Are Moderates Christians "True Christians"

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-11 08:50pm

which disturbs the religious tranquility, eh?

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-11 09:15pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:which disturbs the religious tranquility, eh?

One would imagine.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-11 09:26pm

We don't even know is Jesus really existed. There is only one historical reference to him, and that is a third hand (at least) source. Paul never met him and he was/is very influencial on the Christians. Hell, Jesus didn't even leave any writings.

I can make a pretty good case against his existence.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-11 09:35pm

Superman wrote:We don't even know is Jesus really existed. There is only one historical reference to him, and that is a third hand (at least) source. Paul never met him and he was/is very influencial on the Christians. Hell, Jesus didn't even leave any writings.

I can make a pretty good case against his existence.

His existence isn't really relevant. If he existed, then Christians are subscribing to the fanatical rantings of people who followed around a megalomaniacal parlor trickster. If he never existed, they're subscribing to the fanatical rantings of people who claim to have followed around a megalomaniacal parlor trickster who never existed.

Enforcer Talen · Post by **Enforcer Talen** » 2003-03-11 10:30pm

Durandal wrote:
Superman wrote:We don't even know is Jesus really existed. There is only one historical reference to him, and that is a third hand (at least) source. Paul never met him and he was/is very influencial on the Christians. Hell, Jesus didn't even leave any writings.

I can make a pretty good case against his existence.
His existence isn't really relevant. If he existed, then Christians are subscribing to the fanatical rantings of people who followed around a megalomaniacal parlor trickster. If he never existed, they're subscribing to the fanatical rantings of people who claim to have followed around a megalomaniacal parlor trickster who never existed.

lol, thats a sig.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-11 11:28pm

Enforcer Talen wrote:
Durandal wrote:
Superman wrote:We don't even know is Jesus really existed. There is only one historical reference to him, and that is a third hand (at least) source. Paul never met him and he was/is very influencial on the Christians. Hell, Jesus didn't even leave any writings.

I can make a pretty good case against his existence.
His existence isn't really relevant. If he existed, then Christians are subscribing to the fanatical rantings of people who followed around a megalomaniacal parlor trickster. If he never existed, they're subscribing to the fanatical rantings of people who claim to have followed around a megalomaniacal parlor trickster who never existed.
lol, thats a sig.

Glad I could be of service.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-12 05:15pm

LOL!

Well, from an historical perspective it IS relevant. He may have just been a teacher whose history the Jews decided to change. At any rate, I don't buy into his supposed existence.

Neko001 · Post by **Neko001** » 2003-03-12 06:26pm

Durandal wrote:"True Christianity" is an attempt by moderate denominations to disassociate themselves from their religion's bloody, violent past (even though they owe it's popularity to blood, violence and cultural genocide, but that's another matter). They say that people like Hitler and the Crusaders weren't "true Christians" because they killed lots of people who didn't agree with them. In reality, this behavior is encouraged in the Bible, which almost all denominations hold up as divinely inspired.

I have no problems with denominations condemning the actions of early Christians. However, I do have a problem when those denominations refuse to hold the Bible accountable for its part in those atrocities.

You can't have it both ways. Either the Bible was divinely inspired and everyone who killed in the name of Christianity was fully justified by it, or some parts of it are simply false. Take your pick.

If there's one thing I know about Christians is, you go to hell if you're a Catholic and you deserve to go to hell even more if you kill people "in the name of the bible" without trying to convert them, first.

mauldooku · Post by **mauldooku** » 2003-03-12 09:18pm

.....why would you "go to hell" if you're a Catholic?

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-12 09:39pm

.....why would you "go to hell" if you're a Catholic?

Well, if you listen to people like Jack Chick, Catholics are nothing more than Pagans who believe in Jesus but who worship Mary. Think about it: How many times do you say the Hail Mary when you pray a Rosary?

The definition of "True Christian" is a little shady. For Fun with Fundies, go to www.chick.com (it's not pr0n, I promise.) It's the single most sickening thing I have ever seen in one place at one time. Chick proposes that every Christian follow the bible to the letter because it is the OFFICIAL and ONLY Word of God. Right down the fire and brimstone bit in Revelations. He goes so far as to say that even other non-fundie Christians (Lutherans, Catholics, Adventists, Episcopals, Protestants, etc) are all damned to hell with the Pagans, Satanists, Witches and Muslims. ("Allah doesn't love you, Mohammed," one of the tract characters is quoted as saying.)

Sick. Absolutely sick. So if that's what we mean by True Christian, then there needs to be fewer True Christians.

What does this have to do with Sci-Fi again?

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-03-12 10:35pm

Hey Queeb, Jack Chick is one of SD.net's favorite chew toys. And the S.L.A.M. forum is for this kind of thread, not sci-fi.

Queeb Salaron · Post by **Queeb Salaron** » 2003-03-12 11:26pm

Frank Hipper wrote:Hey Queeb, Jack Chick is one of SD.net's favorite chew toys. And the S.L.A.M. forum is for this kind of thread, not sci-fi.

::Sighs:: Yeah, I know... but it ALMOST fit in the conversation. Couldn't pass up a good opportunity like that.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-13 12:08am

Badme wrote:.....why would you "go to hell" if you're a Catholic?

