Remember the 3am phone call ad?

[TimothyC]

Obama made no phone calls on night of Benghazi attack, White House says

By Stephen Dinan - The Washington Times Thursday, February 14, 2013

President Obama didn't make any phone calls the night of the Sept. 11 attacks on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, the White House said in a letter to Congress released Thursday.

"During the entire attack, the president of the United States never picked up the phone to put the weight of his office in the mix," said Sen. Lindsey Graham, South Carolina Republican, who had held up Mr. Obama's defense secretary nominee to force the information to be released.

Mr. Graham said that if Mr. Obama had picked up the phone, at least two of the Americans killed in the attacks on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi might still be alive because he might have been able to push U.S. aid to get to the scene faster.

The White House has said Mr. Obama was kept up to date on the attack by his staff, though after being alerted to the attack in a pre-scheduled afternoon meeting he never spoke again with Defense Secretary Leon Panetta, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Martin E. Dempsey or then-Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Mr. Panetta told Congress last week that he knew immediately the attacks were a terrorist assault, though the White House downplayed that notion in the first five days after the attack.

Republican senators said they will still push for more information on who changed the talking points given to U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice, who went on the Sunday talk shows after the attacks and blamed protests against an anti-Islam video.

Mr. Graham said he will block the president's nominee to head the CIA until he hears more details about what Mr. Obama was doing.

Sen. John McCain said the White House's reticence in releasing information contrasts poorly with the flood of details the White House put out about the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, which has spawned two movies.

"We still don't know what the president of the United States was doing the night of the attack and who he was talking to. We know who he wasn't talking to," Mr. McCain said.

All of the credit, none of the responsibility.

[Flagg]

No one cares about Benghazi.

[Broomstick]

My guess for "what the president was doing" at 3 am is sleep, because, you know, he has to do that every so often. The question then is "should the PotUS have been wakened for this?".

It's still republications angling for any opening they can.

[Losonti Tokash]

I guess if he called someone he could have authorized use of a teleporter but this is just Graham looking as pathetic as ever because he's terrified of being primaried by tea partiers.

[TimothyC]

No one cares about Benghazi.

If no one cares, why didn't this come out prior to the election? Oh wait, it does a number of the narrative the campaign was spinning. Wouldn't want that now would we?

My guess for "what the president was doing" at 3 am is sleep, because, you know, he has to do that every so often. The question then is "should the PotUS have been wakened for this?".

It's still republications angling for any opening they can.

Read the article Broomstick.

President Obama knew the attack was ongoing at 5pm and made no further phone calls to his Secretaries of Defense or State or the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

[Losonti Tokash]

So what? He was kept updated constantly and had already spoken with them earlier. Was he supposed to micromanage his staff while they were actually working on it? Maybe if these guys were so goddamn concerned about it they could have actually gone to the funerals.

[TheHammer]

The Republicans need to realize that the election is OVER. Obama won, he doesn't need to get re-elected again. Besides, the entire premise is bullshit. Just because Obama didn't physically make a phone call doesn't mean he was "doing nothing".

And it's not that people "dont care about Benghazi", its that we don't care about the political narrative that right wingers want to make it in to.

[Broomstick]

Read the article Broomstick.

President Obama knew the attack was ongoing at 5pm and made no further phone calls to his Secretaries of Defense or State or the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs.

Man still needs to sleep. If he's delegated his authority and already instructed those people why shouldn't he get some sleep? What would his staying awake do for the crisis?

In other words, the article doesn't tell me enough to get outraged. It's not like the PotUS is going to suit up like Iron Man and personally take out the bad guys. Did the people under him the authority to act do so appropriately? If they required further authorization did they make and effort to contact the PotUS that was rebuffed? Those strike me as more important than the fact the PotUS got some sleep that night.

[TimothyC]

So what? He was kept updated constantly and had already spoken with them earlier. Was he supposed to micromanage his staff while they were actually working on it? Maybe if these guys were so goddamn concerned about it they could have actually gone to the funerals.

He's the one who has made a point about how he authorized the raid on the bin Laden compound, and how he gets involved in approving targets for drone strikes. If he can micro-manage that, then he can take the blame for not managing the response to the attack on Benghazi.

