Fired Cop On a Murderous Rampage in SoCal

[Havok]

It looks like a fire truck just headed up.

It's funny though, one of the spokeswomen at the hospital described all law enforcement as one big family that protects each other... you know, like the Mafia.

[Havok]

I'm curious to see what this starts. I can see police being targeted now for no other reason than being cops.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

Okay, now I see that he was in one cabin originally and laid down smoke there before escaping it in the gunbattle to the one he was pinned in, and the early helicopter videos focused on the first since it still was marked with smoke, not the second.

[Stark]

Vicarious boners aside, how has this situation impacted actual law enforcement for normal people?

[Havok]

Haven't really heard anything. I'm sure there has been no impact around here, as it is happening over 5 hours where I am.

[weemadando]

The most hilarious commentary was from CBS, I want to see the actual clip of this, but paraphrasing it:

"While still a member of the LAPD a white officer called him 'nigger' and Dorner responded by grabbing him. So clearly we've seen long term mental health issues."

And in actual best commentary:
“@whippedqueen welcome to being black. RT @abc7newsBayArea:#LAPD Chief: To be targeted because of what you are, that is absolutely terrifying.”

[Kamakazie Sith]

Seems a Marshals service air unit just reported positive ID on the suspect.

Lots of other units heading into the area, Command trucks and air units ferrying SWAT teams have been on the feed a bit.

Given there's already been officers injured in this exchange I can't see this ending well.

Also, if you live anywhere near Big Bear, sounds like ALL the roads are getting closed.

I had hope that there would be no further deaths but the news is reporting that one of those deputies has died.

[Broomstick]

Looks like they pulled a body out of the burning cabin, believed to be Dorner's, so his rampage may well be over.

[GoldenBough]

I was really hoping he'd end up turning himself in at an FBI office, and riding the media coverage into a shit-show for the LAPD.

I read the manifesto, and while I agree that he has a couple bolts loose, he doesn't seem "crazy" in the usual sense of the word. I can't condone the killings in any way. Period. It's the wrong response, and there's no justification for it. Beyond that, the institutionalized thuggery of the LAPD is a problem. Internal investigations are a joke. The board that found his complaint baseless had 2 members who were directly associated with the subject of the complaint, and declined to rescue themselves from the proceedings. The man turned in $8,000 cash he found in a bag. Does he seem like the kind of cop that was unfit for duty, or more like the honest kind that just couldn't hack it in the current system we've allowed to develop in LA? The man has some serious, and likely HIGHLY accurate complaints about the system. He just went about resolving them in a very poor manner.

[Dominarch's Hope]

So they found him? What if it isnt him?

[Losonti Tokash]

Riverside county police chief just confirmed it was him. What a shitshow this whole thing was.

[Dominarch's Hope]

Damn. Is it wrong that I kinda hoped it was a false indentification and that the chase was still on? With all the various implications?

[General Mung Beans]

I was really hoping he'd end up turning himself in at an FBI office, and riding the media coverage into a shit-show for the LAPD.

I read the manifesto, and while I agree that he has a couple bolts loose, he doesn't seem "crazy" in the usual sense of the word. I can't condone the killings in any way. Period. It's the wrong response, and there's no justification for it. Beyond that, the institutionalized thuggery of the LAPD is a problem. Internal investigations are a joke. The board that found his complaint baseless had 2 members who were directly associated with the subject of the complaint, and declined to rescue themselves from the proceedings. The man turned in $8,000 cash he found in a bag. Does he seem like the kind of cop that was unfit for duty, or more like the honest kind that just couldn't hack it in the current system we've allowed to develop in LA? The man has some serious, and likely HIGHLY accurate complaints about the system. He just went about resolving them in a very poor manner.

Dorner had numerous problems at the police academy and as a probation officer before his accusation and subsquent firing.

I'm just glad the threat is over, although sadly another man died to-dy.

[Havok]

About to have an LAPD press conference.

