Valve Go Into The Console Market

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Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Zaune »

Polygon.com
The "Steam Box" modular computer announced by hardware maker Xi3 and Valve at CES is codenamed "Piston" and is modeled after the PC maker's X7A line of pint-sized computers, Xi3 reps tell Polygon.

Xi3 brought an early version of Piston to CES, but was tight lipped on details about the hardware currently in development with Valve. Xi3 chief marketing officer David Politis told Polygon that Piston will offer up to 1 TB of interal storage and offer modular component updates, including the option to upgrade the PC's CPU and RAM.

Xi3 wouldn't discuss price for Piston, but commented that the Steam Box is based on its "performance level" X7A offering, which is priced at $999. Xi3 declined to comment on what would differentiate Piston hardware-wise from a standard X7A.

Xi3 also offers the entry level X5A, which is priced at $499 with a Linux operating system.

The demo unit of Piston featured an IO board boasting one ethernet port, 1/8" audio in/out, SPDIF optical audio, four USB 3.0 ports, four USB 2.0 ports (with one dedicated to keyboard input), four eSATAp ports, two Mini Display Port ports and one DisplayPort/HDMI port.

Update: Valve says that Piston is one of many prototypes they're showing off at CES.
And here's an interview with a Valve employee from the same website:
We stopped by Valve's CES booth this morning and spoke with Greg Coomer, product designer at Valve and one of the earliest champions of Steam's recently launched Big Picture mode, which reformats the PC gaming platform with a living room-appropriate 10-foot UI. With its part of the software problem solved, Valve is now meeting with hardware developers and has brought "multiple" hardware prototypes to the show, including the Xi3 system unveiled yesterday.

"We're surprised that there aren't more PC manufacturers who are addressing the combination of form factor, meaning size, and things like noise and industrial design that seems appropriate for the living room," Coomer told Polygon. "And I think that maybe there's a situation in the industry where that got tried a number of times in the past and focused on HD video or different ways to get into the living room."

But those efforts never focused on video games. For Microsoft, Xbox was its solution to get games into the living room, not Windows. Coomer said, "Windows has never been interested in running in that environment. Media Center was kind of, but it didn't do well for other reasons. So we saw this need for this software piece to get addressed, especially for gaming."

""We've thought about how existing operating systems that we're building on just aren't meant for that use case. They're not meant for TVs, they're not meant for controllers.""

That solution is Big Picture Mode, which Coomer began prototyping "a year or two" before the feature launched last month. "A few of us started putting together prototypes and specs for what that could be like. It took quite a while to build momentum," Coomer explained. "You probably know that at Valve, in order to get something off the ground, a bunch of people have to decide to work on it and to think it's important. So I and a couple other people spent a lot of our time articulating what that would be like for Steam before the project really got off the ground."

But before they were prototyping Big Picture, it was users that wanted Steam on their televisions. "Our customers have been wanting to access their games and their stuff in more places," Coomer said. "In some ways they were ahead of us in having that expectation. They were already clearly playing games in the living room, they had all this stuff that they loved about Steam and it was frustrating for them to not be able to access it in a place that seemed like a natural fit for the kind of content that they were playing."

Coomer said that Valve considered that shortcoming a "broken" part of Steam and Big Picture was the solution. While it couldn't solve the hardware issue in-house, "Valve was in a position to do something about" the software half of the problem. "We're uniquely positioned with Steam to have the backend pieces that made sense underneath that interface, so we of course were able to put together an interface. But it's everything behind that interface that's the valuable part. There are 50-some million active users of Steam and a huge catalog. A lot of people could have built the interface the way we did, but building it on Steam was the fit."

So now, with Big Picture released, Valve is tackling the next step in the process: convincing hardware manufacturers to make console-like computers that work for the living room. "We've seen a huge movement, just since the announcement and shipping of the Big Picture beta," Coomer said. "And the momentum and interest from PC manufacturers in building around it."

But even with the right hardware and Big Picture, there's still one missing ingredient: an operating system designed for the living room. "We've thought about how existing operating systems that we're building on just aren't meant for that use case. They're not meant for TVs, they're not meant for controllers. So we think about what gamers really want from this experience," Coomer said.

Some customers may want to boot directly into Steam Big Picture and never see the OS environment while others may want the OS rebuilt to be controller friendly inside the "Steam umbrella" while others still may want a full "desktop experience" outside of Steam.

