Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shooting

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StarSword
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Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shooting

Post by StarSword »

Came up on my Raptr feed. (If the mods decide this should be folded into the existing thread, NP.)
'Mass Effect' blamed for Connecticut school shooting; fans defend video games

Earlier today, Ryan Lanza was erroneously reported as the suspect behind the mass shooting in a Connecticut elementary school. The Facebook page of that particular person, which was quickly found by Internet detectives, mentions that he liked the “Mass Effect” video game series.

Because of this, many individuals decided to attack the comments section from the official “Mass Effect” Facebook page, blaming the games for having an influence on the suspect and tragedy. Fans of the series quickly jumped in to defend the games, saying that the suspect alone should be the one under heavy scrutiny. The attacks stopped, however, once authorities confirm that Adam Lanza, the brother of Ryan Lanza, is the real suspect.

This isn’t the first time a video game has been blamed for a mass shooting. The “Doom” video games were the subjects of criticisms during the aftermath of the Columbine High School massacre.
Somehow I knew something like this would show up, I just didn't think it would be Mass Effect. You'd've thought they would've learned their lesson after what happened to Cooper Lawrence.

The Raptr commenters mentioned that, contrary to the article saying "many individuals," it was more like five guys telling ME they sucked and hundreds of commenters promptly dogpiling them.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Alyeska »

So, apparently its impossible to read facebook pages without a facebook account. Not real interested in signing up an account just to see the "official" Mass Effect page on facebook.

And of course its sad to see people blame video games. And of all games to decide to blame, Mass Effect makes it a joke.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Aaron MkII »

Its really no different then blaming D&D, which was the favorite scapegoat of moral crusaders before games.

But Mass Effect, a game whose message is "if we work together we can beat anything"? Maybe if there was a game called "school shooter" they might have a point.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Tanasinn »

They still wouldn't have a point. There's research that consistently indicates that violent media (games and film) can, in fact, affect short-term aggressiveness and even change attitudes regarding aggressive behavior in general, but as of yet no evidence to indicate violent media compels people to commit mass violence.

Long-term effects of violent media, if I recall the studies correctly, tend to only show in children (adults already have their world-view in place) and can be eliminated entirely when there's a third party there to discuss the violence in the media with the children.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by ryacko »

This reminds me of an article I read, where a kid was called to the principal's office (and maybe punished, not sure), because he made an FPS (maybe counterstrike?) map of the school. I'm of the opinion that the principal should congratulate the kid for having marketable skills.

If guns don't kill people, silly fantasies being enacted through RPGs and video games sure as hell don't.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Stark »

Guns are protected by cultural lunacy; dem viddya gams aren't.

That said, Bioware games certainly preach pretty negative messages, but I'd imagine you'd be more likely to become a bigot than violent.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Surlethe »

Tanasinn wrote:They still wouldn't have a point. There's research that consistently indicates that violent media (games and film) can, in fact, affect short-term aggressiveness and even change attitudes regarding aggressive behavior in general, but as of yet no evidence to indicate violent media compels people to commit mass violence.

Long-term effects of violent media, if I recall the studies correctly, tend to only show in children (adults already have their world-view in place) and can be eliminated entirely when there's a third party there to discuss the violence in the media with the children.
Just to be contrary ...
They still wouldn't have a point. There's research that consistently indicates that guns can, in fact, affect short-term aggressiveness and even change attitudes regarding aggressive behavior in general, but as of yet no evidence to indicate guns compel people to commit mass violence.
In any case, just as with gun control, the argument is not that violent media compel people to commit mass violence. Rather, violent media on average desensitize people a little bit to real-life violence, and in particular finish the job for those nuts already on the margin. If we buy the same argument for gun control -- readily available guns don't compel people to commit mass violence, they just decrease the cost of mass violence for everybody, and in particular push over the edge those people already on the margin of committing mass violence -- why don't we buy it for violent media?
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Metahive »

If there were any merit to your idea, then giving a group of violent individuals a hundred handguns or a hundred copies of CoD would result in the same amount of violence.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Meest »

Made a map of my high school using Duke Nukem 3D's map maker, but maybe because it's aliens invading it was fine. Comp Science teacher loved the idea and had LAN parties in the school lab playing the map. If anything it brought people together and have a laugh at the principal being a boss.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Gil Hamilton »

I think the 80s and 90s called and they want their moral outrage back. When you have the NRA pointing the finger at violent media and conservatives tripping over each other to blame "Godlessness", if that is the argument that the pro-gun side is choosing to go with, they deserve to lose the argument.

Why not just say the following:

"We believe that citizens being allowed to arm themselves for hunting and self-defense is a fundamental and important right. We acknowledge that guns of all stripes being openly available to citizens means that, on occasion, people who really shouldn't have guns will get them and tragedies like what happened at Sandy Hook will occur. While that is tragic, we consider curtailing the freedoms of millions of responsible Americans to be worse than the rare tragedy."

That's at least honest, rather than being a hair away from saying that secularism let Satan into the gunman's heart and caused this, or blaming HALO for desensitizing people to violence.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Surlethe »

Metahive wrote:If there were any merit to your idea, then giving a group of violent individuals a hundred handguns or a hundred copies of CoD would result in the same amount of violence.
Yeah, that doesn't follow at all.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Tanasinn »

Surlethe wrote: In any case, just as with gun control, the argument is not that violent media compel people to commit mass violence. Rather, violent media on average desensitize people a little bit to real-life violence, and in particular finish the job for those nuts already on the margin. If we buy the same argument for gun control -- readily available guns don't compel people to commit mass violence, they just decrease the cost of mass violence for everybody, and in particular push over the edge those people already on the margin of committing mass violence -- why don't we buy it for violent media?
There's no compelling evidence (to my knowledge) that exists to say violent media is that job-finisher, though. It can desensitize you and leave you indifferent, it can affect your schema during formative years to make you more accepting of certain levels of violence in problem-solving - we have evidence that this is, in fact, true - but there just isn't statistical data to support that violent media will 'tip' someone over from intellectually accepting slightly more violent solutions to problems to shooting up a school full of children with weapons you stole from your mother.

