Israel claims more living space in the east

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Israel claims more living space in the east

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Israel Pushing Controversial Settlements After U.N. Vote
By JODI RUDOREN
JERUSALEM — Israel is moving forward with development of Jewish settlements in a contentious area east of Jerusalem, defying the United States by advancing a project that has long been condemned by international leaders as effectively dooming any prospect of a two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

One day after the United Nations General Assembly voted overwhelmingly to upgrade the Palestinians’ status, a senior Israeli official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the government would pursue “preliminary zoning and planning preparations” for a development that would separate the West Bank cities of Ramallah and Bethlehem from Jerusalem — preventing the possibility of a viable, contiguous Palestinian state.

The development, in an open area known as E1, would connect the large settlement town of Maale Adumim to Jerusalem. Israel also authorized the construction of 3,000 new housing units in parts of East Jerusalem and the West Bank.

The timing of the twin actions seemed aimed at punishing the Palestinians for their United Nations bid, and appeared to demonstrate that hard-liners in the government had prevailed after days of debate over how to respond. They marked a surprising turnaround after a growing sense in recent days that Israeli leaders had acceded to pressure from Washington not to react quickly or harshly.

“This is a new act of defiance from the Israeli government,” Saab Erekat, the Palestinians’ chief negotiator, said in a statement. “At a moment where the Palestinian leadership is doing every single effort to save the two-state solution, the Israeli government does everything possible to destroy it.”

Much of the world considers settlements in East Jerusalem and the West Bank to be illegal under international law, and the United States has vigorously opposed development of E1 for nearly two decades. On Friday, Tommy Vietor, a White House spokesman, condemned the move, citing Washington’s “longstanding opposition to settlements and East Jerusalem construction and announcements.”

“We believe these actions are counterproductive and make it harder to resume direct negotiations or achieve a two-state solution,” Mr. Vietor said. “Direct negotiations remain our goal, and we encourage all parties to take steps to make that easier to achieve.”

The office of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu refused to comment on the zoning and construction decisions, which were made Thursday night around the time of the General Assembly vote. But Israel has long maintained its right to develop neighborhoods throughout East Jerusalem and the West Bank — more than 500,000 Jews already live there — and Mr. Netanyahu, responding to the United Nations speech by President Mahmoud Abbas of the Palestinian Authority, said, “Someone who wants peace does not talk in such a manner.”

While Israel has frequently announced settlement expansions at delicate political moments, often to its detriment, the E1 move came as a shock, after a week in which both Israelis and Palestinians toned down their rhetoric about day-after responses to the United Nations bid. Avigdor Lieberman, the ultranationalist foreign minister who for months denounced the Palestinian initiative as “diplomatic terrorism” and said Israel should consider severe sanctions against the Palestinian Authority, told reporters in recent days that there would be “no automatic response.”

Mr. Erekat’s spokesman declined to discuss whether the Palestinians would use their upgraded status, as a nonmember observer state with access to United Nations institutions, to pursue a case in International Criminal Court regarding E1 or the other settlement expansion. Less contentious moves were already in progress: the Palestinian Authority has begun changing its name to “Palestine” on official documents, contracts and Web sites, and several nations are considering raising the level of diplomatic relations, giving Palestinian envoys the title of ambassador.

All but one European country voted with the Palestinians or abstained in Thursday’s United Nations vote, many of them citing concerns about settlements in West Bank and East Jerusalem territories Israel captured in the 1967 war. The settlement of E1, a 4.6-square-mile expanse of hilly parkland where some Bedouins have camps and a police station was opened in 2008, could further increase Israel’s international isolation.

After a day in which Israeli government officials insisted that the United Nations vote was a purely symbolic one that had not changed anything on the ground, the revelation of the development moves late Friday stunned and outraged even some of Mr. Netanyahu’s supporters.

“A number of important countries are telling us that they think it’s wrong to do settlements, and these are our best friends,” noted one senior government official, speaking on the condition of anonymity for fear of being fired. “After they say this directly or indirectly, the immediate response is to build more settlements, even in one of the most controversial areas, E1? How does that make sense? What is the message the government is sending its best friends?”

Dani Dayan, the leader of Israel’s settler movement, said the development of E1 was an “important Israeli strategic interest,” but he, too, was somewhat dismayed by the timing.

“We don’t like the idea of developing our communities as a sort of retaliatory or punitive step,” Mr. Dayan said. “I think it should be done routinely. We have a legal and a political and a moral right to build.”

