World of Tanks Mark 2
Moderator: Thanas
- Imperial528
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- Location: New England
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
I love x5 and bonus credits:
Victory!
Battle: El Halluf Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:35:36 AM
Vehicle: M6
Experience received: 5,285 (x5 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 31,441
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Sniper
Victory!
Battle: El Halluf Sunday, December 23, 2012 11:35:36 AM
Vehicle: M6
Experience received: 5,285 (x5 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 31,441
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Sniper
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
It's an AMX-13 75 with even more penetration/damage and even less armour/hitpoints. I've hit serious scores with that tank simply because 95% of everything you see is higher tier than you and you get bonus XP for damaging things higher tier than you.Nephtys wrote:Well fuck. I just got 1711 NON-DOUBLED XP on my T71 Light Tank, and it's only good enough for SECOND class! People must be making a killing in this tank... I just solo'ed a pair of T34s and an IS3 with this slaughterwagon.
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Nice, a t1e6 premium light tank as the new years gift
- Imperial528
- Jedi Council Member
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- Joined: 2010-05-03 06:19pm
- Location: New England
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Amid glitchy sound, I once again love the M10:
Victory!
Battle: Fisherman's Bay Monday, December 24, 2012 8:45:52 AM
Vehicle: M10 Wolverine
Experience received: 3,355 (x5 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 22,519
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Master Gunner, Sharpshooter
Victory!
Battle: Fisherman's Bay Monday, December 24, 2012 8:45:52 AM
Vehicle: M10 Wolverine
Experience received: 3,355 (x5 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 22,519
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Master Gunner, Sharpshooter
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Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
I think I have a problem. I already have two garage slots locked up with my permanently-kept KV-1 and KV-2, and now I'm falling for the T-150 enough that I don't want to sell that one, either.
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Sell the free tank wargaming gave you?
Suffering from the diminishing marginal utility of wealth.
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Arty also need to know how to protect themselves damn it.Temjin wrote:Arty, I feel for you. Nobody likes you. They bitch at you for not supporting them when they were doing something stupid and you were busy supporting your team at a crucial point on another part of the map. They bitch at you because you can kill them from across the map. It's very hard to get your team to protect you or even for your team's lights to chase down that light tank that's gunning right for your position and lighting you up. You have paper thin armour and when an enemy closes in you have one chance to destroy an enemy tank before it kills you thanks to your really long reload.
I understand all that.
But fuck you for trying to get to get heavy tanks (top tier ones at that) to stay back at our cap to guard your ass. They have better shit to be doing, like spearheading towards the enemy cap. If the time comes when a heavy tank is required to guard your worthless asses, we're already losing. This is especially true in mid-tier battles, where's there two or three heavies per side.
In three different matches today I had that happen. Stupidest thing was that all three times the heavy tank the arty named actually did it. All three times the heavy tank named was the one on the top of the list.
Surprisingly enough we actually managed to win one of those battles, but it was a close thing.
I was in a Lee today and even though I spotted the flanking threat early enough to get in position, it doesn't help if the arty stayed in the middle of the street of hindendorf instead of MOVING away from the enemy tank. I'm not a heavy, I need some damn cover, or at least, a firing position that allows me to actually shoot the enemy instead of offering free frag/first shot.
The odd thing is, I died in that position afterwards when scouting around, as the hetzer caught me offguard and in blind panic, I attempted to flank him by rushing towards his position....
Also, I'm not sure whether the T1 that was covering me knew of the hetzer... Or that in its attempt to support me, it actually cut off my LOS to the enemy tank, where I had nicely tracked the bugger and was pounding away merrily at the TD:D
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
It should be the TD and lights that should base camp.
High tier artillery is boring, involves planning while reloading where to fire next and waiting a few seconds for the sight to snap on.
Wish Clan Wars wasn't halted, but no one wants Clan Wars to break up families during Christmas.
High tier artillery is boring, involves planning while reloading where to fire next and waiting a few seconds for the sight to snap on.
Wish Clan Wars wasn't halted, but no one wants Clan Wars to break up families during Christmas.
Suffering from the diminishing marginal utility of wealth.
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- Emperor's Hand
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Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
It seems to me that lights and mediums have two viable strategies.
