World of Tanks Mark 2

[The Vortex Empire]

OK, just tried to use my SU-26 as a TD on a level surface for the first time after the nerf. It's ruined! Can't aim level with it anymore, so I can't hit anything close to me. Nooooo!

Sounds fine to me, arty should be 100% screwed if anyone gets close.

[Nephtys]

OK, just tried to use my SU-26 as a TD on a level surface for the first time after the nerf. It's ruined! Can't aim level with it anymore, so I can't hit anything close to me. Nooooo!

Sounds fine to me, arty should be 100% screwed if anyone gets close.

As Intended, since the SU-26 is blatantly overpowered at it's tier

[Vendetta]

Victory!
Battle: Ensk 10 February 2013 00:19:33
Vehicle: KV-1
Experience received: 4,326 (x3 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 43,756
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Sniper


KV-1 only mildly OP..... (that's 2 points short of my best performance with it, 1443 instead of 1445. Makes me wish I could retroactively have premium for a match.)

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Selling premium for a match after it's conclusion for a set price might actually be a pretty good business option.

[Vendetta]

I know I'd fall for it if I had a match like that, especially as my daily double/triple.

[Simon_Jester]

OK, just tried to use my SU-26 as a TD on a level surface for the first time after the nerf. It's ruined! Can't aim level with it anymore, so I can't hit anything close to me. Nooooo!

Sounds fine to me, arty should be 100% screwed if anyone gets close.

I think they should at least have credible ability to defend themselves- it's part of the challenge of SPG-hunting. The problem with the SU-26 is that its revolving turret makes it too good; they'd do better to limit the turret traverse like they did with the ELC, instead of giving it a minimum gun elevation higher than zero degrees like that.

[The Vortex Empire]

OK, just tried to use my SU-26 as a TD on a level surface for the first time after the nerf. It's ruined! Can't aim level with it anymore, so I can't hit anything close to me. Nooooo!

Sounds fine to me, arty should be 100% screwed if anyone gets close.

I think they should at least have credible ability to defend themselves- it's part of the challenge of SPG-hunting. The problem with the SU-26 is that its revolving turret makes it too good; they'd do better to limit the turret traverse like they did with the ELC, instead of giving it a minimum gun elevation higher than zero degrees like that.

I don't. At long range, tanks have no way to retaliate against arty, and I think it's only fair that arty has no way to retaliate against tanks at close range. Of course, arty players would go ballistic if WG ever did that.

[Imperial528]

OK, just tried to use my SU-26 as a TD on a level surface for the first time after the nerf. It's ruined! Can't aim level with it anymore, so I can't hit anything close to me. Nooooo!

Sounds fine to me, arty should be 100% screwed if anyone gets close.

I think they should at least have credible ability to defend themselves- it's part of the challenge of SPG-hunting. The problem with the SU-26 is that its revolving turret makes it too good; they'd do better to limit the turret traverse like they did with the ELC, instead of giving it a minimum gun elevation higher than zero degrees like that.

If you're arty and you need to aim at things close at you to defend yourself, your team has failed and you are already dead, tbh.
In my M37 and M41 I never let tanks get close enough for me to direct fire, if I can help it. And if they ever do, I fire and run or hide immediately. Of course the turret on the SU-26 makes it a lot better at direct fire than any other arty, since turning even a single degree while in arcade mode throws the aiming circle everywhere.

The challenge of arty hunting isn't killing the arty, it's getting to it. Though the best match in my M5 Stuart I did far more than arty kill, managed to take out a TD and medium too. It's posted here somewhere if anyone wants the details, since it was a hilarious match.

[Vendetta]

I think they should at least have credible ability to defend themselves-

The price you pay for being able to rain hurt on the enemy team with impunity for most of the match is being screwed when someone gets to you.

Arty shouldn't be able to defend itself from tanks in close, because tanks can't defend themselves from arty at any other time, only hide from it.