Shelly Yacimovich, head of the left-wing Labor Party, also questioned the strategy. “Construction in the Jewish neighborhoods of Jerusalem is not controversial,” she said in a television interview Friday night. “But to do this now? That’s sticking a finger in the eye. It’s raising the height of the flames. And it’s already been proven that raising the level of the flames isn’t good for us.”

It is hardly the first time Israel has been criticized for awkward timing on settlement expansion. In August 2011, a month before a previous bid by Mr. Abbas for upgraded status at the United Nations Security Council, Israel’s Interior Ministry gave final approval for the construction of a 1,600-unit apartment complex in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Ramat Shlomo. On the eve of an April 2011 meeting between President Obama and Israel’s president, Shimon Peres, a Jerusalem planning committee gave its go-ahead for 1,000 units in Gilo, a neighborhood in the city’s south that was Jordanian territory before 1967. And in 2010, Mr. Netanyahu was embarrassed by an early approval of the Ramat Shlomo development issued hours after a Jerusalem visit by Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr.

But E1 — where a preliminary plan approved years ago calls for 3,910 housing units, 2,192 hotel rooms and an industrial park in addition to the police station — is more contentious than all those projects combined. Presidents Bill Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama have all strenuously objected to any settlement there, and it is internationally known as the third rail for the peace process.

Dani Seidemann, a Jerusalem lawyer and peace activist, described E1 as “the fatal heart attack of the two-state solution” and said Mr. Netanyahu was wielding “the doomsday weapon.”

“This is punitive: ‘Don’t mess with me — you have the ability to get the votes, I have the ability to build the buildings,’ ” Mr. Seidemann said, imagining the prime minister’s reasoning.

Still, Mr. Seidemann and others noted that the approval was only for zoning and planning, early steps in a months-long development process before bulldozers begin work, and could be just what he called “the dramatic flourish.”

“We’re going to stop this,” he said. “If Netanyahu decides to pursue E1, Henny Penny the sky will fall on him. If he pursues this, Israel is going to find itself isolated in a non-wartime situation as we have never been before.”

Peter Baker contributed reporting from Hatfield, Pa.
This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: November 30, 2012


An earlier version of this article misspelled the given name and surname of the leader of the Israeli Labor Party. She is Shelly Yacimovich, not Shelley Yachnimovich.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by Simon_Jester »

I just want to make sure I get the Israeli position here, I think it goes like this:

"If you are recognizing Palestine as a state, without our being involved in the negotiations, it defeats our ability to negotiate a two-state solution that satisfies us about security, demographics, and whatever. Therefore, your attempt to extend diplomatic recognition effectively means that we feel no need to leave the option of a realistic two-state solution open. Obviously you are prepared to act without our involvement, so why should you care if we act without your involvement?"

I am not at all saying I agree with this, but does it sound like what they're thinking by timing it this way?
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by Edi »

No, Simon, You have it all wrong. Israel just did what they were intending to do in any case, but now frames is it as if it is the fault of the UN for recognizing the Palestinians as an observer state. They do not have and never have had any intention of good faith negotiations since Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish extremist.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by wautd »

Israel behaving like a childish prick and the US continues to be its bitch. News at 11.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

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Edi wrote:No, Simon, You have it all wrong. Israel just did what they were intending to do in any case, but now frames is it as if it is the fault of the UN for recognizing the Palestinians as an observer state. They do not have and never have had any intention of good faith negotiations since Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated by a Jewish extremist.
It would be a very strange coincidence if the Israelis had planned all along, or even for any great length of time, to announce their intent to develop the E1 territory at a time that just happened to be a few hours after the UN extended non-voting membership to Palestine.

It seems more likely to me that that the Israelis were holding something like this option in reserve, and that they were planning to announce it only if something pissed them off. Even if they never had any problem with the idea of doing it, the timing is so close that it's hard to imagine that it's coincidence or 'just those Israeli bastards doing what they would have done anyway.'


Also, I think you missed an important point in my post, which is that I'm trying to figure out what the hell the Israelis are thinking. You can call them a bunch of biased sanctimonious dickheads out to sabotage the peace process and screw Palestine. You can say "fuck Israel!" all you like. I really don't care. That's fine by me, I'm not even vaguely interested in trying to argue about that. But they're still homo sapiens in Israel, they do have brains and make decisions and this must have made some kind of sense to them. They've been leaving E1 alone for a long time, for whatever reasons.

And surely, the Israeli government would react to Palestine's change of status by getting pissed off, or their spokesmen wouldn't be saying it was a bad idea because they wouldn't care. So why wouldn't they be thinking in their minds that the change of status represents a shift in international attitude? Inside their heads, Palestinian statehood is presumably something that shouldn't happen without their permission, so it's no surprise they get angry and do aggressive, obnoxious things when someone else takes a step in that direction without asking them or caring what they say about it.