[JLTucker]

Timothy: 4 deaths is inconsequential compared to the total number of deaths on Bush's and Obama's watch.

[Mr Bean]

So what? He was kept updated constantly and had already spoken with them earlier. Was he supposed to micromanage his staff while they were actually working on it? Maybe if these guys were so goddamn concerned about it they could have actually gone to the funerals.

He's the one who has made a point about how he authorized the raid on the bin Laden compound, and how he gets involved in approving targets for drone strikes. If he can micro-manage that, then he can take the blame for not managing the response to the attack on Benghazi.

TimothyC your failing into the same trap. Bengazhi was an attack by agents on an American consulate in a foreign country were we are not exactly welcome. No phone call or order by the President could have made would have changed the outcome. The only thing that could have changed anything would not happen at 3AM but two days previous when the decision was made to not completely abandon the consulat for fear of just such an attack. At that time and place without the powers of a God there was nothing within range to do anything of consequence. I've heard mention of air support... to do what? The attackers were inside the compound before the under attack message got out. You going to drop 2000 pound bombs on someone twenty feet away from the targets your trying to protect? Good frigging luck with that.

Meanwhile the Bin Laden raid was a plan that took shape over months were WE were the initiating force. Of course he's going to be on the line when we launch an attack. As for micro-managing the raid. He ordered it set up, but he did not plan, take part or do anything but monitor it. So saying he "micro-managed it" is a bit of a misnomer, he had very little to do with the mechanics of the raid itself.

[TheHammer]

So what? He was kept updated constantly and had already spoken with them earlier. Was he supposed to micromanage his staff while they were actually working on it? Maybe if these guys were so goddamn concerned about it they could have actually gone to the funerals.

He's the one who has made a point about how he authorized the raid on the bin Laden compound, and how he gets involved in approving targets for drone strikes. If he can micro-manage that, then he can take the blame for not managing the response to the attack on Benghazi.

He authorized the raid on the Bin Laden compound. He didn't personally plan and manage the attack.

As for Benghazi, Do some research on the battle and you'll also realize it wasn't a single sustained attack, rather two separate attacks occuring hours apart at separate locations. I don't know why everyone insists on treating it as a single battle.

The timeline below makes things pretty clear:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/world/afr ... i-timeline

(CNN) -- The Pentagon released Friday an hour-by-hour timeline of the September 11 assault on the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya, highlighting when Defense Secretary Leon Panetta and senior commanders were informed of the attack and when decisions were made to move forces to assist. The release comes as the Obama administration is facing increasing questions over its response to the attack.

Obama administration continues explanations on Benghazi decision-making

September 11 (Events are listed using the time in Benghazi)

9:42 p.m. -- Armed men begin their assault on the U.S. Consulate.

9:59 p.m. -- A surveillance drone is directed to fly over the U.S. compound, but it is unarmed.

10:32 p.m. -- The Office of the Secretary Defense and the Joint Staff are notified of the attack by the National Military Command Center at the Pentagon. "The information is quickly passed to Secretary Panetta and General Dempsey."

11 p.m. -- Panetta and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey meet with President Obama at the White House where they discuss the unfolding situation and how to respond. The meeting had been previously scheduled.

11:10 p.m. -- The surveillance drone arrives over the Benghazi facility.

11:30 p.m. -- All surviving U.S. personnel are evacuated from the consulate. U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and State Department computer expert Sean Smith were killed in the initial assault.

So the first battle was over less than half an hour after Obama was briefed. What else was he supposed to do? They obviously discussed what actions to take moving forward, but at that point there was no "active" situation to be micro managed even if Obama were inclined to do so.

September 12

Midnight to 2 a.m. -- Panetta and other senior leaders discuss possible options for further violence if it were to break out. Panetta gives verbal orders for Marine anti-terrorist teams from Rota, Spain, to prepare to deploy to Tripoli and Benghazi. Panetta also orders a special operations force team training in Croatia and an additional special operations force team in the United States to prepare to deploy to a staging base in southern Italy.

