Moderators: Alyrium Denryle, Edi, K. A. Pital
Do you feel like a big tough man, making hard but necessary decisions? How many of them should die, do you think?Let them die and force a regime change or a reduction in population, give them free food and enable Mugabe and his successor to keep on doing the same shit for decades to come.
Why not? Seriously, if we could do it in a way that wouldn't be an absolute disaster, why not?Dominarch's Hope wrote:We have no moral obligation to help and feed entire nations which have so thoroughly self-destructed.
The worst thing about the board's resident armchair Machiavellis is that they think ends justifying the means is applicable to every situation. Even if they have no clear idea of what the ends are or who they would benefit.Stark wrote:Do you feel like a big tough man, making hard but necessary decisions? How many of them should die, do you think?Let them die and force a regime change or a reduction in population, give them free food and enable Mugabe and his successor to keep on doing the same shit for decades to come.
Just as all Americans deserve to suffer for all the decisions of their government. All the wars or sanctions or such actions. Clearly any acknowledgement of a government's legitimacy means a complete acceptance of ALL their policies. They can clearly just turn around and destroy said government when any of them disagree with anything it does at any time so they must want the government to continue down that path.Stark wrote:It's okay to talk about things without huge strawmen, dude. Are you saying you're ok with letting the average people of Zimbabwe suffer because the government you feel they supported implemented extraordinarily unsuccessful policies?
When you say
Do you feel like a big tough man, making hard but necessary decisions? How many of them should die, do you think?Let them die and force a regime change or a reduction in population, give them free food and enable Mugabe and his successor to keep on doing the same shit for decades to come.
I think he's a despicable fucking coward, because there's no way the little shit would propose for his own country what he proposes for other people. But apparently, in Dominarch-world the adjective "other" nullifies the noun "people".Stark wrote:Do you feel like a big tough man, making hard but necessary decisions? How many of them should die, do you think?
Deserve has nothing to do with it. Arguably, everybody deserves a shot at a decent life.Scrib wrote:Just as all Americans deserve to suffer for all the decisions of their government. All the wars or sanctions or such actions. Clearly any acknowledgement of a government's legitimacy means a complete acceptance of ALL their policies. They can clearly just turn around and destroy said government when any of them disagree with anything it does at any time so they must want the government to continue down that path.Stark wrote:It's okay to talk about things without huge strawmen, dude. Are you saying you're ok with letting the average people of Zimbabwe suffer because the government you feel they supported implemented extraordinarily unsuccessful policies?
When you say
Do you feel like a big tough man, making hard but necessary decisions? How many of them should die, do you think?Let them die and force a regime change or a reduction in population, give them free food and enable Mugabe and his successor to keep on doing the same shit for decades to come.
If you're a child or didn't vote or vote for the other guy -if you even got to-? Well, them's the brakes kid.
Please provide evidence for rampant anti-americanism around the world directed at americans in general and not their government.Dominarch's Hope wrote:Not everybody is going to get it. And last I checked, the anti-americanism rampa.t around the world isnt very specific, thats not right either.
http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.htmlQuestor wrote:Please provide evidence for rampant anti-americanism around the world directed at americans in general and not their government.Dominarch's Hope wrote:Not everybody is going to get it. And last I checked, the anti-americanism rampa.t around the world isnt very specific, thats not right either.
Get the fuck out of here Stark. Next you'll be telling me that not all Americans deserve to die in gun violence or lose their life savings after the banks collapsed due to bad decisions. Clearly their attempts to fix these things failed because of a lack of will and not any actual institutional resistance. Fuck them! They were stupid, they deserve to be abandoned to their fate!Stark wrote:It's sad because all kinds of movements fail for similar reasons all the time: inexperience, ineptitude, graft, favouritism, embezzlement, etc. it's not often someone feels okay writing off a whole population to 'death' or 'population reduction' because someone notionally their leader is an imbecile.
Gotta let em die for reasons probably beyond their control, or BLACK AFRICAN WELFARE.
Were we talking in pragmatic terms or in moral ones? Because it seemed to me that at multiple times you insinuated that the entire populace was responsible for this problem and so they should all be made examples of so the survivors should know to never be this stupid and allow the government to act in such a manner again...somehow.Deserve has nothing to do with it. Arguably, everybody deserves a shot at a decent life.