One is to use their superior speed to dash to a good firing position far from the spawn point before the enemy gets there in force.
The other is to wait at the spawn and use their speed to reinforce whatever part of the map offers the best opportunity. This requires a bit more strategic insight.
Unfortunately, what mediums usually do is use their superior speed to follow the same routes the heavies do, arrive ten seconds ahead of the heavies, and then slam into the enemy's heavy armor in a short range meeting engagement where the heavy tanks and well armored TDs have all the advantages.
One is to use their superior speed to dash to a good firing position far from the spawn point before the enemy gets there in force.
The other is to wait at the spawn and use their speed to reinforce whatever part of the map offers the best opportunity. This requires a bit more strategic insight.
Unfortunately, what mediums usually do is use their superior speed to follow the same routes the heavies do, arrive ten seconds ahead of the heavies, and then slam into the enemy's heavy armor in a short range meeting engagement where the heavy tanks and well armored TDs have all the advantages.
This space dedicated to Vasily Arkhipov
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Its part of the whole... "scouting" mentality. The problem with that is that for a good many maps, rushing that far ahead is worthless as your team can't support you.
Speaking as a medium, I also tend to get bogged into target fixation, refusing to relocate and outflank the enemy/find new firing positions.......
Speaking as a medium, I also tend to get bogged into target fixation, refusing to relocate and outflank the enemy/find new firing positions.......
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Hmmm... I wonder whether the arty we left behind in the base camp was cursing and swearing at us for leaving it undefended...... But no shit. With 3 heavies and a swarm of mediums rolling up the flank, our two light tanks aren't going to stay around for the party and we did tell you to bugger out. You.... just didn't bugger out far enough....
On a more... pleasant note, I wished I saved the replay of my Marder successfully tracking 2 light tanks zipping around the hilly plains and scoring critical shots:D
Too bad that the last Pz II that I was waiting for that autocannon to stop bouncing my shots escaped death when a KV popped me:-(
On a more... pleasant note, I wished I saved the replay of my Marder successfully tracking 2 light tanks zipping around the hilly plains and scoring critical shots:D
Too bad that the last Pz II that I was waiting for that autocannon to stop bouncing my shots escaped death when a KV popped me:-(
Let him land on any Lyran world to taste firsthand the wrath of peace loving people thwarted by the myopic greed of a few miserly old farts- Katrina Steiner
- Imperial528
- Jedi Council Member
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- Joined: 2010-05-03 06:19pm
- Location: New England
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Victory!
Battle: Westfield Wednesday, December 26, 2012 5:31:09 PM
Vehicle: M41
Experience received: 1,768 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 27,456
Battle Achievements: Mastery Badge: "1st Class"
Paid for my ammo too. Made 12k after costs. Best match in this ever so far.
Battle: Westfield Wednesday, December 26, 2012 5:31:09 PM
Vehicle: M41
Experience received: 1,768 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 27,456
Battle Achievements: Mastery Badge: "1st Class"
Paid for my ammo too. Made 12k after costs. Best match in this ever so far.
- Shinn Langley Soryu
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Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Victory!
Battle: Himmelsdorf Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:12:02 PM
Vehicle: Churchill I
Experience received: 1,258 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 15,919
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Mastery Badge: "2nd Class"
Victory!
Battle: Malinovka Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:31:48 PM
Vehicle: Churchill I
Experience received: 424
Credits received: 12,664
I really like my Churchill I. Took out a KV-1S (scoring three crits in the process, too) and a Hetzer on Himmelsdorf; the Hetzer there was actually a mutual kill, with both our killing blows landing at the exact same time. On Malinovka, I simply followed the time-honored tradition of camping while allowing the faster tanks to do the scouting and spotting. I managed to take out a T-150 and yet another Hetzer from across the field and inflicted some grievous damage against an assortment of other tanks, then wound up leading the charge across the field when the opposing side was down to just a lone KV-1; if it hadn't been for an unfortunate crit to the turret traverse, I probably would have done more against that KV-1.
Battle: Himmelsdorf Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:12:02 PM
Vehicle: Churchill I
Experience received: 1,258 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 15,919
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Mastery Badge: "2nd Class"
Victory!
