Phasers vs. Vader

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-12 02:18am

I'm gonna settle this right now.

First, the idea that Darth Vader would allow a mere particle beam to even get CLOSE to him is ludicrous. If Obi-Wan and Quigon can deflect four dozen laser cannon blasts at a time, and if Luke can deflect similar laser beams BLINDFOLDED, then there's NO WAY that Vader couldn't whip out that big, glowing red phallic symbol and parry a phaser blast.

Second, as for wattage of Force Lightning, it's immeasurable. Force lightning isn't electricity, after all. It doesn't apply to the same logical "earth-physics". Besides, Palpy's force lightning might be at a different (greater) intensity than Vader's lightning. There's no standard. Let's leave it at this: IF we could measure the Force in terms of electrical power, and IF we had devices strong enough to take Force lightning, (and IF the Force were real to begin with

) it'd be a buttload of Watts. Enough to power Coruscant for a century. The only reason Luke didn't die from it was because Palpy was just teasing him. (Disregarding that whole part where he says, "...and now, young Skywalker, you will die." He got cut off before he could finish.)

::Runs out of breath::

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-03-12 05:51am

Queeb Salaron wrote:I'm gonna settle this right now.

First, the idea that Darth Vader would allow a mere particle beam to even get CLOSE to him is ludicrous. If Obi-Wan and Quigon can deflect four dozen laser cannon blasts at a time, and if Luke can deflect similar laser beams BLINDFOLDED, then there's NO WAY that Vader couldn't whip out that big, glowing red phallic symbol and parry a phaser blast.

Second, as for wattage of Force Lightning, it's immeasurable. Force lightning isn't electricity, after all. It doesn't apply to the same logical "earth-physics". Besides, Palpy's force lightning might be at a different (greater) intensity than Vader's lightning. There's no standard. Let's leave it at this: IF we could measure the Force in terms of electrical power, and IF we had devices strong enough to take Force lightning, (and IF the Force were real to begin with ) it'd be a buttload of Watts. Enough to power Coruscant for a century. The only reason Luke didn't die from it was because Palpy was just teasing him. (Disregarding that whole part where he says, "...and now, young Skywalker, you will die." He got cut off before he could finish.)

::Runs out of breath::

How did you come to the conclusion that it would be enough to power Coruscant for a century?

Spanky The Dolphin · Post by **Spanky The Dolphin** » 2003-03-12 06:00am

He pulled it out of his ass.

And I especially likes that he totally ignores the absorb scenerio by just blabbering that Vader would use his lightsabre. Way to dodge a subect.

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-12 10:58am

Kamikaze Sith wrote:He pulled it out of his ass.

A little thing I like to call hyperbole. Look it up.

Spanky the Dolphin wrote:And I especially likes that he totally ignores the absorb scenerio by just blabbering that Vader would use his lightsabre. Way to dodge a subect.

Come on, now. Think about it: Would you rather pull off some lame Force absorb that practically any Jedi worth talking about can pull off, or would you rather take out your saber and deflect the phaser bolt BACK at the person who shot it and get instant revenge? That's what I thought.

Carboxylus · Post by **Carboxylus** » 2003-03-12 11:22am

vader was old thats why he was defeted but he is the pimpest character ever in satr wars i dont think force lightning has a number of jouls but what ever it doesnt matter no onee wil ver know.[/img]

Next of Kin · Post by **Next of Kin** » 2003-03-12 11:26am

Carboxylus wrote:vader was old thats why he was defeted but he is the pimpest character ever in satr wars i dont think force lightning has a number of jouls but what ever it doesnt matter no onee wil ver know.[/img]

STFU!

Col. Crackpot · Post by **Col. Crackpot** » 2003-03-12 11:39am

Carboxylus wrote:vader was old thats why he was defeted but he is the pimpest character ever in satr wars i dont think force lightning has a number of jouls but what ever it doesnt matter no onee wil ver know.[/img]

*uber-POKE* Go away Luigi, you can change your name but you can't change the fact that you're a dumbass

Kamakazie Sith · Post by **Kamakazie Sith** » 2003-03-12 01:04pm

Queeb Salaron wrote:
Spanky The Dolphin wrote:He pulled it out of his ass.

A little thing I like to call hyperbole. Look it up.

Seemed as though you were stating fact. Maybe you should re-read your post.