[Agent Sorchus]

Victory!
Battle: South Coast Saturday, February 09, 2013 8:45:26 PM
Vehicle: S-51
Experience received: 3,492 (x3 for the first victory each day)
Battle Achievements: Mastery Badge: "Ace Tanker"

Screw everyone who thinks you shouldn't be able to defend yourself. With this battle I fired Three shots with two hits as regular artillery but the side I was on was going to fail (JPZE100 vs VK45A) so I went TD mode and finished off the JPE from 30 percent with a snap shot. Then I decided that wasn't enough and went SUPER TD mode and actively hunted down the E-75 that was fighting a M46. The E-75 was at full, but I snuck up to within 50 and put my shot into his side. Dead from full.

If you think this is unfair, think that if a single one of their team was supporting him/ not dead do to superior play by the regular tanks OR they had supported the JPE-100 when he went around the corner I'd be dead and the game would've been only slightly different. If I'd played TD it would've been no different cause my initial location was so far forward anyway.

Arty shouldn't be able to defend itself from tanks in close, because tanks can't defend themselves from arty at any other time, only hide from it.

Yes they can, hiding and other sorts of play like going fast defend well enough. But what really works is teamwork and knowing that in general arty will be too busy reloading and after taking a hit tanks should take advantage of the loading time to move and take different positions.

So one who immediately dives back for cover after a hit by arty is just going to get hit again when he builds up the courage to even fight is doing it wrong.

Hell you can also give your team an idea of where there arty is set up after taking a hit, though that is very unreliable.

Now I really don't mind the recent nerf since snap defense should be an arty weakpoint, but defense in general should still be in the arty playbook. And it would really help if CB were easier.

What I'm trying to say is that high risk arty TD action should be rewarded, since it does involve dead arty more often than not.

[The Vortex Empire]

Avoiding getting hit is not defending yourself. At range, arty can shell tanks with impunity and all the tanks can do is pray that the rng doesn't decide it's their time to die. They have no way to hurt the arty. Up close, arty is at a disadvantage, yes, but they're still entirely capable of retaliating, and will sometimes get lucky enough to blow away a full speed tank. There's a massive disparity there.

And that extreme reliance on rng is a big part of why I would love if arty were removed from the game entIrely. It emphasIzes luck Instead of skIll, and leads to a game where even the best player who has made no mistakes can be blown away by somebody who just got lucky with their dice roll. There are no matches more fun in this game than ones with no arty, where I'm free to maneuver and play aggressively without getting smote by the angry hand of god for daring to not hump a rock. Even when cruising at top speed in a medium, juking the whole time, arty can and does still get lucky and hit you, and once you get tracked, which you will, it's over. Whereas if you hump rocks all games, arty can't do anything to you.

[PainRack]

Avoiding getting hit is not defending yourself. At range, arty can shell tanks with impunity and all the tanks can do is pray that the rng doesn't decide it's their time to die. They have no way to hurt the arty. Up close, arty is at a disadvantage, yes, but they're still entirely capable of retaliating, and will sometimes get lucky enough to blow away a full speed tank. There's a massive disparity there.

And that extreme reliance on rng is a big part of why I would love if arty were removed from the game entIrely. It emphasIzes luck Instead of skIll, and leads to a game where even the best player who has made no mistakes can be blown away by somebody who just got lucky with their dice roll. There are no matches more fun in this game than ones with no arty, where I'm free to maneuver and play aggressively without getting smote by the angry hand of god for daring to not hump a rock. Even when cruising at top speed in a medium, juking the whole time, arty can and does still get lucky and hit you, and once you get tracked, which you will, it's over. Whereas if you hump rocks all games, arty can't do anything to you.

I rather the game limits number of arty, since not having arty allows players to create unplayable choke points and causes everyone to turtle

[Agent Sorchus]

You're a scrub then if you think you can't move. Movement is arty-bane. Moving and shooting with mediums has never caused me arty grief, even though they are more easily taken out, they just don't get hit often enough to worry at all. I just think most people who complain about arty have the wrong mindset about these things, or are german players who really get shit upon versus arty. (French tanks used to have it worse, but the 40t isn't so easily destroyed by arty anymore.)

