Fired Cop On a Murderous Rampage in SoCal

[Zaune]

Remind me. Does California still have the death penalty? Not that life in jail as an ex-cop is really much of a better option, or indeed carry a much reduced probability of death...
Yeah, I'd say the chances of persuading him to be taken alive are pretty poor, even if the officers who finally corner the nutjob bother to try.

[Dominarch's Hope]

No, they dont. Its why Manson is still alive IIRC.

[Arthur_Tuxedo]

No, they dont. Its why Manson is still alive IIRC.

CA still has the death penalty, however it was suspended in the 70's, which is why Manson's sentence was commuted to life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_pu ... California

[Broomstick]

Given the well-known corrupt shittiness of the LAPD, anyone else think that something like this, blue on blue killings, was just a matter of time?

Right, because there have never been blue-on-blue killings before....

I do and have. I always thought it was inevitable that a police officer would snap at the conditions and culture of the LAPD or maybe Chicago PD.

Or New York or Miami or Flint, Michigan, or any number of other places because, ya know, workplace bullying, racism, sexism, corruption, and so forth isn't limited to LA.

Usually when cops go bad, though, they target civilians, particularly those with a legal record, or who are minorities because, let's face it, they're easier targets than fellow cops. Also, civilians attacking cops carries stiffer penalties than other assaults, making them less likely to try to fight back physically, and proving self-defense even against a bad cop is usually an uphill battle. What's unusual is that this guy is targeting other police officers. Oh, and their civilian families.

Two things. I thought it would be an in-station massacre, and that the assailant would be Caucasian. Like a Post Office shooting. Because media stereotypes. No offense meant.

So.... you admit to using media stereotypes, but don't understand why that's offensive?

I would have thought it would be a minority cop because it's still largely a white man's world, but whatever.

This is a fucking tragedy. And unsuprisingly, but still very dissapointingly, the LAPD is gunning down innocent people. They keep it up at this rate, and theyll be responsible for more bystander/non LEO casualties than Mr. Dorner.

Mr. Dorner is still well ahead of the cops.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Given the well-known corrupt shittiness of the LAPD, anyone else think that something like this, blue on blue killings, was just a matter of time?


I do and have. I always thought it was inevitable that a police officer would snap at the conditions and culture of the LAPD or maybe Chicago PD.

Two things. I thought it would be an in-station massacre, and that the assailant would be Caucasian. Like a Post Office shooting. Because media stereotypes. No offense meant.

This is a fucking tragedy. And unsuprisingly, but still very dissapointingly, the LAPD is gunning down innocent people. They keep it up at this rate, and theyll be responsible for more bystander/non LEO casaulties than Mr. Dorner.


EDIT:Changed killings to casualties.


Which is is the main reason I hope this gets resolved quickly. To minimize the collateral that LAPD is responsible for. Am I alone in this?

It makes sense given the poor workplace conditions some agencies have. However, is Dorner that guy? I do not think so. What set this off is a complaint he filed against his supervisor which he was later filed for because it was determined to be false. He appealed it and the appeals court sustained that decision. According to an article it was concluded he was lying because three independent witnesses testified to this.

[Dominarch's Hope]

I was specific in it happening in LA. I didnt know it had happened in LA before, not like this.

And no, in terms of casualties, that is, severely injured/killed, Dorner has what, 4 that werent LEO/Part of the system?

[Agent Fisher]

Dorner has 2 so far not officially part of the LAPD or other agencies. Though the first woman he killed was the daughter of a LAPD captain. So far, one dead Riverside PD, one wounded Riverside PD, and I believe one wounded LAPD officer when he exchanged gunfire with them near a convenience store.

[Broomstick]

Wasn't the captain's daughter's finance also killed along with her?

[Dominarch's Hope]

I think you meant Fiance`. And I think so.

[Broomstick]

Damn auto-correcting spellcheck....

Anyone, I don't get your obsessions with how many LEO/non-LEO victims there are here. Everybody shot feels pain and bleeds red. Everyone dead is dead and not more or less dead depending on who they work for.

Looks like he might be hiding out in the San Bernadino mountains now. Or else he burned his truck there and took off elsewhere, hoping to mislead the authorities.

[Zwinmar]

Guy needs to be stopped. Then the FBI needs to do a full investigation to find out if his allegations are true with proper oversight so the bad ones are weeded out.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Guy needs to be stopped. Then the FBI needs to do a full investigation to find out if his allegations are true with proper oversight so the bad ones are weeded out.

Should the FBI do an investigation anytime someone reports allegations or just when another officer reports them?

[Flagg]

Guy needs to be stopped. Then the FBI needs to do a full investigation to find out if his allegations are true with proper oversight so the bad ones are weeded out.

Should the FBI do an investigation anytime someone reports allegations or just when another officer reports them?

This seems like a special circumstance and with the LAPD's history...

Edit:
To expand a bit, I think it's important that we find out why this guy did this. It could be that he's a lying psychopath or delusional nutball. But he could also have been driven to this by getting fucked over after reporting real abuse. We need to know. Personally I think he's probably just a lying nutbag.

[Aaron MkII]

Guy needs to be stopped. Then the FBI needs to do a full investigation to find out if his allegations are true with proper oversight so the bad ones are weeded out.

Should the FBI do an investigation anytime someone reports allegations or just when another officer reports them?

No. But most of those don't end with a guy murdering people, especially those connected to their jobs. It really wouldn't hurt to investigate independently. It may lead to further information on what's happening.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Guy needs to be stopped. Then the FBI needs to do a full investigation to find out if his allegations are true with proper oversight so the bad ones are weeded out.

