UN vote on Palestine

[mr friendly guy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20550864

Palestinians win upgraded UN status by wide margin

The UN General Assembly has voted to grant the Palestinians non-member observer state status - a move strongly opposed by Israel and the US.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas told the assembly the vote was the "last chance to save the two-state solution" with Israel.

Israel's envoy to the UN said the bid pushed peace process "backwards", while the US said the move was "unfortunate".

The assembly voted 138-9 in favour, with 41 nations abstaining.

Hundreds of Palestinians celebrated on the streets of Ramallah, in the West Bank, after the result was announced.

'Birth certificate'
"Sixty-five years ago on this day, the United Nations General Assembly adopted resolution 181, which partitioned the land of historic Palestine into two states and became the birth certificate for Israel," Mr Abbas said shortly before the vote in New York.

"The General Assembly is called upon today to issue a birth certificate of the reality of the State of Palestine," he said.

The Israeli ambassador to the UN, Ron Prosor, said "the only way to reach peace is through agreements" between the parties, not at the UN.

"No decision by the UN can break the 4,000-year-old bond between the people of Israel and the land of Israel," he said.

Opponents of the bid say a Palestinian state should emerge only out of bilateral negotiations, as set out in the 1993 Oslo peace accords under which the Palestinian Authority was established.

Speaking after the vote, the US ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, urged the Palestinians and Israel to resume direct peace talks and warned against unilateral actions.

US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton called the vote "unfortunate and counter-productive", saying it put more obstacles on the path to peace.

"By going to the UN , the Palestinians have violated the agreements with Israel and Israel will act accordingly," said the office of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Twitter.

The UK abstained from the vote, as did Germany. The Czech Republic, the Marshall Islands and Panama were among the nations voting with the US and Israel.

In the West Bank, crowds celebrated the vote by waving flags and chanting "God is great!"

"For the first time, there will be a state called Palestine, with the recognition of the entire world," Amir Hamdan was quoted as saying by the Associated Press news agency.

"Today the world will hear our voice," he added.

Symbolic milestone
The Palestinians are seeking UN recognition of a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem, the lands Israel captured in 1967.

While the move is seen as a symbolic milestone in Palestinian ambitions for statehood, the "Yes" vote will also have a practical diplomatic effect, says the BBC's Barbara Plett, at the UN.

It would allow the Palestinians to participate in debates at the UN and improve their chances of joining UN agencies and bodies like the International Criminal Court.

Last year, Mr Abbas asked the UN Security Council to admit the Palestinians as a member state, but that was opposed by the US.

Mr Abbas was much criticised by many Palestinians for remaining on the sidelines of the conflict earlier this month in Gaza and efforts to achieve a ceasefire with Israel.

His Fatah movement, based in the West Bank, is deeply split from the militant Hamas movement which governs Gaza.

Gaza's Prime Minister Ismael Haniyeh said in a statement sent to the BBC that Hamas' "support for the UN bid is based on the 'rule of non-recognition of the occupier'... and the right of Palestinians to return to their homeland".

Posted without comment.

[Ace Pace]

Good. Despite thinking that the chance of Palestinian self government actually coming true being nill, anything that helps them build some semblance of self government, and less reliance on Israel, will help kick Israel out of the settlements, out of that area.

On the other hand, I hope this gives the Palestinian government, and not the Palestinian people, more visibility, more world coverage on their myriad issues.

[Mr Bean]

All it requires is one American President not wedded to the state of Israel for Palestine to get statehood. We are literally the roadblock between the Palestinians and full statehood. Taking the exact same path that Israel took (And the irony's are not lost on anyone involved in the process). We can stop it but we can't undo it, so all it would take is one American President to tell his Ambassador to abstain and they could get full statehood.

It would be in name only but it's one of the long sticking points to a two state solution is that it's in Israel best interests to use the US to ensure the rest of the world never legitimizes Palestine without their okay. If only from a bargaining standpoint it's in Israel's interest.

*Edit now with who voted no

Voting "no" Thursday were Israel, the United States and Canada, joined by the Czech Republic, Panama and several Pacific island nations: Marshall Islands, Micronesia, Nauru and Palau. The Pacific nations typically support the U.S. and Israel at the U.N. on key General Assembly resolutions.

[SirNitram]

Sadly, this will only make things worse in the short term. Israel is gonna go berserk, thanks to it's current government.

[GrandMasterTerwynn]

Sadly, this will only make things worse in the short term. Israel is gonna go berserk, thanks to it's current government.

I'm not sure there's any such thing as an Israeli government that wouldn't "go berserk" due to the Palestinians gaining more international legitimacy. Of course, the Palestinian upgrade in the UN is still largely symbolic; since Israel has a guaranteed veto in the Security Council for any substantial action the UN might take that'd have real impact on it.

[Omeganian]

Sadly, this will only make things worse in the short term. Israel is gonna go berserk, thanks to it's current government.

Why? What can it possibly change?

[Ace Pace]

Sadly, this will only make things worse in the short term. Israel is gonna go berserk, thanks to it's current government.

Why? What can it possibly change?

Random retributions, like canceling tax collection/payment for the Pal government (leaving it without funding), cutting off water supply maintenance, other such things.

[Omeganian]

Sadly, this will only make things worse in the short term. Israel is gonna go berserk, thanks to it's current government.

Why? What can it possibly change?

Random retributions, like canceling tax collection/payment for the Pal government (leaving it without funding), cutting off water supply maintenance, other such things.

You mean Israel will try to treat Palestinians like a state? How is that a bad thing?

[eyl]

Random retributions, like canceling tax collection/payment for the Pal government (leaving it without funding), cutting off water supply maintenance, other such things.