[Havok]

No body yet. The cabin hasn't been searched.

[Havok]

Dorner had numerous problems at the police academy and as a probation officer before his accusation and subsquent firing.

Do you have the relevant info for this?

[GoldenBough]

Dorner had numerous problems at the police academy and as a probation officer before his accusation and subsquent firing.

Can you provide information regarding what these issues were? He brought them up himself in his manifesto, along with his side of the story. Because the LAPD has a nice history of drumming out whistle blowers and people who won't go along with the system.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I was really hoping he'd end up turning himself in at an FBI office, and riding the media coverage into a shit-show for the LAPD.

I read the manifesto, and while I agree that he has a couple bolts loose, he doesn't seem "crazy" in the usual sense of the word.

I guess you haven't been around a lot of "crazy" people. Just because someone is mentally ill does not mean that they aren't capable of influencing people, being articulate, writing, or planning. It really depends on what condition they're suffering from.

I can't condone the killings in any way. Period. It's the wrong response, and there's no justification for it. Beyond that, the institutionalized thuggery of the LAPD is a problem. Internal investigations are a joke.

Yeah, the LAPD has a very dirty reputation that will take decades to improve.

The board that found his complaint baseless had 2 members who were directly associated with the subject of the complaint, and declined to rescue themselves from the proceedings.

I didn't realize that Dorner's manifesto was considered truth. That might be true that two of the board members were friends of the accused and if so certainly does cast doubt on their decisions, however, according to one of the earlier articles Dorner's claim and that of the victim were found to be baseless because of three independent witnesses. At this point the LAPD should release that findings of this investigation to the media and if those witnesses are willing they should share their story with the media.

Three witnesses – two hotel employees and a port police officer – testified that they did not see the kicks and Gettler’s account of events, which included being kicked, were ruled to lack credibility. According to Gettler’s father, the Los Angeles Times noted, “his son’s mental illness prevented him from being a good witness and that he was easily scared and would often answer ‘yes’ to everything.”

Source

In 2010 a judge reviewed the report and claims he was uncertain whether or not Sgt. Evans kicked the victim.

The man turned in $8,000 cash he found in a bag. Does he seem like the kind of cop that was unfit for duty, or more like the honest kind that just couldn't hack it in the current system we've allowed to develop in LA? The man has some serious, and likely HIGHLY accurate complaints about the system. He just went about resolving them in a very poor manner.

Uh yeah. His actions today show that he is unfit for duty. Just because he went off on other police officers instead of civilians does not change this.

As for his complaints...too bad he choose to this route instead of speaking out the media.

[General Mung Beans]

Dorner had numerous problems at the police academy and as a probation officer before his accusation and subsquent firing.

Do you have the relevant info for this?

Here:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... full.story

A few days into training, the recruits were explicitly told to only wear white or black shoes for a conditioning run, the officer said. Dorner, however, showed up in bright neon sneakers. "He thought he knew it all, that rules just kind of didn't apply to him," the officer said. "He was not a team player."

According to the officer, Dorner was kicked out of his academy class at least one time, when he accidentally shot himself in the hand. Internal disciplinary records show that Dorner was suspended for two days for an accidental discharge in 2005. He finished his training with another academy class, the officer said, and joined the force as an officer in February 2006, police records show.

Evans would later tell internal affairs investigators that Dorner confessed to her on the first day they worked together that he was unhappy with the way the LAPD handled a complaint he made against some of his classmates in the academy, according to police records. He believed the LAPD was a racist organization and told Evans he planned to sue the department at the end of his probation period, Evans reported.

Dorner repeatedly made mistakes in the field, Evans said. Shortly after becoming partners, they responded to a report of an armed man and Dorner stood in the middle of the street to confront the suspect without any cover, she said. Evans said she told Dorner that she was going to recommend that he be removed from the field unless he improved his performance, according to the internal affairs records.