Should the FBI do an investigation anytime someone reports allegations or just when another officer reports them?

This seems like a special circumstance and with the LAPD's history...

Edit:
To expand a bit, I think it's important that we find out why this guy did this. It could be that he's a lying psychopath or delusional nutball. But he could also have been driven to this by getting fucked over after reporting real abuse. We need to know. Personally I think he's probably just a lying nutbag.

That's not unreasonable. However, I think it is important to show others that may be considering this that you won't get what you want by threatening and committing acts of violence.

[Straha]

Guy needs to be stopped. Then the FBI needs to do a full investigation to find out if his allegations are true with proper oversight so the bad ones are weeded out.

Should the FBI do an investigation anytime someone reports allegations or just when another officer reports them?

There almost definitely needs to be an outside organization tasked with investigating police misconduct. One of the recurring themes in American police departments over the decades has been that internal investigations are willing to turn a blind-eye to serious acts of misconduct and corruption for a variety of different reasons. Having an independent board of investigators would bring accountability and transparency to police forces and would set a standard for external responsibility for any police force where such a board existed.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Guy needs to be stopped. Then the FBI needs to do a full investigation to find out if his allegations are true with proper oversight so the bad ones are weeded out.

Should the FBI do an investigation anytime someone reports allegations or just when another officer reports them?

There almost definitely needs to be an outside organization tasked with investigating police misconduct. One of the recurring themes in American police departments over the decades has been that internal investigations are willing to turn a blind-eye to serious acts of misconduct and corruption for a variety of different reasons. Having an independent board of investigators would bring accountability and transparency to police forces and would set a standard for external responsibility for any police force where such a board existed.

I agree. Except, I'm talking about within this context. Sorry for not being clear.

EDIT - Though out of curiosity what level of complaints are we talking about? Should an outside agency investigate if there is a rudeness complaint or are we strictly talking criminal matters?

[Haruko]

By the way, there is a flurry of articles/extensive coverage on this story at the San Bernardino County Sun website, for anyone interested in keeping track:

http://www.sbsun.com/

[Broomstick]

One could almost wish him to freeze to death while hiding out in the mountains.... except for the lingering uncertainty of whether or not he's still out there until when - or if - his remains are ever found.

Given that most people fired by the police department don't react in this manner yes, it would be a good idea to thoroughly investigate this, both to determine if there was corruption at work here or if there was some early warning sign this guy had issues that might lead to violence down the line.

[The Romulan Republic]

That's not unreasonable. However, I think it is important to show others that may be considering this that you won't get what you want by threatening and committing acts of violence.

While I sympathize with not wanting to encourage such acts, I also don't think we should turn a blind eye to possible abuse by the police. Which would have the similar effect of encouraging officers thinking about behaving in such way to believe that they can get away with it.

[General Mung Beans]

No, they dont. Its why Manson is still alive IIRC.

CA still has the death penalty, however it was suspended in the 70's, which is why Manson's sentence was commuted to life: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_pu ... California

To elaborate a bit on this, we do have the death penalty but it hasn't been since 2006 due to legal challenges.

[General Mung Beans]

One could almost wish him to freeze to death while hiding out in the mountains.... except for the lingering uncertainty of whether or not he's still out there until when - or if - his remains are ever found.

Given that most people fired by the police department don't react in this manner yes, it would be a good idea to thoroughly investigate this, both to determine if there was corruption at work here or if there was some early warning sign this guy had issues that might lead to violence down the line.

The guy also lost his security clearance in the military and was about to expelled from it (or already expelled, not sure which), which might indicate he was showing signs of mental illness.

[Dominarch's Hope]

Damn auto-correcting spellcheck....

Anyone, I don't get your obsessions with how many LEO/non-LEO victims there are here. Everybody shot feels pain and bleeds red. Everyone dead is dead and not more or less dead depending on who they work for.

Looks like he might be hiding out in the San Bernadino mountains now. Or else he burned his truck there and took off elsewhere, hoping to mislead the authorities.

LEOs specifically put their lives on the line in America and the associated people are also part of the 'system'. Thus, its a count of how focused he really is vs just going on a purely murderous rampage.

And dont get me wrong, its horrible, but if the LAPD end up making more casualties trying to apprehend find and kill him, Im going to cry. And then if anybody ever brings up how modern day trained police officers are to be trusted far more with firearms than the average citizen*, I'l throw this in their stupid faces. Its a stupid fallacious thing to do. But I'd still do it.

Oh and he seems 100x times more competent than that guy who killed a dude at a party, then killed a park ranger and died barechested out in one of the state parks right about winter time in...2011 I think it was.

*In America specifically.

[Losonti Tokash]

The LAPD is an organization that still has one of the officers from the Rodney King incident as a captain commanding an entire police station. I am totally shocked that their investigation of themselves found the officer innocent especially after they threw out testimony supporting Dorner's claim.

[Meest]

Is this boy's/girl's club mentality still prevalent in other parts of the world? Can understand needing comradery in military and police but when it goes beyond that and seems more like frathouse hazing and crazy acceptance behavior it's just stupid.

He mentions two concussions but only have his side of the story, so he could be completely insane or just really socially awkward that getting fired is enough to sully his name and feels he can't have a family and everything else because his honour was taken etc. Found it weird that he constantly uses acronyms and comes across somewhat stunted like a teen that got access and talks big. Says he missed his friends wedding because of all the legal action, but really comes across as he gets focused on one thing and can't let go and it takes over his life.