1:30 a.m. -- A six-man security team from the U.S. Embassy in Tripoli arrives in Benghazi.

2:39 a.m. to 2:53 a.m. -- The National Military Command Center gives formal authorization for the deployment of the two special operations force teams from Croatia and the United States.

5:15 a.m. -- Attackers launch assault on a second U.S. facility in Benghazi. Two former U.S. Navy SEALs acting as security contractors are killed. They are identified as Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty.

A second attack occurs several hours later without warning. As you can see, in the interim there were still actions taking place, its not as though nothing was happening. No one was sitting on their hands waiting for Presidential micromanagement.

6:05 a.m. -- A C-17 aircraft in Germany is told to prepare to deploy to Libya to evacuate the consulate personnel.

7:40 a.m. -- The first wave of Americans are evacuated to Tripoli via airplane.

10 a.m. -- A second group, including those killed in the attack, are flown to Tripoli.

2:15 p.m. -- The C-17 departs from Germany for the flight to Tripoli.

7:17 p.m. -- The C-17 leaves Tripoli with the American consulate personnel and the bodies of Stevens, Smith, Woods and Doherty.

7:57 p.m. -- The U.S. special operations force team based in Croatia arrives at a staging base in Italy.

8:56 p.m. -- One of the Marine anti-terrorist teams from Spain arrives in Tripoli.

9:28 p.m. -- The U.S.-based special operations force team arrives at its staging base in Italy.

[K. A. Pital]

Wait... Are people really expecting that Obama is like a X-com player who micros every tactical decision of a special forces team by staying up at 3 am?

I'm kind of impressed. I mean, you can wake up at 3 am if someone just blew up the WTC or there's an invasion... or something. Why would you, head of state, need to stay up when you're not useful?

[chitoryu12]

Wait... Are people really expecting that Obama is like a X-com player who micros every tactical decision of a special forces team by staying up at 3 am?

I'm kind of impressed. I mean, you can wake up at 3 am if someone just blew up the WTC or there's an invasion... or something. Why would you, head of state, need to stay up when you're not useful?

It's the same logic where the president doesn't need to work with anyone else in the government to do anything, and he can just change the nation or make decisions for the entire country without even looking at Congress. Which leads to people accusing him of being useless or two-faced for not immediately doing everything he claimed to do, as if he was some kind of dictator.

[Haruko]

I cannot believe the conduct of Sen. Lindsey Graham. By focusing on this issue, he is taking away from focus on the real issue that concerns every American citizen: Israeli security. I am starting to wonder if Sen. Graham would allow Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth just to talk about Benghazi.

[TimothyC]

TimothyC you're failing into the same trap. Benghazi was an attack by agents on an American consulate in a foreign country where we are not exactly welcome. No phone call or order by the President could have made would have changed the outcome. The only thing that could have changed anything would not happen at 3AM but two days previous when the decision was made to not completely abandon the consulate for fear of just such an attack. At that time and place without the powers of a God there was nothing within range to do anything of consequence. I've heard mention of air support... to do what? The attackers were inside the compound before the under attack message got out. You going to drop 2000 pound bombs on someone twenty feet away from the targets your trying to protect? Good frigging luck with that.

While stopping the deaths of Ambassador Stevens and Mr. Smith would have been next to, if not impossible, additional forces could have been deployed in support of the security annex. And if the current news about Benghazi isn't a big deal, why didn't it come out before the election? Also we have reports of the forces on the ground at the annex being able to observe people setting up mortars to attack them.

Wait... Are people really expecting that Obama is like a X-com player who micros every tactical decision of a special forces team by staying up at 3 am?

I'm kind of impressed. I mean, you can wake up at 3 am if someone just blew up the WTC or there's an invasion... or something. Why would you, head of state, need to stay up when you're not useful?

I expect the President to show up for his job, and talk with his advisers when a US Ambassador has been killed. The afternoon prior he had spent time at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, and the next day he had a campaign event (source - Whitehouse.gov(1), (2)). Also, if you would read this again, the only reference to anything happening at 3am Washington time was in the thread title, where I reference a primary campaign ad from 2008.