Because the Protestants think that the Catholics worship false idols (Mary, the saints, et cetera). The Catholics vehemently deny this, though. They claim to merely honor their false idols.

The Dark · Post by **The Dark** » 2003-03-13 01:50am

Durandal wrote:
Badme wrote:.....why would you "go to hell" if you're a Catholic?
Because the Protestants think that the Catholics worship false idols (Mary, the saints, et cetera). The Catholics vehemently deny this, though. They claim to merely honor their false idols.

Well, speaking as someone whose father was Catholic and who has had three Catholic roomies, the way it's been explained to me is that they ask Mary and the saints to intervene to ensure that Jesus hears their prayers. *shrug* I guess Protestants just cut out the middleman

.

Superman wrote:Hell, Jesus didn't even leave any writings.

He was probably illiterate, since he was the son of a carpenter. Most lower-class people of the first century couldn't read or write, and there's no mention of Jesus ever writing in the Bible (the one verse in John about "writing in the sand" is a poor translation...it's more along the lines of "playing with the sand" or "fiddling with the sand").

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-13 10:00am

The Dark wrote:
Durandal wrote:Because the Protestants think that the Catholics worship false idols (Mary, the saints, et cetera). The Catholics vehemently deny this, though. They claim to merely honor their false idols.
Well, speaking as someone whose father was Catholic and who has had three Catholic roomies, the way it's been explained to me is that they ask Mary and the saints to intervene to ensure that Jesus hears their prayers. *shrug* I guess Protestants just cut out the middleman .

I know how it works; I went to Catholic school for eight years. I just like poking fun at what's obviously a nonsensical and stupid system.

He was probably illiterate, since he was the son of a carpenter. Most lower-class people of the first century couldn't read or write, and there's no mention of Jesus ever writing in the Bible (the one verse in John about "writing in the sand" is a poor translation...it's more along the lines of "playing with the sand" or "fiddling with the sand").

Quick! Everyone follow Jesus' example and never teach your children to read!

Utsanomiko · Post by **Utsanomiko** » 2003-03-13 03:19pm

Durandal wrote:
Badme wrote:.....why would you "go to hell" if you're a Catholic?
Because the Protestants think that the Catholics worship false idols (Mary, the saints, et cetera). The Catholics vehemently deny this, though. They claim to merely honor their false idols.

Then again, both of thier gods are falses idols in of themselves. Nothing like an organized religion making you spend money on their Golden Calfs.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-03-13 05:49pm

Superman wrote:LOL!

Well, from an historical perspective it IS relevant. He may have just been a teacher whose history the Jews decided to change. At any rate, I don't buy into his supposed existence.

If you believe he didn't exist, then that's quite an impact on world history for a man who supposedly never was...

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-13 05:51pm

jegs2 wrote:
Superman wrote:LOL!

Well, from an historical perspective it IS relevant. He may have just been a teacher whose history the Jews decided to change. At any rate, I don't buy into his supposed existence.
If you believe he didn't exist, then that's quite an impact on world history for a man who supposedly never was...

Regardless of whether the man was ever real, it was the IDEA that had an impact on world history. The existence of an actual flesh-and-blood man to connect to that idea is almost incidental in terms of its impact on society.

Frank Hipper · Post by **Frank Hipper** » 2003-03-13 08:35pm

Darth Utsanomiko wrote:
Durandal wrote:
Badme wrote:.....why would you "go to hell" if you're a Catholic?
Because the Protestants think that the Catholics worship false idols (Mary, the saints, et cetera). The Catholics vehemently deny this, though. They claim to merely honor their false idols.
Then again, both of thier gods are falses idols in of themselves. Nothing like an organized religion making you spend money on their Golden Calfs.

"I don't care if it rains or feezes, long as I got my plastic Jesus..."

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-13 08:46pm

How fucking stupid. You know what? Fundies make an idol out of the goddam Bible. They think it is infallible and they practically worship it.

Catholics worship statues, fundies worship a book. They are ALL screwed up.

jegs2 · Post by **jegs2** » 2003-03-14 02:32am

Just as an aside, has anyone here actually read the Bible from cover to cover. If I recall correctly, Mike has, and I know I have. If you have read the Bible, please specify which version.

von Neufeld · Post by **von Neufeld** » 2003-03-14 02:52am

jegs2 wrote:Just as an aside, has anyone here actually read the Bible from cover to cover. If I recall correctly, Mike has, and I know I have. If you have read the Bible, please specify which version.

I have, but not in straight sequence. Parts of the OT was really painfully boring. The ironical thing is that I gave up on Christianity soon afterwards.
As for which version, the Swedish 1917 translation for the OT and the 1981 translation for the NT.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-14 02:56am

jegs2 wrote:Just as an aside, has anyone here actually read the Bible from cover to cover. If I recall correctly, Mike has, and I know I have. If you have read the Bible, please specify which version.

NIV. KJV is just too damned hard to understand.

neoolong · Post by **neoolong** » 2003-03-14 02:58am

I did it for school. NIV. Don't remember much of it anymore though.

I did have to read portions of the King James for differences though.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-14 03:00am

I am the son of an ex preacher. I've read it from cover to cover and it was a NKJV. Since it is a collection of many books, it is not really meant to be read that way. It is also in no particular order. The Gospels, for example, were written after Paul's letters.

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