Battle: Malinovka Wednesday, December 26, 2012 4:31:48 PM
Vehicle: Churchill I
Experience received: 424
Credits received: 12,664
I really like my Churchill I. Took out a KV-1S (scoring three crits in the process, too) and a Hetzer on Himmelsdorf; the Hetzer there was actually a mutual kill, with both our killing blows landing at the exact same time. On Malinovka, I simply followed the time-honored tradition of camping while allowing the faster tanks to do the scouting and spotting. I managed to take out a T-150 and yet another Hetzer from across the field and inflicted some grievous damage against an assortment of other tanks, then wound up leading the charge across the field when the opposing side was down to just a lone KV-1; if it hadn't been for an unfortunate crit to the turret traverse, I probably would have done more against that KV-1.
I ship Eino Ilmari Juutilainen x Lydia V. Litvyak.
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
- Imperial528
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- Location: New England
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Victory!
Battle: Murovanka Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:07:41 PM
Vehicle: M10 Wolverine
Experience received: 2,732 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 29,356
Battle Achievements: Top Gun, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"
Woot woot.
Killed a T82, StuGIII, SU-5, AMX105AM, Ram II, M7 Medium, and damaged a T40. Also got a few base capture points. Freaking awesome match. Love this tank. It now forms my top three with the M37 and M6.
EDIT:
Victory!
Battle: Ruinberg Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:19:10 PM
Vehicle: M10 Wolverine
Experience received: 948
Credits received: 30,136
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Sharpshooter, Mastery Badge: "Ace Tanker"
Fucking YES!
Almost would've gotten a second top gun, too, but a grille took my kill, who was the last enemy. Still, awesome.
Battle: Murovanka Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:07:41 PM
Vehicle: M10 Wolverine
Experience received: 2,732 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 29,356
Battle Achievements: Top Gun, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"
Woot woot.
Killed a T82, StuGIII, SU-5, AMX105AM, Ram II, M7 Medium, and damaged a T40. Also got a few base capture points. Freaking awesome match. Love this tank. It now forms my top three with the M37 and M6.
EDIT:
Victory!
Battle: Ruinberg Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:19:10 PM
Vehicle: M10 Wolverine
Experience received: 948
Credits received: 30,136
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Sharpshooter, Mastery Badge: "Ace Tanker"
Fucking YES!
Almost would've gotten a second top gun, too, but a grille took my kill, who was the last enemy. Still, awesome.
- Imperial528
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1798
- Joined: 2010-05-03 06:19pm
- Location: New England
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Sorry for the double, but had we won this match, it would've been awesome:
Defeat
Battle: Ensk Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:45:51 PM
Vehicle: T29
Experience received: 585
Credits received: 19,615
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Sniper, Spartan
As it turns out, the Ferdinand can't harm a T29 while the T29 is facehugging it. I also survived three bounces while at 58HP point-blank from a Ferdinand and a VK4502A, which gave me the Spartan medal.
Defeat
Battle: Ensk Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:45:51 PM
Vehicle: T29
Experience received: 585
Credits received: 19,615
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Sniper, Spartan
As it turns out, the Ferdinand can't harm a T29 while the T29 is facehugging it. I also survived three bounces while at 58HP point-blank from a Ferdinand and a VK4502A, which gave me the Spartan medal.
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
The T29 should've shot your roof armor.
Suffering from the diminishing marginal utility of wealth.
- Imperial528
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1798
- Joined: 2010-05-03 06:19pm
- Location: New England
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
I was the T29, as you can see in the match summary. The Ferdinand was incapable of harming me, and I was shooting its front-top hull and damaging it rather constantly to kill it*, I later was doing the same to a second Ferdinand, however I ran out of time as our base was captured, so it escaped with its life.
*I was aiming at some sort of hatch protruding out of the hull top but below the gun, probably for the driver.
I also had this gem today:
Victory!
Battle: Malinovka Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:56:57 PM
Vehicle: T29
Experience received: 1,906 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 25,381
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall
48 hits received, 96 health left, four kills. Very good night I've had.
*I was aiming at some sort of hatch protruding out of the hull top but below the gun, probably for the driver.
I also had this gem today:
Victory!