Hammar, I've taken the liberty of changing the times to EDT - which paints the lack of action in a different light.

September 11
3:42 p.m. -- Armed men begin their assault on the U.S. Consulate.
3:59 p.m. -- A surveillance drone is directed to fly over the U.S. compound, but it is unarmed.
4:32 p.m. -- The Office of the Secretary Defense and the Joint Staff are notified of the attack by the National Military Command Center at the Pentagon. "The information is quickly passed to Secretary Panetta and General Dempsey."
5 p.m. -- Panetta and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey meet with President Obama at the White House where they discuss the unfolding situation and how to respond. The meeting had been previously scheduled.
5:10 p.m. -- The surveillance drone arrives over the Benghazi facility.
5:30 p.m. -- All surviving U.S. personnel are evacuated from the consulate. U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and State Department computer expert Sean Smith were killed in the initial assault.
6 to 8 p.m. -- Panetta and other senior leaders discuss possible options for further violence if it were to break out. Panetta gives verbal orders for Marine anti-terrorist teams from Rota, Spain, to prepare to deploy to Tripoli and Benghazi. Panetta also orders a special operations force team training in Croatia and an additional special operations force team in the United States to prepare to deploy to a staging base in southern Italy.
7:30 p.m. -- A six-man security team from the U.S. Embassy in Tripoli arrives in Benghazi.
8:39 p.m. to 8:53 p.m. -- The National Military Command Center gives formal authorization for the deployment of the two special operations force teams from Croatia and the United States.
11:15 p.m. -- Attackers launch assault on a second U.S. facility in Benghazi. Two former U.S. Navy SEALs acting as security contractors are killed. They are identified as Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty.
September 12
12:05 a.m. -- A C-17 aircraft in Germany is told to prepare to deploy to Libya to evacuate the consulate personnel.
1:40 a.m. -- The first wave of Americans are evacuated to Tripoli via airplane.
4 a.m. -- A second group, including those killed in the attack, are flown to Tripoli.
8:15 a.m. -- The C-17 departs from Germany for the flight to Tripoli.
1:17 p.m. -- The C-17 leaves Tripoli with the American consulate personnel and the bodies of Stevens, Smith, Woods and Doherty.
1:57 p.m. -- The U.S. special operations force team based in Croatia arrives at a staging base in Italy.
2:56 p.m. -- One of the Marine anti-terrorist teams from Spain arrives in Tripoli.
3:28 p.m. -- The U.S.-based special operations force team arrives at its staging base in Italy.

On a final note, I'm willing to admit that I'm probably never going to change the opinions of anyone here, nor is anyone here likely to voice any argument that will change my opinion on this. If you want to take this as a concession, feel free to.

[Mr Bean]

While stopping the deaths of Ambassador Stevens and Mr. Smith would have been next to, if not impossible, additional forces could have been deployed in support of the security annex. And if the current news about Benghazi isn't a big deal, why didn't it come out before the election? Also we have reports of the forces on the ground at the annex being able to observe people setting up mortars to attack them.

Wait what news about Benghazi came out after the election rather than before? To my knowledge by October 15th everything we know now was out in the open and being cover 24/7 on a certain cable news channel. I'm not following your logic train since it seems your missing a few cars and the biggest one is "when we knew what" because to my memory, everything was broken before October ended and the election is in November.

[Simon_Jester]

While stopping the deaths of Ambassador Stevens and Mr. Smith would have been next to, if not impossible, additional forces could have been deployed in support of the security annex

And the logical thing for the president to do is say "good, send the reinforcements you can." Sitting up all night waiting for more news of a situation that presidential orders aren't going to change is stupid. Especially when it means the president might, by postponing sleep, end up being unfit to make decisions later the next day when his minute-by-minute reactions could actually help.

While this may be semi-apocryphal, it's a good cautionary tale: Remember how big a mistake it was for Hitler to stay up late worrying about the Eastern Front on June 5, 1944, then decide to catch up on sleep tomorrow morning!