You mean Israel will try to treat Palestinians like a state? How is that a bad thing?

Beyond them not having revenue, water, electricity, etc.?

[Omeganian]

Random retributions, like canceling tax collection/payment for the Pal government (leaving it without funding), cutting off water supply maintenance, other such things.

You mean Israel will try to treat Palestinians like a state? How is that a bad thing?

Beyond them not having revenue, water, electricity, etc.?

Then why aren't the Palestinians starting with that, instead of announcing an independent state every other weekend. One might think they're not taking the matter seriously...

[Mr Bean]

Beyond them not having revenue, water, electricity, etc.?

Then why aren't the Palestinians starting with that, instead of announcing an independent state every other weekend. One might think they're not taking the matter seriously...

...You do know that Israel makes a point of blowing up government offices, substations, waste water treatment plants and things that let the Palestinians not be reliant on the Israeli's for everything? And that one of these little conflicts flairs up every four years or so and every four years anything the Palestinians build gets blown up?

Not to mention the blockade means lots of the machinery and materials necessary are not allowed into the Palestinian territories.

[Ace Pace]

Sadly, this will only make things worse in the short term. Israel is gonna go berserk, thanks to it's current government.

And here we go...!

Google translate fun

The day after the political debacle | | response to UN recognition of Palestine: Netanyahu decided on a wave of construction in the settlements
Build 3,000 housing units in East Jerusalem - from the West Bank. Despite the commitment Obama also promoted construction plan in E1 will make it hard for the establishment of a Palestinian state continuous

Israel decided to respond to the Palestinian move at the UN and authorize immediate construction of about 3,000 housing units in East Jerusalem and Israeli settlements in the West Bank. senior political source said that continued construction is done according to the map of Israel's strategic interests.

..


Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, like his predecessors Ariel Sharon and Ehud Olmert gave at the beginning of his term commitment to the U.S. administration not to build in this area. If the program will be promoted and will be building area would be a violation of Netanyahu's commitment to U.S. President Obama.

So basically, the government has started reacting, and wildly.

And hey, free tip to all Israel-watchers, the January elections? They're not going to change anything.

[Omeganian]

Beyond them not having revenue, water, electricity, etc.?

Then why aren't the Palestinians starting with that, instead of announcing an independent state every other weekend. One might think they're not taking the matter seriously...

...You do know that Israel makes a point of blowing up government offices, substations, waste water treatment plants and things that let the Palestinians not be reliant on the Israeli's for everything? And that one of these little conflicts flairs up every four years or so and every four years anything the Palestinians build gets blown up?

Well, I'm not familiar with the statistics of Israel systematically destroying Palestinian infrastructure (or ratio of Palestinian built infrastructure vs Israel built), but, AFAIK, they manage quite well on their own - like with the Gush Katif greenhouses.

Not to mention the blockade means lots of the machinery and materials necessary are not allowed into the Palestinian territories.

In other worlds, the terrorists are the worst enemy of the Palestinian independence. Figures.

[SirNitram]

So basically, Ace, the response is to try and claim even more by illegal settlements. Whee.

[Ace Pace]

So basically, Ace, the response is to try and claim even more by illegal settlements. Whee.

If I understand it right, the Israeli thinking here is carrot stick. If the Pal government does what we want it to do (shut up, prevent terror attacks, spend money on corruption) then we give it more money, provide it with basic living assistance. If it doesn't, we "punish" it by withdrawing money, preventing aid and of course, settlements.

The Israeli government prefers to push the problem down the road, and not deal with the central issue. It's a tenet of faith in the government that the Palestine government is non functional and can only do one job right, which is to prevent terror. If it won't even do that, the government will be demolished and another one be put in place.

Wheee indeed.

[SirNitram]

So they believe the Palestinians can stop terrorist attacks from it's citizens... Something not even the US can do... Yet they cannot do anything basic. You're right, it MUST be a tenet of faith, because logic vomits at that.

[Mr Bean]

Nitram your ignoring the larger issue as was pointed out by Cenk Uyger over at TYT.

The current Israeli response falls right into the existing model of responses. What do I mean by that?
During the various military actions over the past two decades the only time Israel announces new settlements is when some effort is made to advance the peace process. Did Israel announce new settlements after the Lebanon incident in 2006? Nope but they did in response during the Annapolis Peace Conference. Did they announce new settlements after 2008 operations against Gaza? No but they did just before Obama visited a few months later during his Cario speech endorsing a two state solution.

Likewise what was the reaction after Palestinian recognition at the UN? More settlements. While it does not track 100% (Israel is forever announcing new settlements) they always happen within a few days of any major step in negotiations not involving Israel. Or whenever any American President starts talking two state solution and people think he's serious or some foreign government announce support for the Palestinians.

They do not announce them right after bombing Gaza or when active fighting is going on, only in reaction anything but the use of force.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

It's a pity Sharon's dead (in all the ways that count). He seemed to have realized late in his life with the Gaza withdrawal that he could essentially end the matter by choosing what territory to withdraw from, and then withdrawing from it, and waving his hand at the Palestinians goodbye. The likelihood of these rocket attacks from Gaza if the same thing had been done to the West Bank would be quite small.

Someone will have to do it, and the division of East Jerusalem in two will be painful when it comes, and the neutral zones along the border, like the one near Latrun, as well as Gush Eitzon, are probably Israeli forever now, but these settlements will provide nice homes to the Palestinians when it's finally settled. Mind you, the Palestinian population is so radicalized there will probably be wars for a long time, but with one population on one side of the border and another on the other, it will ultimately become static and settled and peace will finally occur. This could of course easily be only decades after Palestinian independence, but nobody is willing to think in the long term in Israel like that.