Battle: Malinovka Wednesday, December 26, 2012 8:56:57 PM
Vehicle: T29
Experience received: 1,906 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 25,381
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall
48 hits received, 96 health left, four kills. Very good night I've had.
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Battle: Malinovka Donnerstag, 27. Dezember 2012 20:45:59
Vehicle: Churchill III
Experience received: 3.295
Credits received: 35.432
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Top Gun, Master Gunner, Mastery Badge: "Ace Tanker"
Second fight in the Churchill III and I get this gem. Part of the xp is because of an event still damn nice round.
Im looking to get a 3rd premium tank up to tier 5 while the 50% off is going on. Got the Church III and T14 allready any suggestions for a last one? I don't really want a td so those are out, I was looking at the Matilda BP but she seems to be very close to the Church and with only 55 rounds in the bank at ~26 rpm she looks understocked.
Vehicle: Churchill III
Experience received: 3.295
Credits received: 35.432
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Top Gun, Master Gunner, Mastery Badge: "Ace Tanker"
Second fight in the Churchill III and I get this gem. Part of the xp is because of an event still damn nice round.
Im looking to get a 3rd premium tank up to tier 5 while the 50% off is going on. Got the Church III and T14 allready any suggestions for a last one? I don't really want a td so those are out, I was looking at the Matilda BP but she seems to be very close to the Church and with only 55 rounds in the bank at ~26 rpm she looks understocked.
- Shinn Langley Soryu
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Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Victory!
Battle: Dragon Ridge Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:46:06 PM
Vehicle: Churchill I
Experience received: 484
Credits received: 12,144
I had my turret traverse damaged, my gunner knocked out, and a track damaged early on, so I wasn't able to contribute much until the very end, when I killed a Churchill III hiding near the enemy spawn point by driving off a cliff directly into him and firing a couple shots into him. Still managed to survive with about half my HP left.
Battle: Dragon Ridge Thursday, December 27, 2012 10:46:06 PM
Vehicle: Churchill I
Experience received: 484
Credits received: 12,144
I had my turret traverse damaged, my gunner knocked out, and a track damaged early on, so I wasn't able to contribute much until the very end, when I killed a Churchill III hiding near the enemy spawn point by driving off a cliff directly into him and firing a couple shots into him. Still managed to survive with about half my HP left.
I ship Eino Ilmari Juutilainen x Lydia V. Litvyak.
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
- Nephtys
- Sith Acolyte
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- Location: South Cali... where life is cheap!
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Massive across-board arty nerf inbound. Thank god.
In addition to the (still too generous) cap of 5 arties per team, every arty's lost hitpoints and gained increased dispersion on the move, and reduced 'TD mode' capabilities.
Still doesn't fix the problem that an end game arty can pretty much always hit a full speed moving and weaving Medium, but well... small steps.
In addition to the (still too generous) cap of 5 arties per team, every arty's lost hitpoints and gained increased dispersion on the move, and reduced 'TD mode' capabilities.
Still doesn't fix the problem that an end game arty can pretty much always hit a full speed moving and weaving Medium, but well... small steps.
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
I think they'd rather do not enough than go too far, seeing what the nature of the game is, and how it generates cashflow for the devs.
JULY 20TH 1969 - The day the entire world was looking up
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
It suddenly struck me that that tiny pea, pretty and blue, was the Earth. I put up my thumb and shut one eye, and my thumb blotted out the planet Earth. I didn't feel like a giant. I felt very, very small.
- NEIL ARMSTRONG, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 11
Signature dedicated to the greatest achievement of mankind.
MILDLY DERANGED PHYSICIST does not mind BREAKING the SOUND BARRIER, because it is INSURED. - Simon_Jester considering the problems of hypersonic flight for Team L.A.M.E.
- The Vortex Empire
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- Location: Rhode Island
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Victory!
Battle: Westfield Friday, December 28, 2012 5:49:38 PM
Vehicle: T-44
Experience received: 3,614 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 40,452
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Top Gun, Invader, Master Gunner, Sharpshooter, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"
Really, that's not ace tanker? This must be one hell of a tank fully upgraded, I've still got stock engine, stock turret and the second 85mm.