And now at their booth at CES, with roughly 15 to 20 hardware partners lined up, surrounded by examples of possible "Steam Boxes" — a shorthand employed by the press that the company has never used — from the likes of Alienware and Xi3, Valve continues its pursuit of PC gaming on the television. That includes a device created and sold by Valve. Shortly after this interview, Valve CEO Gabe Newell told The Verge, "We'll come out with our own and we'll sell it to consumers by ourselves. That'll be a Linux box, [and] if you want to install Windows you can."

So Valve is trying to create a new device category with its hardware partners while hedging its bets by creating its own, providing just one more possible "Steam Box" for its customers and one more way to fix the problem its users first identified.
I'm not entirely sure what problem this is supposed to solve now that HDMI is standard on new graphics cards and new TVs, but an interesting development all the same. Not least because it suggests that the Linux version of the Steam client has one hell of a powerful emulator built into it.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Aaron MkII »

So as someone who has a 360 and a PC, what does a Steam/Valve box offer me? I assume it will give me access to Steam and a tonne of older games but beyond that, what's to tempt me?
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Vendetta »

The ones announced so far are just a small form factor living room PC running a preconfigured Linux.

I'm not sure which market the devices are aimed at. The form factors are incredibly small, which is obviously going to impact the price/power ratio of the device (an Xbox or PS3 sized device could offer the same performance at lower price because it doesn't take as much optimisation of layout, heat, airflow, etc to achieve the same performance in a smaller box), so the prices are at the high end of the console space for the entry level device, which whilst it's probably better than current consoles will be, best case, at par with the next lot, and consoles come down in price more reliably than this type of integrated PC (which tends to stay at a flat price for evolving spec, which is less attractive over time to many people than "is cheaper now").

But also the fact that it's this super small living room device with relatively limited spec means it's not necessarily attractive to the existing PC market, who probably won't consider it for their next upgrade.

On the other hand, the "steam box" is a concept rather than a specific device, so there's room still for companies to come out with an attractively priced living room device or an attractively specced and priced professionally integrated gaming PC that will attract people who are currently put off by the amount of dicking around that is percieved to be required to play PC games "properly".

On the other hand, the choice to go with linux as the base OS is a sneaky way to lock people in to Steam. Whilst the device is technically not locked, linux gaming support is terrible and I'm not convinced that it will pick up outside of what goes on Steam. Meaning that if you want games on your steambox you either have to be able to install Windows on it (possible, but no optical media in the spec, so you'd need the nous to create a USB image to install from, so possibly beyond the capability of the target audience who will be the people who want an integrated device that works without being dicked around with) or you have to live with Steam plus a few strange outliers that can be bothered with a non-Steam linux version.

All of the devices that are being shown so far at CES are circling around good concepts, the Razer Edge gaming tablet is a good spec for a tablet device which would extend the current reach of PC gaming into the portable space, but there are issues around cost (especially cost of peripherals, the tilt sensor control frame thing was quoted at $200), size and weight (it's thick and heavy for a 10.1" tablet), and battery life. Whereas the nVidia "project shield" handheld looks like it has the form factor sorted out (about the size and layout of a 360 controller with a 5" screen on top it's large for a handheld, but it has proper analog sticks and people seem to be coping with the Wii U tablet controller, and the vertical layout is just nicer for handheld gaming) but it's Android based, and most Android games are design limited by the fact that they have to be played without any real input, just a touchscreen. The device itself is all very well, but if all the games suck because they're for mobile phones, why buy one?

Now, Project Shield can also stream over the home network, acting for a PC like the Wii U tablet does in screen offload mode, but without the justification that it's freeing up the living room TV for other use (as the PC it is streaming from is still doing the computational work it can't really be used for anything else, and it's home network only so if you're at home with the PC why use a handheld not the actual PC?).


It's all interesting, but it's all almost there. A little more development so Project Shield is able to play real games on its own not Android games designed for touchscreens and that would be a winner, and a little more thought about who the steam box is actually for and coherently pitching the design at one of the potential markets (console users looking for a new device after a long generational gap who might be attracted by a large existing library or PC gamers and potential PC gamers who are looking for an integrated gaming box) would work.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Zaune »

Vendetta wrote:On the other hand, the choice to go with linux as the base OS is a sneaky way to lock people in to Steam. Whilst the device is technically not locked, linux gaming support is terrible and I'm not convinced that it will pick up outside of what goes on Steam. Meaning that if you want games on your steambox you either have to be able to install Windows on it (possible, but no optical media in the spec, so you'd need the nous to create a USB image to install from, so possibly beyond the capability of the target audience who will be the people who want an integrated device that works without being dicked around with) or you have to live with Steam plus a few strange outliers that can be bothered with a non-Steam linux version.
I dunno, actually. Valve are probably the biggest and certainly the most well-known name in the online distribution business; if they insist that every new game added to their catalogue has to run natively on every OS for which a Steam client exists, they have enough clout to get their way.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Vendetta »