Again, I don't care about whether the Israelis are jerks or whatever, I'm trying to figure out what's going on in their brains other than "we are the bad guys."
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

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This is just how it feels to me, Jester, but it feels like the Israelis felt stung and betrayed by the vote getting passed, and they wanted to strike back, to teach the Palestinians and their supporters a lesson of what happens when you go against Israel. Not only as revenge, but as a cautionary lesson for the future.
Exactly what Israel has so much against this "enhanced observer state" status, which seems pretty paper-tiger to me, I still can't really get my head around. I suppose they're worried it'll increase the Palestinian's visibility.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by Lord Zentei »

They're afraid of increased visibility, and more than that they're probably afraid of creeping statehood for the Palestinians without a peace settlement being reached in tandem with that. Today, observer status; tomorrow, who knows what else they'll get. And they're all to aware how isolated they are internationally, so they feel cornered.

But I get the impression that many in Israeli politics don't want statehood in conjunction with peace, but continued stasis. There really is no endgame in the strategy of the more radical groups, so the powers that be are forced to juggle the status quo as best they can.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

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No Simon, what you're missing is that this gives Israel the perfect excuse to go ahead with something they have wanted to do for a long time, or at least Netanyahoo has. They can justify it as being the fault of the international community and the Palestinians instead and how Israel is just asserting itself against pressure or whatever bullshit they want.

They don't think of themselves as the bad guys and they by and large don't give a shit about what anyone else thinks. They simply consider all of West Bank and the other areas there as theirs by fiat and they act in order to solidify their control and possession over that territory by any means that are convenient. The UN decision about the Palestinians gives them the ability to do this with the convenient label, because they can use that to distract from their normal policy. If they had gone ahead with the settlement building in the absence of the UN decision about Palestinian observer status, they'd have gotten an even more massive backlash and would have no excuses to fall back on.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

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One of the things that Israel is apparently really concerned about is that with enhanced status, it's possible that the Palestinians will have increased access to international organizations, especially the International Criminal Court. Since most of the world considers a whole lot of those settlements to be illegal, having the ICC involved can only look to isolate Israel even more, from their point of view.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

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Edi wrote:No Simon, what you're missing is that this gives Israel the perfect excuse to go ahead with something they have wanted to do for a long time, or at least Netanyahoo has. They can justify it as being the fault of the international community and the Palestinians instead and how Israel is just asserting itself against pressure or whatever bullshit they want.
I deal with self-justifying assholes pretty often.

One constant is that they do think in terms like "you're screwing me over by punishing me for my own actions. Stop holding me responsible, and we won't have a problem!" It's insane but they think that way. "Right" is "I get my way," "wrong" or "unfair" or "disrespectful" is anything else.

Even Israelis who are theoretically willing to consider two-state solutions want it to be on Israel's terms, or at least for Israel to get 90% of the advantages. Some of this is based on sane objections (guaranteeing that Palestinian territory won't be used for foreign armies to position firebases that could devastate much of Israel quickly). Some of it is not. Like the idea of hanging onto settlements constructed in the last decade or two, at the Palestinians' expense, and which the Palestinians as a whole never got a fair chance to oppose).

So I really would bet on a lot of Israelis reacting to this as if they, personally, have been betrayed when the UN takes a step toward calling Palestine a legitimate state, without consulting the Israelis on all the economic and military issues where Israel is trying to get all these concessions. Because to them, that just means the UN being 'unfair.'

Reacting by saying "fine, you do what you want, I'll just start ignoring your rules and doing what I want because you're a meanie who holds me accountable!" is SO consistent with that attitude.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

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A question to those with more knowledge: I've heard it bandied about that the new settlements are arranged to simply bisect the West Bank. Is this true?
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

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Yes.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

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Two things are going ahead. One is the announced 3,000 new houses and apartments, which are spread across the west bank, none of that means all that much strategically, taken as a whole the settlement-road system already bisects the West Bank about fifteen different ways. Settlements generally don't get bigger inside the wire when they add homes like this.