The struggling officer's ultimate undoing began on the morning of July 28, when he and Evans were dispatched to a report of a man who had refused to leave a local hotel.

The officers found the mentally ill man seated on a bench. When he refused a command to stand up, Dorner took the man's wrist and pulled him up, records show. A struggle ensued and Evans had to grab Dorner's Taser stun gun from his belt to subdue the man

[GoldenBough]

I didn't realize that Dorner's manifesto was considered truth. That might be true that two of the board members were friends of the accused and if so certainly does cast doubt on their decisions, however, according to one of the earlier articles Dorner's claim and that of the victim were found to be baseless because of three independent witnesses. At this point the LAPD should release that findings of this investigation to the media and if those witnesses are willing they should share their story with the media.

I can't speak to the hotel employees, but we do know that the patrol officer witness was at least mistaken with his interaction with Dorner (re: his tie), and of course Dorner's claims of off-the-record admission of guilt.

*snip*

I'm not seeing anything particularly problematic there. The running shoes thing I suppose, but to tell the truth it's not really possible to find nice running shoes in anything but garish colors anymore. If you've read the manifesto, Dorner references the complaint. His side is that he stopped another recruit from singing/quoting/referencing Nazi songs about burning Jews in the ghetto to another recruit, Abraham Schefres. Exact quote is:

During the BOR, the department attempted to label me unsuccessfully as a bully. They stated that I had bullied a recruit, Abraham Schefres, in the academy when in reality and unfounded disposition from the official 1.28 formal complaint investigation found that I was the one who stood up for Abraham Schefres when other recruits sang nazi hitler youth songs about burning Jewish ghettos in WWII Germany where his father was a survivor of a concentration camp.

Should be easy enough to verify, if anyone can get their hands on the actual complaint... He also mentions the disciplinary record of Evans, which again, should be easy to verify. Here's hoping that someone with real media credentials has a chance to examine his claims against the records and see how they stack up.

[edit] Oh, and something I wanted to bring up from a few pages ago, regarding the officer present at the Rodney King incident who is now Captain. I don't give a flying fuck if he did or did not swing a baton. If you've taken an oath to the public, and stand by and watch your fellow officers beat the shit out of a man, then you are a cowardly sack of shit and should have a brand on your cheek proclaiming you as such. "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" is never more relevant than when it applies to our law enforcement or military. Once you swear that oath, you are held to a higher standard. End of story.

[Kamakazie Sith]

I can't speak to the hotel employees, but we do know that the patrol officer witness was at least mistaken with his interaction with Dorner (re: his tie), and of course Dorner's claims of off-the-record admission of guilt.

Whatever interaction with the patrol officer witness you are speaking about isn't in the source I quoted. Could you cite it?

I'm not seeing anything particularly problematic there. The running shoes thing I suppose, but to tell the truth it's not really possible to find nice running shoes in anything but garish colors anymore. If you've read the manifesto, Dorner references the complaint. His side is that he stopped another recruit from singing/quoting/referencing Nazi songs about burning Jews in the ghetto to another recruit, Abraham Schefres. Exact quote is:

Your shoe comment made me laugh. It is possible to find running shoes in black and white. It is actually very easy. Showing up in bright neon green shoes is just retarded in a paramilitary setting.

http://www.newbalance.com/men/shoes/run ... lt,sc.html

Should be easy enough to verify, if anyone can get their hands on the actual complaint... He also mentions the disciplinary record of Evans, which again, should be easy to verify. Here's hoping that someone with real media credentials has a chance to examine his claims against the records and see how they stack up.

I agree. The LAPD should be as transparent as possible.

[edit] Oh, and something I wanted to bring up from a few pages ago, regarding the officer present at the Rodney King incident who is now Captain. I don't give a flying fuck if he did or did not swing a baton. If you've taken an oath to the public, and stand by and watch your fellow officers beat the shit out of a man, then you are a cowardly sack of shit and should have a brand on your cheek proclaiming you as such. "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing" is never more relevant than when it applies to our law enforcement or military. Once you swear that oath, you are held to a higher standard. End of story.