Hammar, I've taken the liberty of changing the times to EDT - which paints the lack of action in a different light... [snip timeline]

What inaction? By the time Obama was in a position to discuss the response with anyone in a position to carry out useful orders and tell him what his options are, Stevens and Smith were already dead. Even getting a drone or a helicopter to Benghazi takes an hour or more of preparation and flight time; it's not like there was a major US military base located on the outskirts of the city or anything.

So he says "send in the Marines;" Panetta sends in the Marines. The Marines are going to take 12-18 hours to get there. Such is life. He says "send in a security detail from the embassy;" they arrive within about two hours (typical flight time, since the cities are 400 miles apart). He commands planes to ready an evacuation- that takes several hours to organize, for obvious reasons. We don't keep cargo planes on standby every moment of the day in case we MIGHT need to evacuate people on an hour's notice.

And yet these were about all the orders he could give. He could order men and weapons sent to Benghazi- but once he's given the order, deciding what can be moved and how is up to his staff and the chain of command. And actually getting them there takes hours. Which won't change just because Obama stays up all night holding military transport commanders' hands.

On a final note, I'm willing to admit that I'm probably never going to change the opinions of anyone here, nor is anyone here likely to voice any argument that will change my opinion on this. If you want to take this as a concession, feel free to.

All I ask is that you be realistic about the limits of the possible. Presidential intervention in a skirmish-sized crisis on the other side of the world is not helpful, is not necessarily 'the President doing his job,' and isn't really going to get the emergency resolved earlier.

[The Yosemite Bear]

who do they think we elected? Clark Kent, hell Superman can't even legally be president, not to go on a birther tangent, of course I guess with sci-fi movie missile defense sats we could have out done the drones with a GDI Ion cannon lock....

[weemadando]

It can pretty much come down to this:

If the chain of command is utterly reliant on the Commander in Chief to react personally and approve every order, it's pointless.

Given the speed of the events, location and available assets, what else could have been done? Sit up all night worrying?

How do you know he actually slept, rather than lying in bed thinking "what's happening there" but knowing that it would be hours before any actionable information or assets able to do anything were ready?

[Alyrium Denryle]

While stopping the deaths of Ambassador Stevens and Mr. Smith would have been next to, if not impossible, additional forces could have been deployed in support of the security annex.

From where?

Do we have US servicemen growing in vats, with information downloaded into their heads the moment they are required, ready to load themselves into transporter room 2?

The nearest people we had who were available were in Tripoli. 6 people. After that, we are talking EUROPE.

I expect the President to show up for his job, and talk with his advisers when a US Ambassador has been killed. The afternoon prior he had spent time at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center, and the next day he had a campaign event (source - Whitehouse.gov(1), (2)).

Seems to me that the president WAS doing his job. The president does not sit in the oval office with steeped fingers waiting for crises. He has shit to do. Meetings, good will appearances etc. Interrupting whatever it is the president might be doing with zero notice will, at the least, take some time. For example, he and the joint chiefs of staff might not be occupying the same physical space.

It was at ~4:30 that the information on the attack reached the joint chiefs and Secdef. They met with the president inside 30 minutes. They talked about what they needed to talk about, and then the task was delegated. That is how power works.

After that, you have to deal with the inherent response lags that occur whenever you have to organize an group of people as vast as the US military. What is Obama supposed to do? Sit in his office for hours and not be able to do anything effective? No. He has shit to do. It takes time for actionable information to reach him. The orders to send marines from Spain, special ops teams from Croatia, and the embassy detail from Tripoli had already been given. There was nothing more to do after that.

I am not a fan of the Obama Administration. I voted third party in the election on the basis of not being a fan. However, both merit and demerit should only ever be given where it is due, and not because of some ridiculous reaction that causes our knees to break own noses in their uncontrolled spasms.

[LapsedPacifist]

To some extent the criticism was always meant to demonstrate that Obama isn't perfect on foreign affairs(and therefore Romney didn't have to be, either). I just have no idea why it has continued to be as big an issue as it has.

It would have been handled differently in a Tom Clancy novel, but the world isn't a TCn either.

Tim you have seemed to be a reasonable person on things military in other posts. Really, what would you have expected to see a President do?

