept that I'm surprised you can say it with a straight face.
User avatar
UnderAGreySky
Jedi Knight
Posts: 641
Joined: 2010-01-07 06:39pm
Location: the land of tea and crumpets

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by UnderAGreySky »

It's not "It's not wrong if it's legal". It is "it's not murder if it's legal". Homicide in self-defence is also not counted as murder. This is an execution, whether you like it or not, whether you think it's right or not.
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies,
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Losonti Tokash »

So it's actually about creating emotional distance from the word "murder" because it makes you uncomfortable. But since you insist, instead of using "murder" for shorthand I will instead call it "the premeditated killing of a defenseless human being who was at all times under their direct power and control." With, of course, the intended purpose of sending a message that killing defenseless people is wrong.
User avatar
K. A. Pital
Glamorous Commie
Posts: 20813
Joined: 2003-02-26 11:39am
Location: Elysium

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by K. A. Pital »

I see no reason why India should spend a dime on this man's continued life when it has hundreds of thousands of malnourished in the rural areas with extremely high mortality. Plain and simple - the life of ordinary Indians from rural regions is clearly not worth any less than his.

Ideally though I'd keep him alive. After all, we don't need martyrs.
Lì ci sono chiese, macerie, moschee e questure, lì frontiere, prezzi inaccessibile e freddure
Lì paludi, minacce, cecchini coi fucili, documenti, file notturne e clandestini
Qui incontri, lotte, passi sincronizzati, colori, capannelli non autorizzati,
Uccelli migratori, reti, informazioni, piazze di Tutti i like pazze di passioni...

...La tranquillità è importante ma la libertà è tutto!
Assalti Frontali
User avatar
UnderAGreySky
Jedi Knight
Posts: 641
Joined: 2010-01-07 06:39pm
Location: the land of tea and crumpets

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by UnderAGreySky »

Losonti Tokash wrote:So it's actually about creating emotional distance from the word "murder" because it makes you uncomfortable. But since you insist, instead of using "murder" for shorthand I will instead call it "the premeditated killing of a defenseless human being who was at all times under their direct power and control." With, of course, the intended purpose of sending a message that killing defenseless people is wrong.
Emotional distance? No. Legal distinction, yes.

You seem to believe that the word 'execution' has either a positive or neutral connotation to me (and others) as compared to 'murder', which is agreeably negative. I posit that 'execution' can easily be a negative word, given the context and inflection it is used. In fact, I see it as far more negative than 'capital punishment', which sounds almost like a euphemism.

I have no argument with that entire sentence that you choose to use to describe the event, though I think there is single word for it... ex... exe... exek... it'll come to me some time.

Actually, it just struck me that you're missing one very important word in your wordy description.

"Guilty".

Which is actually what separates the action of execution from what *you* think is the purpose of the action.

And what makes you think the intended purpose is to send a message that "killing defenseless people is wrong"? My interpretation is that the purposes of this, er, PKoaDHBWWAATU(our)DPaC are

1) killing and injuring innocent people in large numbers* is a bad thing
2) killing and injuring large numbers of innocent people with the intent to terrorise the populace is also a bad thing
3) These two (really bad) things, when done together are really, really bad.
Stas Bush wrote:I see no reason why India should spend a dime on this man's continued life when it has hundreds of thousands of malnourished in the rural areas with extremely high mortality. Plain and simple - the life of ordinary Indians from rural regions is clearly not worth any less than his.

Ideally though I'd keep him alive. After all, we don't need martyrs.
I did think about this, in that martyrs supposedly inspire wannabes. But then again I don't think the bastards who planned all this require any such inspiration. There is also the view that not executing such an offender could be viewed as cowardice, emboldening the opposition. Not sure I subscribe to that theory either,.
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies,
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
User avatar
Nephtys
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 6227
Joined: 2005-04-02 10:54pm
Location: South Cali... where life is cheap!

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Nephtys »

Are we seriously opening the can of worms, again, about capital punishment here? And more specifically, the inherent morality or immorality of it? I mean, I can understand arguments why one may not want to execute a malefactor for specific reasons (ie, creating a martyr, sending the wrong message, etc). But in this case, if we leave out strategic reasons not to execute someone... what is the moral difference between killing a definite, confirmed and convicted mass murdering terrorist gunman, and leaving them to rot for life in a hole in the ground?

Quite frankly, they amount to the same thing. And putting him in a hole in the ground dead is cleaner.
User avatar
fgalkin
Carvin' Marvin
Posts: 14557
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:51pm
Location: Land of the Mountain Fascists
Contact:

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by fgalkin »

Losonti Tokash wrote:I know you're dumb as shit, but when you engage in the premeditated killing of a person who isn't a threat to anyone and is in fact firmly under your control, it's murder. I never said anything about him being innocent or not having a fair trial. I just disagree with the concept of a death penalty.
Prove that he isn't a threat to anyone. Prove that he will always remain under your control (and not, say, escape or be busted out of prison).

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Losonti Tokash »

It's funny all the excuses you guys make to justify why killing someone is okay if you don't like him.

"But it's legal!"
"Keeping people alive takes up resources!"
"Being in prison is just as bad as being murdered!"
"You can't prove he won't get superpowers and kill EVERYONE!"
User avatar
fgalkin
Carvin' Marvin
Posts: 14557
Joined: 2002-07-03 11:51pm
Location: Land of the Mountain Fascists
Contact:

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by fgalkin »

Losonti Tokash wrote:It's funny all the excuses you guys make to justify why killing someone is okay if you don't like him.