One might expect to see a statistically significant increase in violent crime since the explosion of the TV, film, and video game industries were any of those things game-changers in pushing the mentally unstable over the edge, but...
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Grumman »

Gil Hamilton wrote:I think the 80s and 90s called and they want their moral outrage back. When you have the NRA pointing the finger at violent media and conservatives tripping over each other to blame "Godlessness", if that is the argument that the pro-gun side is choosing to go with, they deserve to lose the argument.
The NRA and religious nutters are making stupid arguments about what caused this shooting, but a constitutionally protected right should not be forfeit just because some of its defenders are morons.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Grumman wrote:The NRA and religious nutters are making stupid arguments about what caused this shooting, but a constitutionally protected right should not be forfeit just because some of its defenders are morons.
If someone argues poorly, they deserve to lose the argument. If gun owners don't like what the NRA and guys like Newt Gingrich are arguing, maybe they shouldn't put them in positions of such prominence in arguing for them.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Nathan F »

Gil Hamilton wrote:I think the 80s and 90s called and they want their moral outrage back. When you have the NRA pointing the finger at violent media and conservatives tripping over each other to blame "Godlessness", if that is the argument that the pro-gun side is choosing to go with, they deserve to lose the argument.

Why not just say the following:

"We believe that citizens being allowed to arm themselves for hunting and self-defense is a fundamental and important right. We acknowledge that guns of all stripes being openly available to citizens means that, on occasion, people who really shouldn't have guns will get them and tragedies like what happened at Sandy Hook will occur. While that is tragic, we consider curtailing the freedoms of millions of responsible Americans to be worse than the rare tragedy."

That's at least honest, rather than being a hair away from saying that secularism let Satan into the gunman's heart and caused this, or blaming HALO for desensitizing people to violence.
By blaming video games, they get away with making a statement that will draw little criticism from most and get "for the children!" points from a lot of people. The only ones who end up calling BS are those gamers among us who are aware enough of what's going on to be outraged.

While the argument you made is quite cogent and leans towards a philosophical bent that should be more prevalent in politics (civil rights vs. civil safety), they would be absolutely crucified if they said it.
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Re: Mass Effect blamed by moral guardians for school shootin

Post by Gil Hamilton »

Nathan F wrote:By blaming video games, they get away with making a statement that will draw little criticism from most and get "for the children!" points from a lot of people. The only ones who end up calling BS are those gamers among us who are aware enough of what's going on to be outraged.

While the argument you made is quite cogent and leans towards a philosophical bent that should be more prevalent in politics (civil rights vs. civil safety), they would be absolutely crucified if they said it.
My issue is that it's NEVER been a good argument and doesn't even track with historic trends. There is actually a whole lot less violence and crime in general in American cities than there used to be, and it's not because media were more violent in the 80s. New York City is one of the most safe cities in the country now as opposed to being one of the most dangerous, for example, and the rapid drop in murder and other crimes in the early and middle 90s is something that sociologists still haven't entirely figured out. The point is that violence in society doesn't at all seem to really track with gun laws, violent media, or any other single issue and when groups like the NRA jab out a gnarled finger at "vidja games!", it makes them sound like they don't actually have a good response, but feel pressured to cough up something, because they feel that if they don't have a response at all, they are surrendering on the issue.

What I don't understand is why bother. After all, groups like the NRA take it as an article of faith that guns will ALWAYS fall into the wrong hands and there will be violence. That's one of the reasons they encourage gun ownership for self-defense is that they are claiming, up front, that there are bad guys that prey on other people and they had better be armed themselves to level the playing field. Based on that logic, there is always going to be some gun violence and there isn't really anything you can really do about it, in practice, because you can't really tell at sight the bad guys from the good guys* until after they go nuts with a gun on someone. The problem is when you decide to argue a single issue society problem like "violent media" or "not enough Jesus in schools", you are undermining your point or at best introducing irrelevancies.

(*telling the people that shouldn't ever have guns from people responsible enough to own them is a non-trivial problem that I don't see can be answered. I'm not talking about the Loughners or Lanzas of the world or gangbangers. There are plenty of normal law abiding citizens who probably shouldn't have guns either that often seek them out. For example, in Phoenix, there was an incident where a guy with his girlfriend were pulling out of a fast food driveway and nearly ran over a mentally challenged guy walking his dog. This got into a screaming match, what with the guy nearly hitting the guy's dog, and the man in the car pulled out his gun and shot the mentally challenged guy. The man later claimed that he didn't feel his or his girlfriend's life were actually in danger but claimed that the guy he shot had a weapon of some sort (which the police never found because it didn't exist), but due to Arizona's laws, they couldn't arrest the guy because they couldn't explicitly show that he was lying. That guy should have never had a firearm in the first place due to being an irresponsible prick with poor conflict resolution skills, but unfortunately we don't have a magic brain scanner to determine that ahead of time. Thus, the argument becomes whether or not that you accept that bad things will happen like that and how much you are willing to restrict on the part of all citizens to try and stop it.)
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