Battle: Westfield Friday, December 28, 2012 5:49:38 PM
Vehicle: T-44
Experience received: 3,614 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 40,452
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Top Gun, Invader, Master Gunner, Sharpshooter, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"
Really, that's not ace tanker? This must be one hell of a tank fully upgraded, I've still got stock engine, stock turret and the second 85mm.
- Nephtys
- Sith Acolyte
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Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
I dunno. I like Tier 8 battles, but HATE Tier 10 Battles because of the differences in arty. In Tier 8, you're still under fire from Tier 5 and Tier 6 arties, but at most 3 on the enemy team. That's managable. Also, none of those arties (Except the damn S-51) will one-shot you. Or even two-shot you.PeZook wrote:I think they'd rather do not enough than go too far, seeing what the nature of the game is, and how it generates cashflow for the devs.
At Tier 10, it's pretty damn common to see 8-10 Arties per side. And nearly every one of them, if they don't one shot you, or cripple you with a total miss, leave you in the open to be brutalized by the remainders. It's killing high tier play quite badly, especially as they've been starting to introduce lightly armored Tier 9s and Tier 10s, which are just murdered by the same guns designed to crack T95s and Mauses.
- Shinn Langley Soryu
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Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Victory!
Battle: Prokhorovka Friday, December 28, 2012 6:56:54 PM
Vehicle: PzKpfw III Ausf. A
Experience received: 624
Credits received: 11,035 (fine for causing damage to allies: 90)
Battle Achievements: Master Gunner, Sharpshooter, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"
While everyone else here is in the mid-to-high tiers, I'm still experimenting with lower-tier tanks. Had a pretty good run in my Panzer III Ausf. A for a while there, at least until I got ambushed by a T18 hiding out in some bushes near the enemy spawn point. Still took out three enemy tanks and the enemy's only SPG before going down, though.
Battle: Prokhorovka Friday, December 28, 2012 6:56:54 PM
Vehicle: PzKpfw III Ausf. A
Experience received: 624
Credits received: 11,035 (fine for causing damage to allies: 90)
Battle Achievements: Master Gunner, Sharpshooter, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"
While everyone else here is in the mid-to-high tiers, I'm still experimenting with lower-tier tanks. Had a pretty good run in my Panzer III Ausf. A for a while there, at least until I got ambushed by a T18 hiding out in some bushes near the enemy spawn point. Still took out three enemy tanks and the enemy's only SPG before going down, though.
I ship Eino Ilmari Juutilainen x Lydia V. Litvyak.
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
Phantasee: Don't be a dick.
Stofsk: What are you, his mother?
The Yosemite Bear: Obviously, which means that he's grounded, and that she needs to go back to sucking Mr. Coffee's cock.
"d-did... did this thread just turn into Thanas/PeZook slash fiction?" - Ilya Muromets[/size]
- Imperial528
- Jedi Council Member
- Posts: 1798
- Joined: 2010-05-03 06:19pm
- Location: New England
Re: World of Tanks Mark 2
Victory!
Battle: Himmelsdorf Friday, December 28, 2012 10:17:01 PM
Vehicle: T29
Experience received: 2,738 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 27,634
Battle Achievements: Sniper
Very good match, would've gotten steel wall if I hadn't died later on. Killed a KV-5 by steadily working away at its turret hatch as it failed to pen my turret or even hit my cupola. Was second in the match only to our IS-6, who won us the match with 8 kills, allowing our surviving KV-2 to capture their base as the IS-6 took out the remaining enemy tanks. It went from 2 v 5 to 2 v 1 at the end, though their M4A3E8 capping us survived.
Battle: Himmelsdorf Friday, December 28, 2012 10:17:01 PM
Vehicle: T29
Experience received: 2,738 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 27,634
Battle Achievements: Sniper
Very good match, would've gotten steel wall if I hadn't died later on. Killed a KV-5 by steadily working away at its turret hatch as it failed to pen my turret or even hit my cupola. Was second in the match only to our IS-6, who won us the match with 8 kills, allowing our surviving KV-2 to capture their base as the IS-6 took out the remaining enemy tanks. It went from 2 v 5 to 2 v 1 at the end, though their M4A3E8 capping us survived.