What's a much bigger deal is the announcement that they are going to go ahead with a longer term project building up the area called Maale Adumim. This is a large settlement due east of Jerusalem. Importantly while it is the third largest settlement, all work on it has been frozen for years, and it was never encircled by walls, it does have fencing, unlike the settlements north and south of the city which were some of the first to be walled, because it actually looked like Israel might give it up. If Maale Adumim is built up and walled it would almost finish encircling Jerusalem and stab deeply into the West Bank. The scale of some of the work proposed makes it highly implausible it would ever be given up. This project most likely what was being talked about if someone was talking about new bisection.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by Lord Zentei »

SirNitram wrote:A question to those with more knowledge: I've heard it bandied about that the new settlements are arranged to simply bisect the West Bank. Is this true?
After a quick search: it seems that the E1 area doesn't bisect the West Bank by itself, as much as it consolidates the area behind the so-called Barrier, and joins up existing settlements with Jerusalem. It completes the bisection that has been taking place for some time. Though the area south of Jericho is technically not allocated to settlements yet, there aren't any roads leading that way.

The new settlement area:
Image

An overview of the situation:
Image

It's the dark purple area to the east of Jerusalem that got expanded westwards towards East Jerusalem. In case it's too difficult to read; the light purple is "settlement municipal area" and the dark purple is "settlement area" proper. The grainy empty-looking area along the Dead Sea and the Jordan is a "closed military area". Of course, there are multiple checkpoints and many roads are no-go, so that the Palestinian areas aren't as much bisected as they are divided into multiple little enclaves.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by Lord Zentei »

The last sentence in the first paragraph should read " Though the area south of Jericho is technically not allocated to settlements yet, there aren't any roads leading that way", could a moderator please edit it? Thanks.

(I was planning on commenting on the area west of the Jordan river, but deleted it; the word "river" got left in there for some reason.)
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

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So the settlements complete the divving up of occupied territory, and fill the area between the enclaves with zealots who beleive this is their Divine Right. The inherent abrasiveness of these settlers and the local Palestinians demands additional security, so military forces will also be stationed. The number of checkpoints and other methods of restricting Palestinian travel will increase for the same reason. The Palestinians become weaker and weaker, their government effectively cannot function, so extremists will fill the void... And their inevitable violence begets more reprisals, more expansion, more restriction.

Am I right? Also, am I right in seeing this as an effective strategy?
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

And Israel never misses a chance at bad PR. So yeah, stole their land, their homes, and now they're literally stealing their money.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by eyl »

Lord Zentei wrote:
SirNitram wrote:A question to those with more knowledge: I've heard it bandied about that the new settlements are arranged to simply bisect the West Bank. Is this true?
After a quick search: it seems that the E1 area doesn't bisect the West Bank by itself, as much as it consolidates the area behind the so-called Barrier, and joins up existing settlements with Jerusalem. It completes the bisection that has been taking place for some time. Though the area south of Jericho is technically not allocated to settlements yet, there aren't any roads leading that way.
The area south of Jericho is basically a mountain range; it's largely unhibated (though there are some roads there which don't appear on the map).

Unless Israel actually blocks PAlestinian traffic in the Maaleh Edumim area - which I haven't heard anything about so far - this doesn't actually bisect the West Bank any more than a Palestinian state in the 1967 lines would bisect Israel - IIRC, the distance between E1 and the Jordan is actually twice as large as the distance between the westernmost extent of the Green Line and the Mediterranean (not to say this is a good idea, but I don't really see this as a valid objection).
The grainy empty-looking area along the Dead Sea and the Jordan is a "closed military area".
The closed military area there is such because there are still a lot of mines there which haven't been cleared. Civilians can go in (there's a tourist site there, I've visited once) but you need a military escort, presumably to keep you from wandering around).
General Schatten wrote:And Israel never misses a chance at bad PR. So yeah, stole their land, their homes, and now they're literally stealing their money.
As was pointed out in the spacebattles thread, this is more like unilaterally garnishing wages than actual theft, given that the money so far has only been frozen, and proposals t use it refer to clearing (large) Palestinian debts to Israeli utility companies.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by eyl »

Lord Zentei wrote:They're afraid of increased visibility, and more than that they're probably afraid of creeping statehood for the Palestinians without a peace settlement being reached in tandem with that. Today, observer status; tomorrow, who knows what else they'll get. And they're all to aware how isolated they are internationally, so they feel cornered.

But I get the impression that many in Israeli politics don't want statehood in conjunction with peace, but continued stasis. There really is no endgame in the strategy of the more radical groups, so the powers that be are forced to juggle the status quo as best they can.
It's also that the government sees such unilateal moves as a violation of the Oslo Accords, and since it isn't that fond of the Accords itself, as a good excuse to ditch them (though to date it actually hasn't done so and I doubt it will).
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by Lord Zentei »

The area south of Jericho is basically a mountain range; it's largely unhibated (though there are some roads there which don't appear on the map).