"But it's legal!"
"Keeping people alive takes up resources!"
"Being in prison is just as bad as being murdered!"
"You can't prove he won't get superpowers and kill EVERYONE!"
And your response is to go "lalalala, can't hear you"?

But hey, I actually agree with you. Torturing the guy for the rest of his natural life IS so much better and you can easily ensure that he will never become a threat by amputating his limbs or something.

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin
User avatar
Losonti Tokash
Sith Devotee
Posts: 2916
Joined: 2004-09-29 03:02pm

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Losonti Tokash »

Man, not only are you a liar, you're bringing your torture fantasies in here. It's sad enough you can't talk like an adult, but this really isn't the place to be posting your wank material.

Now, if you can stop masturbating to Hostel for a few minutes and try reading, you might realize "yeah, it is pretty stupid to punish murder with murder and that my hilarious 'challenge' would be amazingly easy to turn on itself because it makes no fucking sense."
weemadando
SMAKIBBFB
Posts: 19195
Joined: 2002-07-28 12:30pm
Contact:

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by weemadando »

Secrecy in a death penalty trial gets my hackles up. Due process may have been followed, but my opposition to the death penalty combined with the secrecy with which some steps were taken as well as the alleged coercion make me deeply uneasy.

If you are too afraid to put it all out there (barring situations where an asset may be threatened due to exposure) then maybe you shouldn't be killing people and saying it was right.

It could be that it was all legit (and let's face it the evidence is pretty much against him here), but he shouldn't have been executed. It serves no purpose other than to create a martyr and deny him the possibility of justice himself. Because as repugnant as his crimes may have been, if he was tortured into confessing as alleged then let him live to see that case through.
User avatar
Sidewinder
Sith Acolyte
Posts: 5466
Joined: 2005-05-18 10:23pm
Location: Feasting on those who fell in battle
Contact:

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Sidewinder »

Losonti Tokash wrote:Man, not only are you a liar, you're bringing your torture fantasies in here.
You're being stupid. India does NOT have supermax prisons, which would be this guy's likely destination if he was arrested in the US. Assuming he's not kept in isolation- which, like it or not, is an opportunity for vengeful Indians to starve him, freeze him (leave the heat turned down in winter), fry him (leave the AC turned down in summer), etc.- he can look forward to daily beatings, rape, or- assuming the guards look the other way- murder by wannabe vigilantes among the prisoners. Unless he was transferred to a Pakistani prison, he will SUFFER, and there's a snowball's chance in hell that India will approve of this transfer.
Please do not make Americans fight giant monsters.

Those gun nuts do not understand the meaning of "overkill," and will simply use weapon after weapon of mass destruction (WMD) until the monster is dead, or until they run out of weapons.

They have more WMD than there are monsters for us to fight. (More insanity here.)
User avatar
The Duchess of Zeon
Gözde
Posts: 14566
Joined: 2002-09-18 01:06am
Location: Exiled in the Pale of Settlement.

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

It isn't wrong because individual rights are not supreme--collective rights of society are more important when the two come into direct conflict, and in this case the risk that his imprisonment would spur acts of hostage-taking to force his release as well as the argument that the political nature of the crime requires a demonstration of strength and ceremony from the state to reassert its sovereignty in its own soil, make the act of execution absolutely necessary and commendable.
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. -- Wikipedia's No Original Research policy page.

In 1966 the Soviets find something on the dark side of the Moon. In 2104 they come back. -- Red Banner / White Star, a nBSG continuation story. Updated to Chapter 4.0 -- 14 January 2013.
Grumman
Jedi Council Member
Posts: 2488
Joined: 2011-12-10 09:13am

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by Grumman »

weemadando wrote:Secrecy in a death penalty trial gets my hackles up.
I got the impression that the secrecy was around the execution, not the trial itself. Being unwilling to present an actual case for why a prisoner deserves to die is of course incredibly dangerous, but it sounds like the Indians were merely concealing the specifics of how the sentence would be carried out - a more reasonable precaution.
User avatar
UnderAGreySky
Jedi Knight
Posts: 641
Joined: 2010-01-07 06:39pm
Location: the land of tea and crumpets

Re: Mumbai attack gunman executed

Post by UnderAGreySky »

Grumman wrote:
weemadando wrote:Secrecy in a death penalty trial gets my hackles up.
I got the impression that the secrecy was around the execution, not the trial itself. Being unwilling to present an actual case for why a prisoner deserves to die is of course incredibly dangerous, but it sounds like the Indians were merely concealing the specifics of how the sentence would be carried out - a more reasonable precaution.
This is correct. The trial was well-publicised, took a fair bit of time (though not as long as others can take, this one was fast-tracked). People have been baying for his blood since the day he was arrested (November 2008).
Losonti Tokash wrote:It's funny all the excuses you guys make to justify why killing someone is okay if you don't like him.

"But it's legal!"
"Keeping people alive takes up resources!"
"Being in prison is just as bad as being murdered!"
"You can't prove he won't get superpowers and kill EVERYONE!"
What would it take for you to distinguish between 'excuse' and 'legal reason'?

Will you answer my previous post?

He was not killed because I (we) don't "like him". He was killed because he broke the law in the most egregious way and the punishment for that is death. You are ascribing motives to us that you have no proof for and that I declare are not only wrong, but proves that all you can do is argue from emotion and that maybe you don't really have an argument at all.
Sidewinder wrote:freeze him (leave the heat turned down in winter), fry him (leave the AC turned down in summer)
Not really familiar with the Indian prison system, are you? :lol:
Can't keep my eyes from the circling skies,
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
Post Reply