Apart from the question of why would they do that, because they want you locked in to Steam (protip: Gabe Newell's hissy fit about Windows 8 and sudden love of Linux is because the Windows 8 store is a potential competitor), it's nothing to do with whether the games will run outside of the Steam DRM system and everything to do with whether publishers will bother to sell a version seperate from Steam for Linux because their only sales to Linux users are going to come from Steambox owners who have got Steam so why bother?
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Zaune »

As far as I know, and for the sake of full disclosure I should point out that I don't use it myself, the Steam client doesn't act as an emulator; developers still have to actually port the game to OSX in order to have it available to play on a Mac, for example.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Vendetta »

Yeah, the only thing Steam adds to the game is DRM, otherwise it's running natively on whatever platform.

What I'm saying is that it's unlikely that publishers will bother selling Linux versions outside of the Steam ecosystem because there's no point when Steam does what they actually want, which is impose restrictive account locked DRM (that nerds all love, for some reason) and will have the biggest reach among Linux gamers because they all have it on their steamboxes, and the ones that don't have steamboxes can just install Steam anyway.

And what that means is more people locked into the Steam ecosystem, which is what Valve want.

Hell, when Half Life 3 finally shambles into existence Valve could literally pay people to play it and still make a profit on the deal because of how many people it would bring in to the steam ecosystem where they can buy games in sales they'll never even download, let alone play. (After all, that's what they use TF2 for, F2P bait to bring people to Steam).
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by weemadando »

We "love" Steam's DRM because a) 99.9% of the time it actually functions correctly and you can play your game without issue, b) it offers good support like background updating of all your titles and in games that use it, integrated matchmaking, friendlists etc and c) it has a large catalogue which is frequently cheap as balls.

Yeah, the Steam ecosystem is corporate whoredom at it's best, but they've successfully merged DRM and the marketplace on an otherwise "open" platform. Which is kinda like what everyone else has been trying and failing to do, because the other platforms lack in one of those categories, they're too restrictive/unreliable, have crappy backends that don't function as they're meant too and leave you waiting hours to play a game you want because it's unpatched and you can't play an unpatched game on their service or they are a single publisher catalogue and/or fucking expensive.

Steam is the best option for PC because it's streamlined a lot of the bullshit out of PC gaming - even to the point where it handles video drivers for you now too. But if someone else can make a better unifying gaming client for the platform I'm all for that.

And of course people don't mind being "locked in" to the Steam ecosystem now that it actually works properly (unlike at HL2's launch). Being a spoiled first worlder is all about finding ways to trade time/money/freedom for convenience.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by bilateralrope »

Vendetta wrote:On the other hand, the choice to go with linux as the base OS is a sneaky way to lock people in to Steam. Whilst the device is technically not locked, linux gaming support is terrible and I'm not convinced that it will pick up outside of what goes on Steam.
Isn't Valve's goal to get every title in the Steam catalog running on Linux ?
This includes older titles where whoever owns the copyright has no interest in porting the game. Meaning the only option is to invest in improving Wine (or an equivalent) until it is capable of running the Windows version of all the games on Linux. Which means it's probably going to run a lot of games that aren't in Steam, unless it gets locked down to prevent that. Sure, the version of Wine built into the Steam client will be locked down. But I find it hard to believe that part of Valve's investment won't be improving the non-Steam versions of Wine.

Which means that if Valve succeeds in their goal, the only Windows games that won't run under Linux are ones that have a compatibility problem that none of the Steam games had.

If this makes Linux popular enough among PC gamers, then developers will be making more Linux ports. Or at least making sure the Windows version works through Wine.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by xthetenth »

Steam never really had to compete with DRM free so its DRM being unobtrusive is a positive. It was competing with "where did I leave the CD this time?" which is terrible because over time there's a pretty good chance steam will outlast being able to find your damn disks. I miss Impulse being worth a damn though.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

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weemadando wrote: And of course people don't mind being "locked in" to the Steam ecosystem now that it actually works properly (unlike at HL2's launch). Being a spoiled first worlder is all about finding ways to trade time/money/freedom for convenience.
Except when it's someone other than Valve doing it.