Every bit of this game is RNG based, who you have for team mates for instance. Just because you can't one man army all the time cause arty might get you once in a while doesn't really matter (and can be a boon to the game, instilling a little humility to the players). Hell you could be the poor ELC that took an KV-2 to the face from long range at full speed, it isn't that much different from being pasted by arty (especially since most arty doesn't actually cause that much damage to most tanks on the move except on direct hits, very rare.) Live by the Die, die by the dice.

And besides that, if arty helps prevent "high skill" players from totally smashing everyone (it doesn't happen in arty less match anyway, and some of the "skills" players learn or are taught in clans are BS and don't a good player make, the only good skill you can learn as a player is communication) that is just going to keep the player base big enough to keep this game running. Thus some humility is good, but so is aggression which the servers have a distinct lack of.

Just remember the easiest victory at Campovka is the timed field rush, but as newbs everyone discourages that behavior? Face it the Russian server is how and where this game originated, and as such it isn't ever going to perfectly match the US or EU server and the play-styles of players here or there.

ED: ^ yeah arty seems to me to actually encourage movement and charging, cause if you can close and reek havoc arty doesn't have time to aim, fire place multiple shots on target (cause arty still needs more than one hit to take anything down, even with direct hits.) Chaos prevents arty from knowing when best to fire and wait for a reload.

[PainRack]

Man, I just had a match that illustrates just how bad Russkie guns are accuracy wise. I was in my KV-3 aiming at a JagdPz IV (since it was the only thing I could see), and fired a shell at it. The shell sailed behind the TD, and I was thinking 'darn, I missed a perfect shot!'. But then I see the yellow text that says I destroyed something. The TD was still intact...so as it turns out, the shell that I thought missed hit a VK 2801, and one-shot it. Talk about luck

I've done that and gotten a kill on an invisible tank in front of the one I was shooting at. Romulan cloaking fields can make you invisible, but the shells still hit...

I can't remember whether it was in the Lee or another tank, but I once achieved a tank kill by simply randomly spamming HE shells into trees/bushes..... I swear that the only inclination I had that there was a tank there was because there were tanks moving through that road.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I can generally tell when a tank is using a 'Romulan Cloaking Bush' ( ), because I see the shells I fire vanish, instead of hitting the ground and making dust fly into the air. Not very reliable, but it works for me.

EDIT: Of course, I already have a general idea of where a tank may be, I'm not just randomly spamming shells into every bush I see

[The Vortex Empire]

In other news, the E-50 is awesome. Just got it fully upgraded and goddamn, does it get results. The top gun Is awesome and the armor bounces relIably when angled correctly. Unfortunately, it has effectively no camo value whatsoever, has squishy side and rear armor, and is the size of a Tiger II. It does not like arty.

[The Vortex Empire]

Also, just bought back the Matilda as a permanent addition to my garage, and I'd forgotten just how ridiculous this thing is. Platooned with two friends in their Matildas and we just drove straight at then spraying shots the whole match. That wouldn't work in any other tank.

[Vendetta]

Also, just bought back the Matilda as a permanent addition to my garage, and I'd forgotten just how ridiculous this thing is. Platooned with two friends in their Matildas and we just drove straight at then spraying shots the whole match. That wouldn't work in any other tank.

Depends, when you're top of the list it works quite well in the Churchills. I've broken a number of stalemates by rolling up fashionably late and just keeping going, giving no fucks at all about puny 122mms from KV-1Ss because I know they're quite likely to bounce or just get eaten by tracks.

[Admiral Valdemar]

I can generally tell when a tank is using a 'Romulan Cloaking Bush' ( ), because I see the shells I fire vanish, instead of hitting the ground and making dust fly into the air. Not very reliable, but it works for me.

EDIT: Of course, I already have a general idea of where a tank may be, I'm not just randomly spamming shells into every bush I see

It's always a dead giveaway when you see trees randomly felling themselves. If I see that (and it's something you yourself should avoid, if only to not have your velocity impacted), then I go into suppressing fire mode and spam shots around that vicinity until I either get contact visually, or am suitably convinced whatever was moving now isn't.