A judge ruled the last seven or so strikes excessive. This means you would need to prove that he was aware those last strikes were excessive and failed to act. That's why the now Captain wasn't charged with being an accomplice to excessive force.

[GoldenBough]

Whatever interaction with the patrol officer witness you are speaking about isn't in the source I quoted. Could you cite it?

Sure, from the Dorner manifesto:

He also stated
that he assisted in cuffing the suspect and that’s old the BOR he told me to
fix my tie.

A link (earlier in the thread I think, or I may have saw it on Reddit) amounted to the same thing. Footage shows that Dorner was in a uniform without a tie that day, and the officer is on record during the disposition or similar with that statement.

Your shoe comment made me laugh. It is possible to find running shoes in black and white. It is actually very easy. Showing up in bright neon green shoes is just retarded in a paramilitary setting.

http://www.newbalance.com/men/shoes/run ... lt,sc.html

Ah, NB, fantastic, quite literally the only brand you can reference that supports your point (and I'm a runner, and like plain light grey shoes with minimal trim). I prefer Asics myself, but they're a quality shoe. I see the 2040 (I wear cushioning) is grey, and would likely pass muster. Don't know if I'd drop $275 for a training run if I already had perfectly functional shoes already, but it certainly is a against-the-rules situation. That guy must certainly have been a handful at training, with his bright shoes and all.

A judge ruled the last seven or so strikes excessive. This means you would need to prove that he was aware those last strikes were excessive and failed to act. That's why the now Captain wasn't charged with being an accomplice to excessive force.

That's an awfully weak defense, and absolutely worthless in my mind. We're going to have to simply disagree here. I feel very strongly about what the role of police officers is, and beating civilians isn't something that should be in the job description.

[Havok]

Oh for fucks sake, as someone that has struck someone enough to count high enough to break up blows into blocks of seven, you know gawddamned well when the hits are getting excessive. It surprises me fucking zero that a cop can say "you have to prove the guy knew the last seven strikes were excessive" with a straight fucking face. The fact that he couldn't figure it out one way or another is enough reason for him never to sniff another promotion.

[Haruko]

Assuming someone did not already mention this, you guys might find this interesting:

Audio: Police appear to give orders to burn down cabin with Christopher Dorner believed to be inside

Read more: http://www.sbsun.com/breakingnews/ci_22 ... z2KkzPLqr3

The audio is embedded on that page.

By the way, speaking as a San Bernardino resident who lives right next to the San Bernardino International Airport, I was driving south on Del Rosa heading to 5th Street at 5PM when I saw a convoy of black cars and vans with sirens inside racing toward and into the airport. The most notable vehicle was a tow truck with the LAPD logo on the doors and a long bed holding an armored vehicle of some sort. Cannot recall enough about the vehicle to say what it was and mention specifics, but it certainly was not on its way to a car show, and not what you usually see at a police department headquarters parking lot. I also saw a convoy of the same kind of vehicles racing toward the airport on 3rd Street hours earlier, but have no idea if it was the same group.

Have no idea if this has to do with the case talked about in this topic, but I have never seen a convoy of LAPD here in San Bernardino ever despite living here for over a decade, and I remember one San Bernardino County Sun article mentioned a "Bobcat," or armored vehicle with a battering ram, heading toward the cabin where the suspect was supposedly barricaded in. I wonder if that vehicle was what I saw on the tow truck bed, or if that was something else entirely, assuming that convoy had anything to do with the case in the first place. Maybe not as I have no idea why they would head west to the airport rather than east up the mountain, except for maybe an airlift? though I do not know if that would be a good option (is there an airport close to the scene?), or even if a plane big and strong enough to haul at least that armored car was readily available.

[Havok]

More than likely.