Not sure what this has to do with anything. Even so, I disagree. I don't think that the majority of people hate Americans because they're Americans I think they do so because of your various foreign policies.the anti-americanism rampa.t around the world isnt very specific, thats not right either.
I honestly don't care, I wasn't challenging you from that particular level.Now. Do you really think the West will do jackshit unless they can gain something from it at little risk?
All of which can be laid at the feet of the American government no?Dominarch's Hope wrote:http://www.vexen.co.uk/USA/hateamerica.htmlQuestor wrote:Please provide evidence for rampant anti-americanism around the world directed at americans in general and not their government.Dominarch's Hope wrote:Not everybody is going to get it. And last I checked, the anti-americanism rampa.t around the world isnt very specific, thats not right either.
Granted, most of it isnt the "Lynch all Americans" type, but it basically is everywhere for whatever reasons.
From the stupid wars to trolling the world economy to infeoririty complexes, its pretty prevalent.
I mean really, this something I can just plug into google/youtube and just start spamming links into.
When people talk about Iran and their goals do you think that they mean the Iranian people in their millions in general? Here's a shock: when people talk about America, they aren't talking about a melting pot of a few hundred million people they're talking about the government it elects, the government that makes the decisions that affects their homes. That's their first and foremost concern. The people are then hated because they supported this government. Hating Americans for being American isn't the order of the day as far as I can see, most people don't hate you for your freedom dude.Dominarch's Hope wrote:Can be and should be. Doesnt mean they always are. Like ever.
He can't prove that there's hatred for the American people independent of their government's decisions because it's ludicrously broad claim.Questor wrote:You know why he won't prove there's anti-Americanism? It's because he can't. I bet he's never left the US, far less been somewhere that isn't a tourist destination.
Yeah, but it's also ludicrous on the face, at least everywhere I've been. My accent's pretty recognizable, at least to english speakers, and I've never once encountered anyone who changed their behavior after learning I was american. And I have been to places where the US government's not popular.Scrib wrote:He can't prove that there's hatred for the American people independent of their government's decisions because it's ludicrously broad claim.Questor wrote:You know why he won't prove there's anti-Americanism? It's because he can't. I bet he's never left the US, far less been somewhere that isn't a tourist destination.
Of course it is. It's a convenient way to make oneself the persecuted in this situation, the one hated for inherent traits that you not only can't change but cherish. Granted sometimes of the time this is the case, America's type of system allows for caricatures of the Prophet and the like that will no doubt inflame Muslims but there's something pathetic about the greatest power on Earth resorting to such tactics.xthetenth wrote:The generic bland assumed animosity towards America and Americans that a lot of folks have in the US feels to me like an attempt to poison the well so they don't have to listen to criticism and run the risk of realizing that some people are right and that America as a country is doing some scurvy things. At least that's how it gets used a lot of the time in my experience. Anecdotes, data and all that, but damn does feeling persecuted seem to make things so much clearer than they actually are.
Dunno. Does Zimbabwe have to spend half its budget in its military forces because they have officially been at war for six decades? If NK actually axed its military spending then they could afford to feed the populace, but they don't do that because... paranoia or justified fear?Dummynarch's Hope wrote:No, it doesnt nullify the people part. It never does.
Do you want a North Korea long term type situation to develop? Think about it.
No, not the general populace, but the people who played these power games AND did not play it well enough to realise that they would create these problem.The government of the country is corrupt, so fuck everyone living there is your reasoning?
I actually think the approach taken to North Korea provides a good model here. Regardless of how much pretty much everyone dislikes the NK regime, when there was famine the world provided aid. It stopped only after it became clear that pretty much none of it was reaching the intended recipients and was instead being used to prop up the army. It could very well be that Zimbabwe's government wouldn't distribute food aid to its intended recipients, either intentionally or because of dysfunction, but wouldn't it be better to try rather than just assuming it won't work?Dominarch's Hope wrote:Do you want a North Korea long term type situation to develop? Think about it.
Either feed them all straight up, or attempt to, and wait and see if Mugabe distributes it decently, or wait until he is dead and approach the new regime.