[Grandmaster Jogurt]

Well that was an... interesting match. Sand Hill standard in my Jumbo, I drive straight for their base and meet no resistance so I blow up their arty and start capping. However, two enemy meds also drove straight to our base and met no resistance so they blow up our arty began capping around the same time, and our team was too cautious to rush back and decap them in time. Don't think I've had a match like that on that map before.

[Simon_Jester]

I don't. At long range, tanks have no way to retaliate against arty, and I think it's only fair that arty has no way to retaliate against tanks at close range. Of course, arty players would go ballistic if WG ever did that.

Seems fair to me; according to you they should be forced to go ballistic.

Personally I think that artillery's TD-mode capability isn't really relevant. The only thing it has going for it is that it adds a bit of a wild card to the endgame, especially in matches where nearly all tanks on both sides are killed. I don't like the idea of artillery being totally useless without spotters, as opposed to being merely fragile, conspicuous, and slow-firing.

I also have this image of games being effectively reduced to a pure arty-vs-arty match and becoming totally indecisive for several minutes. Ugh.

Also, just bought back the Matilda as a permanent addition to my garage, and I'd forgotten just how ridiculous this thing is. Platooned with two friends in their Matildas and we just drove straight at then spraying shots the whole match. That wouldn't work in any other tank.

The Matilda is glorious as a top-tier tank where its armor is almost immune to enemy weapons. Not so well in higher-tier matches, because its greatest strength is its armor and that armor will not stop 75mm gunfire.

[The Vortex Empire]

Also, just bought back the Matilda as a permanent addition to my garage, and I'd forgotten just how ridiculous this thing is. Platooned with two friends in their Matildas and we just drove straight at then spraying shots the whole match. That wouldn't work in any other tank.

Depends, when you're top of the list it works quite well in the Churchills. I've broken a number of stalemates by rolling up fashionably late and just keeping going, giving no fucks at all about puny 122mms from KV-1Ss because I know they're quite likely to bounce or just get eaten by tracks.

Very true, but it seems to get tier 4 matches a solid majority of the time I play it.

[Imperial528]

Victory!
Battle: El Halluf Sunday, February 10, 2013 4:05:35 PM
Vehicle: Churchill I
Experience received: 949
Credits received: 19,682
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Sniper, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"

British tanks are weird, but they take beatings. Got hit 21 times, fired 21 shots, 19 hit. Killed a T49 with two shots, an M10 with two, a Churchill III with 13 shots, and damaged an M4 with another two. The Churchill III damaged my gun twice and destroyed it once, yet I still beat it. Ended the match with 59 hp. My team was calling me the "magic Churchill" since all of the other heavies died in under five shots.

[PhilosopherOfSorts]

One chance. If someone forces your arty into close combat, one chance is generally all you get, if they're dumb enough to approach from the front. If you miss or fail to kill whatever is on you, you are dead before you can reload. If they approach from the sides, or their own arty (which we have to worry about as much as anyone) is on the ball, you might not even get that.

Yes, it is frustrating to suddenly receive an 8 inch shell with no warning, but every shot arty takes is a calculated risk, you don't personally HAVE to retaliate if your team's arty is on point. I can't tell you how many times I've set up, drawn a bead on a target, taken one shot, missed, and was dead from counterbattery almost before my shell landed.

[Vendetta]

Also, just bought back the Matilda as a permanent addition to my garage, and I'd forgotten just how ridiculous this thing is. Platooned with two friends in their Matildas and we just drove straight at then spraying shots the whole match. That wouldn't work in any other tank.

Depends, when you're top of the list it works quite well in the Churchills. I've broken a number of stalemates by rolling up fashionably late and just keeping going, giving no fucks at all about puny 122mms from KV-1Ss because I know they're quite likely to bounce or just get eaten by tracks.

Very true, but it seems to get tier 4 matches a solid majority of the time I play it.

I think that's true of all tier 4s. It's the fact that there are a vast number of tier 4 players queueing at any one time.