Then people have conniptions.

Also, I can't see Valve investing in platforms like Wine because they want you locked in to Steam. Why invest in something that allows you to run your existing software without their platform?

Valve do not have your best interests at heart people. They don't give a sloppy shit about your ability to play games on an open platform, no matter what the piemuncher in chief might say about Windows, they want your eyeballs on their Steam adverts.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by bilateralrope »

Vendetta wrote:Also, I can't see Valve investing in platforms like Wine because they want you locked in to Steam. Why invest in something that allows you to run your existing software without their platform?
Because it's much cheaper to use Wine as a starting point than it is for Valve to start from scratch. Since Wine is under the GPL, if Valve want to make use of it, they have to share their code.

Locking down a console only makes sense if you're selling the hardware at a loss. If you profit off the hardware, why lock it down ?

Even if you are selling the hardware at a loss, the goodwill from letting people fiddle with it might be worth more than the losses from people who don't buy games for it.
Valve do not have your best interests at heart people. They don't give a sloppy shit about your ability to play games on an open platform, no matter what the piemuncher in chief might say about Windows, they want your eyeballs on their Steam adverts.
Oh, I'm under no illusion that Valve is doing this for any reason but the money. For Steam to go on the Metro interface, that means obeying all the rules Microsoft have set for all Metro apps. Which includes giving Microsoft a cut of all revenue that Metro apps generate. Linux is just an alternative that doesn't add another party wanting a large chunk of money, which has a side benefit of being something lots of vocal people want.

Still, their selfish actions can have beneficial side effects to everyone else.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

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Vendetta wrote:
Valve do not have your best interests at heart people. They don't give a sloppy shit about your ability to play games on an open platform, no matter what the piemuncher in chief might say about Windows, they want your eyeballs on their Steam adverts.
Posting on virtually any video-game related forum leads one to realize how tight Valve's judo grip on consumer consciousness is. The worst part is when you come across people who believe that since they had fun playing Portal, Valve is justified to conduct dishonest, thuggish, and monopolistic business practices. When someone else does it then it's bad for the industry.

I'm also still lol'ing at people who take shit from Valve because they think PC gaming is doomed without them.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

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Here's the thing Hawkeye, I'm one of those who does subscribe to the fact that the PC Gaming market without Steam looks pretty lackluster, not doomed but much worse off than it would be otherwise.

That's because Impluse, GameFly, Gameshadow, Origin and Uplay and all the rest to a great extent take the idea of "Lets copy what Valve has already done and do it worse" and think that's a viable business model. The only stand out digital game platform out there aside from Steam that combines ease of use with reliability is Good Old Games with it's DRM free download wherever model is the nicest in the industry (I'll toss that out as a challenge if any system is better than GoG's please speak up now)

The last five years of record in the digital games distribution business have been marked by a large line of either "Generic Service introduces feature A which mostly does not work" followed by "Steam introduces feature A and it works great" or the reverse where Valve introduces a new feature and it works great and Origin comes along and tries to do the same thing and fails utterly.

The best marketplace out there aside from Steam and GoG is ironically the Xbox live marketplace but you don't see the fire sales as often as you do Steam which results in the kind of game hording that can result in nice steady long term profits in six months as sale on a six month old triple A game can result in anywhere from a 30% to a 250% jump in the total number of that game sold ever, meanwhile said game is selling nothing in the brick and mortars as its still sitting at 60$ on a Best Buy shelf and it got kicked from Game stop shelves after month five.

Which again bring back to the fact that Steam is competing with about fourteen other services who business plan seems to be and I can't stress this enough "Copy Steam and do it worse" which is why I say Steam plays a vital role in the PC gaming market. Steam's not made gaming perfect and they are a business not a non-profit aid group... but you can't deny that when you buy a game a Steam it's easy. Never will you need to go looking for patches or worrying about keeping things up to date. Not say it's perfect as PC gaming is still imperfect and they are happy to sell games that mostly don't work.

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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by weemadando »

Vendetta wrote:
weemadando wrote: And of course people don't mind being "locked in" to the Steam ecosystem now that it actually works properly (unlike at HL2's launch). Being a spoiled first worlder is all about finding ways to trade time/money/freedom for convenience.
Except when it's someone other than Valve doing it.