[SirNitram]

I thought all beings with brainstems had seen through this conspiracy theory. Obama made the executive decisions, and yes, he went to sleep. There is no little keyboard in the OO that lets him turn-base his defensive tactics.

[TheHammer]

Hammar, I've taken the liberty of changing the times to EDT - which paints the lack of action in a different light.

September 11
3:42 p.m. -- Armed men begin their assault on the U.S. Consulate.
3:59 p.m. -- A surveillance drone is directed to fly over the U.S. compound, but it is unarmed.
4:32 p.m. -- The Office of the Secretary Defense and the Joint Staff are notified of the attack by the National Military Command Center at the Pentagon. "The information is quickly passed to Secretary Panetta and General Dempsey."
5 p.m. -- Panetta and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Martin Dempsey meet with President Obama at the White House where they discuss the unfolding situation and how to respond. The meeting had been previously scheduled.
5:10 p.m. -- The surveillance drone arrives over the Benghazi facility.
5:30 p.m. -- All surviving U.S. personnel are evacuated from the consulate. U.S. Ambassador Chris Stevens and State Department computer expert Sean Smith were killed in the initial assault.
6 to 8 p.m. -- Panetta and other senior leaders discuss possible options for further violence if it were to break out. Panetta gives verbal orders for Marine anti-terrorist teams from Rota, Spain, to prepare to deploy to Tripoli and Benghazi. Panetta also orders a special operations force team training in Croatia and an additional special operations force team in the United States to prepare to deploy to a staging base in southern Italy.
7:30 p.m. -- A six-man security team from the U.S. Embassy in Tripoli arrives in Benghazi.
8:39 p.m. to 8:53 p.m. -- The National Military Command Center gives formal authorization for the deployment of the two special operations force teams from Croatia and the United States.
11:15 p.m. -- Attackers launch assault on a second U.S. facility in Benghazi. Two former U.S. Navy SEALs acting as security contractors are killed. They are identified as Tyrone Woods and Glen Doherty.
September 12
12:05 a.m. -- A C-17 aircraft in Germany is told to prepare to deploy to Libya to evacuate the consulate personnel.
1:40 a.m. -- The first wave of Americans are evacuated to Tripoli via airplane.
4 a.m. -- A second group, including those killed in the attack, are flown to Tripoli.
8:15 a.m. -- The C-17 departs from Germany for the flight to Tripoli.
1:17 p.m. -- The C-17 leaves Tripoli with the American consulate personnel and the bodies of Stevens, Smith, Woods and Doherty.
1:57 p.m. -- The U.S. special operations force team based in Croatia arrives at a staging base in Italy.
2:56 p.m. -- One of the Marine anti-terrorist teams from Spain arrives in Tripoli.
3:28 p.m. -- The U.S.-based special operations force team arrives at its staging base in Italy.

I'm curious as to why you think changing the timezone on the events has any bearing on my point. The initial battle was over less than 30 minutes after the president was briefed. This was not an "ongoing crisis" at that point. For some reason, it seems as though this gets conflated with a second attack at a second location several hours later. It's not as though this was a several hour gun battle during which time the President did nothing. It was two relatively short lived attacks. And the actions taken in the interim were completely the appropriate actions to take and show that the administration was certainly taking the situation seriously.

[chitoryu12]

Most importantly, it's not Obama's job to handle every crisis 100%. If that was the case, we wouldn't have generals or really anyone commanding the grunts except for the POTUS himself, or a Secretary of Defense, or Secretary of State, or any other Cabinet position at all. Even if the president is a former military commander, it's up to the people directly in command of the military to handle the actual war. Any smart president (Obama included) will defer to the authority of the people who are technically below him in power, but actually understand what they're talking about. Literally the only thing Obama SHOULD have done was get informed, meet with the right people and get their input (and probably agree with them, since they likely have a better handle on everything), and get the rest of his work done and go to bed at a decent hour. Having him restlessly sit in the situation room staring at laptops for hours and waiting to be told what's going on minute by minute would probably be worse than useless, since now your head of state is wasting his time getting information that he really can't act on and will be a zombie in the morning.