Duel of the Dual Lightsabres

[Eleas]

Oh, no questions about his precognitive abilities or force powers. But all the foresight in the world won't help if you aren't fast enough to get your sword in the way to block.

Vader was powerful, but he wasn't very fast in Jedi terms.

True. I just recalled a scene like that from the Modesty Blaise book 'I, Lucifer'...

[Crown]

I think that if everyone took the time to read the following page it would clear the air a lot.

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm


I must state that I am far from an expert in swords or anything, however this person shows a reasonable explaination that even I could follow!

For those who do not wish to read it, basically if you click fighting styles, it catogorises everyones up to TPM. I loved his explainaiton of the young/old Kenobi!

[Eleas]

I think that if everyone took the time to read the following page it would clear the air a lot.

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm


I must state that I am far from an expert in swords or anything, however this person shows a reasonable explaination that even I could follow! "

Ah yes, Rob Brown. Aside from his somewhat strange fervency regarding SW, he's a pretty good analyst. He's around 3rd dan Kendo and Iaido, if I recall my facts correctly.

[Crown]

Ehh? What do I know, I just found it the best site on lightsabers on the net, and I hope everyone else enjoys it too! I can't wait till he updates it!

[Eleas]

Ehh? What do I know, I just found it the best site on lightsabers on the net, and I hope everyone else enjoys it too! I can't wait till he updates it!

That's just it - he won't. He's on a holy crusade against the new prequels.

[Tsyroc]

Ehh? What do I know, I just found it the best site on lightsabers on the net, and I hope everyone else enjoys it too! I can't wait till he updates it!

That's just it - he won't. He's on a holy crusade against the new prequels.

That's too bad. I was hoping to see what he had to say about Dooku's style of fighting. It seemed to me that with a weapon like a light sabre it would be more effective and make perfect sense to use it in a fencing fashion when in light sabre vs. light sabre battle. It only takes the slightest touch to do some damage so why not go the fencing route.

I will say that the "sword" fighting style is more fun to watch. I would imagine that two Form II combatants would be as cool to watch as.... fencing.

[Lagmonster]

That's too bad. I was hoping to see what he had to say about Dooku's style of fighting.

Analyzing Dooku is REALLY hard, since a lot of the fight scenes are short, quick cuts, in the dark, with close ups of the face rather than the moves. Dooku isn't really a sportsman. He holds his ground, doesn't give much ground EVER (even to Yoda), and relies on force abilities more than his sword, like the lightning, to weary his opponents before he actually has to fight with them - VERY similar to Vader in that sense.

The similarities end there. Dooku is much faster than Vader. His grip is a fencing-style pistol grip. Being familiar with it myself, I can tell you that it's only good FOR fencing. The traditional Jedi two-handed method is *great* for heavier swords like katanas, whereas the light foil of the west is better in one hand, so you can afford to get your body out of the way and present a smaller profile. Lightsabres MAY not have any mass to swing, but requires more control since a touch is deadly. The argument becomes: Do you use one hand to take advantage of the greater range of movement you have with your body, or use two hands to ensure steadier control of your weapon?

Jedi are supposed to have force-control over their weapon and movements, so one would wonder why they don't all adopt western fencing stances. Funny thing is, I've seen Qui-Gon and others strike with two hands on the hilt as if they *need* the extra power to push the blade through, like when fighting the Droids in Ep.I.

Dooku probably has enough control over the force, and is slow enough physically at his age, that he prefers the one-hander method in order to allow him to keep his body out of the path of the weapon as much as possible, and so uses the pistol grip to fight, and the force to guide his blade and body, which is nowhere near as fast as Anakin. Nonetheless, I believe he beats Anakin thanks to 1) wearing him down with the lightning first and 2) not giving ground. I think Anakin was expecting the two-handed bum rush to take Dooku quickly, and wasn't thinking about having to maintain any sort of long-time defense. Dooku could not have been the more athletic or powerful swordsman, but he was a BRILLIANT swords tactician, against both calculating foes like Obi-Wan and idiots like Anakin.

[Vympel]

Vader WILL kill an Old Republic Jedi in Episode III. I just know it

And all ye doubters shall be proven wrong- Yea, verily, so it was written

Vader's a bad ass. The paticularities of how exactly he fights aside (pre recogintion, whatever), if he can kill Mace Windu, I'll be SOOOOO happy.

[Vympel]

Oh and btw, why is he on a 'holy crusade' against the prequels? What's wrong with them?

[Vympel]

Never mind- just read through his site. What a waste- fanatical jihad against the prequels it seems. Oh *grow up* ..... what a cry-baby.

"waahhhh.... the prequel sabers are different... waaaaaaahhhhhh"

[Crown]

What crusade against the prequels?

If you go to the home page, click on what's new you will get this...

INTENTION TO UPGRADE:

JEDIFIGHTER: to reflect the new information on the Delta7 Aethersprite incl Hyperdrive Ring & better images (and that pesky droid)
LIGHTSABRES: to add in numerous new images of EpII sabres + extensive new discussion on fighting techniques to cover Dooku's curious style and its ramifications
SLAVE1: to cover its appearance in EpII *plus* the new official recognition (EpII:ICS) of internal antigrav, and the halfway concession of the silliness of rotating cockpits
TRADE FEDERATION: to reflect new 'super battle droid' and some other new aspects of the TradFed military from EpII
R2D2: to reflect some new tools, and the remarkable flying sequence from EpII
SILLY STUFF: a tribute to the "Chiang effect" [in the style of the "flying fork" logo]

So I guess we will just have to wait a bit more...