Then people have conniptions.
To be fair, GFWL was and remains a total piece of shit that seemingly requires a different install of the client for each game, which will corrupt all other versions of it, it's fucking rotten, terrible and unusable far too regularly. Which is a shame, because if they'd just fucking given me a XBL experience I'd have been sold. Origin and uPlay are single publisher stores with their own catalogue of technical issues (especially uPlay) and regional pricing bullshit. Impulse was quite good, but it now region locked to hell and back by GameStop.

And yes, Steam has regional pricing, but at least Valve doesn't and many publishers still don't support it.

Steam works and I can still get around regional pricing with third party stores like GetGames. Just the "works" part is more than nearly every other store/client can say for itself.

I got pissed with uPlay when it suddenly decided I didn't own Far Cry 3 anymore and that my CD key was registered to a different account.
I got pissed with GFWL when my purchases wouldn't appear or work, or when I had to uninstall it, reinstall it, uninstall the whole game, reinstall the whole game but not GFWL and fuck knows what else just to get access to a game that uses it.
I got pissed with Origin when EA started pricing things at the usual "AUD=2xUSD" price and then had a client that wasn't exactly reliable.
I got unimaginably pissed at Steam early on too, because it was a halting piece of shit that failed more often than it worked.

But hey, looks like people are allowed to change opinions based on what changes in the marketplace.
Also, I can't see Valve investing in platforms like Wine because they want you locked in to Steam. Why invest in something that allows you to run your existing software without their platform?

Valve do not have your best interests at heart people. They don't give a sloppy shit about your ability to play games on an open platform, no matter what the piemuncher in chief might say about Windows, they want your eyeballs on their Steam adverts.
They mightn't be a public company with shareholders baying for profit, but of course they still love money - and the Steam market rakes it in for them. I imagine it's a unrepresentative microcosm, but the Linux spend on Humble Bundles etc is always higher per user than Mac or PC and the numbers have been steadily increasing. I don't think I'll be jumping on the bandwagon anytime, but if they can shit out a 200 Steambox that has a Linux back end and a half decent catalogue then they might be able to build some momentum and in a couple of years have people looking at Linux as a genuine option for gaming.

More so however, I have to wonder if they chose Linux not just because they can get the license for free, but because they expected MS would be unwilling to license Windows to a possible competitor in the console stakes?
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

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CaptHawkeye wrote:Posting on virtually any video-game related forum leads one to realize how tight Valve's judo grip on consumer consciousness is. The worst part is when you come across people who believe that since they had fun playing Portal, Valve is justified to conduct dishonest, thuggish, and monopolistic business practices. When someone else does it then it's bad for the industry.
Could you please elaborate on Valves "dishonest, thuggish, and monopolistic business practices" ?

The worst I've seen is regional price gouging and region locks, both of which appear to be decisions made by the publishers of the games in question, not Valve. Except when we are talking about Valve games being sold in brick and mortar stores, I remember that buying Portal 2 from Steam on release was about half the price that I would have paid for a boxed copy.

As for other digital distribution platforms, the only one I've complained about was Origin. I had two specific complaints, both of which are now resolved.
weemadando wrote:More so however, I have to wonder if they chose Linux not just because they can get the license for free, but because they expected MS would be unwilling to license Windows to a possible competitor in the console stakes?
That probably has something to do with it. Does Microsoft license Windows out to anyone ?
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by SilverWingedSeraph »

bilateralrope wrote:The worst I've seen is regional price gouging and region locks, both of which appear to be decisions made by the publishers of the games in question, not Valve. Except when we are talking about Valve games being sold in brick and mortar stores, I remember that buying Portal 2 from Steam on release was about half the price that I would have paid for a boxed copy.
They did also change their Terms of Service sometime last year to force users to sign away their right to class-action lawsuits, which is, imo, pretty damn thuggish.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

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Which was a direct response to the hordes of butthurt nerds launching class action lawsuits over everything from legit grievances like the Sony PSN issues to the goddamn Mass Effect ending.

You'll find that the overwhelming majority of ToS have that in there now. A ToS is all about covering your arse in every possible way, so I'd be surprised if it didn't feature that.

And there's a reason why many courts have also ruled ToS not to be a binding agreement, because there's no capacity for the layperson to read and understand the entire agreement.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by SilverWingedSeraph »

"Everyone's doing it" does not make it more ethical. And as far as I know a class-action lawsuit never was filed with regards to the ME3 ending, just a lot of butthurt fattynerds talked about doing it. Based on everything I've read, Terms of Service are considered legally binding agreements, and the fact that all you need to do is click "I Agree" and that there's no capacity to read and understand the entire agreement is no different from someone signing a contract without bothering to read and understand it, but that varies from region to region, with some courts saying "Yes it is binding" and others saying "Nahh, it really isn't."