BTW I find it amusing that you quoted me as saying something that Dolphin did and then just to show us all how smart you are you correct the spelling of my user name

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-12 01:11pm

Yeah, I was having a bit of trouble with the quote function. Hastily done. All apologies.

As for the statement of fact, it wasn't meant to be. I tend to hyperbolize a lot. (I'm not even sure if that's a word.) If I had been serious, I would have been contradicting myself, considering I previously stated that Force lightning is not measurable by electric power standards.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-12 01:14pm

Carboxylus wrote:vader was old thats why he was defeted but he is the pimpest character ever in satr wars i dont think force lightning has a number of jouls but what ever it doesnt matter no onee wil ver know.[/img]

I take it you didn't know that some of the world's best swordsmen are old?

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-12 01:20pm

I take it you didn't know that some of the world's best swordsmen are old?

Yeah, dude. Yoda-fu.

In the SW universe, though, that doesn't always stand up. After all Vader beat Obi, Maul beat Quigon (though I'm not sure of Maul's age...), and Obi beat Maul (Just going off who looks older).

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-12 01:32pm

Queeb Salaron wrote:
I take it you didn't know that some of the world's best swordsmen are old?
Yeah, dude. Yoda-fu.

In the SW universe, though, that doesn't always stand up. After all Vader beat Obi, Maul beat Quigon (though I'm not sure of Maul's age...), and Obi beat Maul (Just going off who looks older).

1. Vader didn't beat Obi-Wan. Maybe it would have happened, but the fact is that Obi-Wan stopped fighting.

2. Maul beat Qui-Gon. You can't judge it passed on just age. Maul is after all an alien.

3. Obi-Wan beats Maul. You still can't pass it on age. Obi-Wan pulled off a suprise that worked. It wasn't a straight fight.

In terms of age, you can only pass it off of human on human battles. And it still works there. Dooku beats Anakin. Dooku beats Obi-Wan. Experience counts.

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-12 02:05pm

1. Vader didn't beat Obi-Wan. Maybe it would have happened, but the fact is that Obi-Wan stopped fighting.

2. Maul beat Qui-Gon. You can't judge it passed on just age. Maul is after all an alien.

3. Obi-Wan beats Maul. You still can't pass it on age. Obi-Wan pulled off a suprise that worked. It wasn't a straight fight.

In terms of age, you can only pass it off of human on human battles. And it still works there. Dooku beats Anakin. Dooku beats Obi-Wan. Experience counts.

Three good and relevant points.

Is Dooku older than Obi-Wan, though? I know he looks older, but I can never tell the elder of two old men just by looking at them.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-12 02:08pm

Queeb Salaron wrote:
1. Vader didn't beat Obi-Wan. Maybe it would have happened, but the fact is that Obi-Wan stopped fighting.

2. Maul beat Qui-Gon. You can't judge it passed on just age. Maul is after all an alien.

3. Obi-Wan beats Maul. You still can't pass it on age. Obi-Wan pulled off a suprise that worked. It wasn't a straight fight.

In terms of age, you can only pass it off of human on human battles. And it still works there. Dooku beats Anakin. Dooku beats Obi-Wan. Experience counts.
Three good and relevant points.

Is Dooku older than Obi-Wan, though? I know he looks older, but I can never tell the elder of two old men just by looking at them.

In AOTC, Dooku is older than Obi-Wan. Unless you mean Dooku in AOTC and Obi-Wan in ANH.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-12 02:18pm

In ANH Obi-Wan in his late fifties or early sixties, figured he's 25 in TPM, about 35 in AOTC, then about 37 in Ep. III if it happens two years after AOTC like I heard, then about 20 years to ANH. Meaning 57 in ANH at the low end. In AOTC Dooku is over eighty.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-12 02:19pm

Gah, no edit, I mean Dooku is about 80, starwars.com says he's studied the force for almost 8 decades.

Isolder74 · Post by **Isolder74** » 2003-03-12 02:50pm

neoolong wrote:Gah, no edit, I mean Dooku is about 80, starwars.com says he's studied the force for almost 8 decades.

Which makes it even worse for Ani when Tyranus ownz his hide!

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-12 04:09pm

Back on topic, what I'd REALLY like to know is the wattage behind that big white ball of Force that Luke threw around in Splinter of the Mind's Eye. And is that big white ball (there was a term for it, but I'm not sure what it is anymore) any match for Force Lightning.