Unless Israel actually blocks PAlestinian traffic in the Maaleh Edumim area - which I haven't heard anything about so far - this doesn't actually bisect the West Bank any more than a Palestinian state in the 1967 lines would bisect Israel - IIRC, the distance between E1 and the Jordan is actually twice as large as the distance between the westernmost extent of the Green Line and the Mediterranean (not to say this is a good idea, but I don't really see this as a valid objection).
The distance between E1 and Jordan that you yourself assert is full of land mines, and cannot be entered without a military escort, i.e. an Israeli military escort. It does not matter why the area is closed, what matters is that Palestinians are not allowed to go there. So how does this refute the point that the Palestinian areas are bisected? Hint: Palestinians want a state. No state should need to consult the military of another state in order to move around on its territory, nor move though any of their "settlements" like E1. To compare this to the the contiguous territory of Israel in 1967 is disingenuous at best.
It's also that the government sees such unilateal moves as a violation of the Oslo Accords, and since it isn't that fond of the Accords itself, as a good excuse to ditch them (though to date it actually hasn't done so and I doubt it will).
A unilateral move which constitutes a violation, such as that represented by settlements constructed on prior occasions, such as when Biden came over for a visit. Remember that little episode?
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by eyl »

Lord Zentei wrote:The distance between E1 and Jordan that you yourself assert is full of land mines, and cannot be entered without a military escort, i.e. an Israeli military escort. It does not matter why the area is closed, what matters is that Palestinians are not allowed to go there. So how does this refute the point that the Palestinian areas are bisected? Hint: Palestinians want a state. No state should need to consult the military of another state in order to move around on its territory, nor move though any of their "settlements" like E1. To compare this to the the contiguous territory of Israel in 1967 is disingenuous at best.
There wasn't a point - it was a general comment. Nevertheless, the area which is mined is a relatively narrow strip - beyond the Jordan valley roads, and it certainly doesn't extend in the entire gap from E1 eastwards.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by Lord Zentei »

I reiterate: it does not matter why the area is closed, what mattes is that the Palestinians are not allowed to go there. The fact remains that any prospective Palestinian state is bisected. If anything, if the area that is actually mined is narrower than the closed military area overall, that is just more damning of the arrangement.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by cosmicalstorm »

I don't see any way at all that Palestinians will ever get their land back. Even if Israel is hounded by the UN and Europe, they will ally with China, Russia and the USA. Even without the US, Israel isn't going away, and have 0 intentions of giving the Palestinians anything back. Even if a nuclear war was fought, there would be nothing but glowing desert sand left. The Palestinians will be slowly driven away while Israel will catch some hassle over that, they will get away with it. Am I missing something here?
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by Ritterin Sophia »

As was pointed out in the spacebattles thread, this is more like unilaterally garnishing wages than actual theft, given that the money so far has only been frozen, and proposals t use it refer to clearing (large) Palestinian debts to Israeli utility companies.
Large "debts" that only exist because the occupation leaves them no other alternative. This would be like the US demanding Iraq pay back the money we invested in reconstructing their country after we leveled it, except worse because you never intend allow them to attain the means to be able to pay them back.
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Re: Israel claims more living space in the east

Post by eyl »

Lord Zentei wrote:I reiterate: it does not matter why the area is closed, what mattes is that the Palestinians are not allowed to go there. The fact remains that any prospective Palestinian state is bisected. If anything, if the area that is actually mined is narrower than the closed military area overall, that is just more damning of the arrangement.
What I'm saying is that AFAIK the CMZ (which I can't quite make out from your map, I'm going by what I remember) is itself narrower than you seems to assume (and specifically in the area adjacent to the Dead Sea, there are no Palestinian villages AFAIR).

On a more general note, this isn't the first timIsrael has made an announcement it will build additional housing units in settlements as a "fuck you" when the Palestinians do something the government doesn't like. Sepcifically, it's also not the first time Israel has announced it will build in E1. In practise, most of these plans are subsequently killed in committee, which makes the entire thing even stupider.
General Schatten wrote:Large "debts" that only exist because the occupation leaves them no other alternative. This would be like the US demanding Iraq pay back the money we invested in reconstructing their country after we leveled it, except worse because you never intend allow them to attain the means to be able to pay them back.
In Iraq, you trashed infrastructure which was actually existing. In this case, there was no power infrastructure in the Territories when Israel occupied them. AFAIK, up until 2010, even the Palestinians hadn't so much as proposed building their own power station in the West Bank. (In 2010, a Palestinian group proposed building a natural gas power station in the West Bank, but it's still several years from completion (if they've even started, they hadn't as of early 2011). Their proposal is still dependent on NG imports from Israel.)
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