Seriously, I'm pretty fond of Steam, but stripping your users of the right to engage in class-action lawsuits is a scummy move. Fortunately, I'm pretty sure it's not legal in Australia, and when the change was added, Steam basically told me that it didn't actually have any impact on me, so yay, I guess? Still sucks for American users who have legitimate grievances and wish to file a class-action lawsuit. I doubt the Arbitration process is entirely fair.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

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bilateralrope wrote:
Could you please elaborate on Valves "dishonest, thuggish, and monopolistic business practices" ?
Valve buys up smaller studios, and takes or either gets all the credit for their work. This is pretty commonly accepted practice for publishers in the industry, but Valve is often viewed as an exception to those practices when it has been at best, on par with the rest of the industry's publishers in business morality. At worst, they're fully aware of the cult of personality surrounding their name and perpetuate it by doing the above.

This wouldn't be such a problem to me if Steam didn't hold the lion's share of the DD market. It does though, and even if Valve hasn't pushed their luck too much yet they're ideally placed too. You still run across idiots on various forums everyday who think the very existence of services like Origin and GoG is some kind of insult. Ironically these are often the same people who complain that the market for PC gaming is now too small.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Vendetta »

The criteria for getting games on Steam is also frequently obtuse and frustrating for smaller developers. There are plenty of games that go on services like GoG simply because Steam have said no to selling them without giving any real reason.

Whereas War Z was on there pretty much automatically because Hammerpoint have sold through Steam before and that gets you preferential treatment.


Greenlight doesn't really address this either, because it's essentially "maybe you will be able to sell your product on Steam, if the forums say so", except you have to pay to be even able to ask the forums. (And also it's a bizarre system that includes concepts it shouldn't, why, for instance, would you include downvotes, a button which says "I don't want to buy your product and I want to actively sabotage your ability to sell it to others by making it less likely that you will get a distribution agreement").
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by SilverWingedSeraph »

Vendetta wrote:(And also it's a bizarre system that includes concepts it shouldn't, why, for instance, would you include downvotes, a button which says "I don't want to buy your product and I want to actively sabotage your ability to sell it to others by making it less likely that you will get a distribution agreement").
While I agree with other things, this, afaik, isn't true. The "no thanks/not interested" button in Greenlight takes no votes away from the game submission and does not otherwise hurt its chances of being Greenlit.
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Vendetta »

SilverWingedSeraph wrote:
Vendetta wrote:(And also it's a bizarre system that includes concepts it shouldn't, why, for instance, would you include downvotes, a button which says "I don't want to buy your product and I want to actively sabotage your ability to sell it to others by making it less likely that you will get a distribution agreement").
While I agree with other things, this, afaik, isn't true. The "no thanks/not interested" button in Greenlight takes no votes away from the game submission and does not otherwise hurt its chances of being Greenlit.
In which case it basically does nothing at all, it's not useful feedback to developers, any more than a three year old repeatedly saying "no" because they can't articulate what they actually dislike is useful information.

So there's still no reason for it to exist, a button to vote for "I want this" is useful and relevant to the ostensible point of Greenlight, but a button which just says "I don't want this" is of value to no-one because it doesn't include the critical information, which is "I would want this if..."
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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Mr Bean »

So what's your feedback mechanize for a game like The War Z or the Sword of the Stars was it that was utterly unplayable. What's the feedback mechanize for smaller games that are utter shit?

And again I don't mean games that are not fun or copies or have a stupid premise but are literally unplayable.

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Re: Valve Go Into The Console Market

Post by Arthur_Tuxedo »

CaptHawkeye wrote:
Valve buys up smaller studios, and takes or either gets all the credit for their work. This is pretty commonly accepted practice for publishers in the industry, but Valve is often viewed as an exception to those practices when it has been at best, on par with the rest of the industry's publishers in business morality. At worst, they're fully aware of the cult of personality surrounding their name and perpetuate it by doing the above.

This wouldn't be such a problem to me if Steam didn't hold the lion's share of the DD market. It does though, and even if Valve hasn't pushed their luck too much yet they're ideally placed too. You still run across idiots on various forums everyday who think the very existence of services like Origin and GoG is some kind of insult. Ironically these are often the same people who complain that the market for PC gaming is now too small.
I don't see a problem with most of the DD market being represented by one platform, especially one that's as accessible and functional as Steam. Why would a person want to launch different programs to access different parts of their game library?
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