[Vympel]

His contempt of the style of fighting formulated for the prequels is obvious- he hates that its a mix of all sorts of things- not just the japanese swordsmanship (I dont know the term, who cares anyway) that he makes a good case for in the classics.

[Crown]

No, his contemptuace of young Obi-Wan's recklessness, and praises Qui-Gon and Maul....

[Eleas]

No, his contemptuace of young Obi-Wan's recklessness, and praises Qui-Gon and Maul....

I think it would give the best picture of the situation if I just reposted his earlier mission statement...

Having stupidly glanced at some of the leaked support materials for Episode II, it becomes apparent that with the impending release of AoTC, LucasFilm Limited have increased their efforts to marginalise, if not destroy, the culture of independant SW commentary.

By mass publication of illconsidered, politically correct and thoroughly medicore 'official' material on every concievable topic, and by carefully choosing to make pronouncements which deliberately shut out traditional areas from independant analysis, they have left only two options for those wishing to express their support of the genre:

(1) to shift from praise and enthusiastic support - expressed through gainful research and exploration of the genre - to the writing of critques, noting where their marketting & design gurus have gone wrong, thus reducing "fans" to "critics" and leaving them open for attack from their fellows for lack of loyalty to the brandname.

*or*

(2) to engage in simple regurgition of the pre-chewed opinions scanned from various 'factfiles' 'visual dictionaries' 'roleplay sourcebooks' and 'comics' - in other words, to become free publicity agents.

LucasFilm, having benefitted from a culture of fandom which maintained a steady income stream for 20 years, have now driven it underground in the name of a quick buck. (note how, since the prequels, toystores no longer stock the 'permanent' StarWars shelf that has sat in the corner for two decades?) But then again, this from the organisation founded and run by the man who told his most loyal long-term fans (who paid for his mansion) to "get a life".

So, all I can say now is, well done guys. Regardless of how sad the plotline, how lame the stunts or how tame the soundtrack, you'll make (as Rick McCallum so delicately put it at ShoWest recently...) "sh*tloads of cash".

If money is all that you love, then that's what you'll recieve. I wonder if you really care about anything, or anybody.

This site is off the air, at least until after EpisodeII has screened and the signal-to-noise ratio is restored.

Robert B K Brown
3rd Dead Jedi from the left

There you have it.

[Crown]

Huh, I didn't see that! Damn!

[Vympel]

Nor did I. Just strengthens the case. Still, I read enough to see that the guy's an unbelievable SNOB, and a whiner.

"waaaahh, I don't like the Visual Dictionary ... waaaaaaaaahhhh"


Too bad. If it wasn't for that, the site would be a totally good read. He clearly has a massive ego: the contempt for the official material just OOZES from his pores.

"to engage in simple regurgition of the pre-chewed opinions scanned from various 'factfiles' 'visual dictionaries' 'roleplay sourcebooks' and 'comics' - in other words, to become free publicity agents"

[Vympel]

Different mission statement:

"have never claimed to have "The Answers", I do not.

All I have ever hoped to achieve with this site is to encourage people to THINK FOR THEMSELVES (not necessarilly to think like myself!). By challenging many assumptions and corporate 'lines' I simply hope to encourage independant thought.

Please feel free to disagree with any of my conclusions, but PLEASE think about why you disagree.

It saddens me to see the fans willingly accept the (often official) double-think necessary to swallow the inconsistencies and factual errors perpetrated by often 'official' sources and licencees.

It is my sincere hope that an informed, analytical, constructively-critical and speculative fan-base will keep LFL and its agents on their toes, and keep the STARWARS epic where it should be ... on top!"

Independent thought? Challenging corporate lines? There's only so much room for such things in Star Wars. If you can contradict the official material with a canon reference, then by all means, do so. But if there's no contradiction, the point made by the official material stands, even if you don't like it.

[Soontir C'boath]

Two individual sabers. It's easier and more flexible to handle than the double bladed.

Cyaround,
Jason

[FireNexus]

His contempt of the style of fighting formulated for the prequels is obvious- he hates that its a mix of all sorts of things- not just the japanese swordsmanship (I dont know the term, who cares anyway) that he makes a good case for in the classics.

Japanese Swordsmanship = Aikido

[Evil Sadistic Bastard]

Uhh.... Aikido is NOT swordsmanship. It is a martial art intended to be used with bare hands.

The word you are looking for is " kenjutsu ", " kendo ", " iaijutsu " or " iaido " perhaps?

[Eleas]

Uhh.... Aikido is NOT swordsmanship. It is a martial art intended to be used with bare hands.

The word you are looking for is " kenjutsu ", " kendo ", " iaijutsu " or " iaido " perhaps?

Not quite - while Aikido concentrates on bare-handed forms, these are by no means the only ones. Bokken, the wooden practice sword, and Jo, short staff, are both used.