Kurgan · Post by **Kurgan** » 2003-03-25 12:07am

For several weeks after the incident, Luke entertained the troops with the old "Bulb in the mouth lights up" trick.

seanrobertson · Post by **seanrobertson** » 2003-03-30 03:37pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Kamakazie Sith wrote:Phasers being useless against metal........
I could be wrong, but I've never seen a reasonable display of hand phasers damaging metal. That's why all those conviently placed crates in most Trek are good cover, because they absorb the beam.

But I don't think Vaders hand would be quite thick enough to absorb the blast anyways.

It's a thick hand, though

Heh.

Seriously, we have seen phasers damage metal before...what was the damn episode?

...hmm...let me think...ah! "The Vengeance Factor." They weren't set to maximum power IIRC, but it took sustained blasts and at least two phasers shooting to make some piece of metal burn.

I know Michael talks about it in greater detail in the Canon Database. Let me check...

The script says this:

DATA: Noranium alloys. Their salvage value is low.
...
(the away team is attacked by Gatherers armed with Rigellian phaser rifles and they're pinned down, hiding behind some rocks)
RIKER: Data... noranium vaporizes at... ?
DATA: Two thousand three hundred fourteen degrees. Of course, noranium carbide alloys vaporize at a slightly higher temperature.
GEORDI: Phaser setting seven ought to do it...
SCREENPLAY: Riker, Data, Geordi, and Worf fire at the pile of noranium. The noranium quickly bellows huge clouds of smoke -- filling the area almost immediately.
RIKER: Now!
(the four officers make a break for it, using the smoke as cover)

Mike's take:

"...this initially looks like a true vapourization event (notice the cloud of vapour). However, since smoke continued to pour from the alloy pile until Brull snuffed it out with sand, it's quite obvious that it was actually burning (this is not unprecedented; some metals burn easily). Therefore, the phasers actually ignited the alloy rather than vapourizing it. It's always possible that they vapourized some of it, but we'll never know how much because the pile continued to burn afterwards."

Sadly I have no clue how powerful Palpatine's lightning strikes might be, same said for all other such Force attacks. If anything's decided upon, it's hardly a maximum for what can truly be done, of course, since Palpatine was having fun torturing ole' Farm Boy.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-30 04:07pm

It should also be pointed out, however, that I'm being very generous in allowing Data's idiotic claim that it's a metal alloy (unlike certain rabid Trekkie debaters who shall remain unnamed, I'm telling the truth when I say I try to be generous). "Noranium carbide", if we analyze the nomenclature, is almost certainly a carbide ceramic, not a metallic alloy.

Howedar · Post by **Howedar** » 2003-03-30 04:54pm

Carbon steel is simply a mixture, correct? It would be inaccurate to call such a material a carbide.

Connor MacLeod · Post by **Connor MacLeod** » 2003-03-30 10:11pm

Force lightning in the WOTC SW RPG is as damaging as a heavy blaster pistol. Heavy blaster pistols (like Han Solo's) are roughly 50% stronger than a lightsaber (In the original SWRPG from WEG, heavy blasters and lightsabers are identical in firepower, so we can say its at least comparable, if not more).

It doesnt need to be an exact comparison, but the point is, that Force Lightning appears to be as destructive, if not moreso, than a blaster bolt or lightsaber. We're eaisly talking MJ range (tens to hundreds, probably)

(Under WEG rules, the actual damage in Force Lightning, IIRC, was dependent upon the difference in the Darksider's Alter ability vs the target's strength)

Slartibartfast · Post by **Slartibartfast** » 2003-03-30 11:06pm

Darth Wong wrote:It should also be pointed out, however, that I'm being very generous in allowing Data's idiotic claim that it's a metal alloy (unlike certain rabid Trekkie debaters who shall remain unnamed, I'm telling the truth when I say I try to be generous). "Noranium carbide", if we analyze the nomenclature, is almost certainly a carbide ceramic, not a metallic alloy.

Remember that for technobabblers, whenever you mix two materials you get an alloy. Probably clay would be some earth/water "alloy".

StarDestroyer.Net BBS

Phasers vs. Vader

vader is pimp

Re: vader is pimp

Re: vader is pimp

Re: vader is pimp