Voyager, Neelix and Replicators.

[Isolder74]

Something that has come up with my creation of the Plastic Chef Neelix page in the Imperial WIKI. That is the realization of how inefficient Replicators might be given the show gives us the impression that Neelix's horrible cooking methods are a viable alternative to using the replicators. Bear in mind this is the same show that seems to think that an Aeroponics Bay the size of my bedroom can somehow support 140 people (Really they'd need at least a couple of decks....). Given the level of general fail we see in the knowledge of how cooking works by the Voyager writing staff, but given suspension of disbelief we have to take what we see done on screen at face value.

The big assumption with that assessment is that Neelix is being honest with the amounts of energy he reports that he is using to the command staff of the ship. Seeing that this is a better place to analyze this issue I'm bringing it up here. Namely, how much can we actually trust Neelix's honesty? What does this mean in regards the efficiency of Replicators in star Trek?

[Flagg]

Or maybe cooking is just a luxury in the Federation that the crew felt was needed being so far away from home? I mean we see Ben Sisko's father running an entire restraunt using at least some (if not all) fresh ingredients.

[Sleck]

I think that it was (and I may be wrong) replicators can't perfectly reproduce stuff at the quantum level - this is why they can't be used for cloning. For the same reason, replicated food doesn't taste great which is why Qwark's, Sisko's dad e.t.c. are in business - real food is a luxury item.

[Isolder74]

The problem with that is that we see Neelix constantly having to be very heavy handed in his methods to enforce his position as the only cook on board the ship.

No one likes his cooking, yet they still tolerate him still running his kitchen his way. With Sisko's dad his food is generally well liked and you never hear any complaints. Neelix on the otherhand can't seem to do ANYTHING right.

[Sleck]

Oh, with Neelix it was supposedly to conserve replicator power - not that anyone ever mentions power problems apart from a few early episodes. After that I assumed that it was a hobby he kept up when he wasn't busy being an ambassador or a shithead.

[Alyeska]

I think that it was (and I may be wrong) replicators can't perfectly reproduce stuff at the quantum level - this is why they can't be used for cloning. For the same reason, replicated food doesn't taste great which is why Qwark's, Sisko's dad e.t.c. are in business - real food is a luxury item.

Quark doesn't cook food. It comes from a replicator.

I suspect there is a qualify difference between a Federation starship replicator, and a "business replicator". Business class almost certainly is more expensive to run and maintain to reach acceptable quality levels. On a starship, cheaper replicators would be used, or perhaps the replicator "slurry" that all the material sources from is deliberately cheaper and easier to manufacture.

Today militaries don't exactly serve gourmet food for troops in the field or deployed.

So in Voyagers case, they kept the easier to manufacture slurry (ie Replicator Rations) in their replicators and it was simply easier to scan for edible food sources and grow some of their own than produce higher quality replicator resources that someone like Quark might use.

[PeZook]

I can't remember, but was Neelix important at all? If his knowledge of the quadrant helped/saved the ship/etc. they probably let him cook so that he wouldn't get his panties in a bunch and leave.

Since, you know, if he wasn't that important to the survival of the ship, one would think that even with a completely inept CO who couldn't get him to shape up, eventually a possee would just get together and beat him to a pulp in some darkened side corridor...and then have him replaced with basically anybody else who's not an idiot and can follow a recipe.

[Isolder74]

Nope he was not important at all other then being the show's creator's pet character. B & B were convinced that the audience was going to love him. This is why no matter what happened in the show they never got rid of him until they got to the end of the series.

But as far as we see in the show there is no reason they keep tolerating him on board.

[PeZook]

Okay, I will have to rewatch Voyager because you awakened my fetish for terrible things. If he wasn't important, I really have to wonder why Janeway tolerated his "Oh no captain you can't have replicator coffee!", instead of telling him to fuck off. Maybe she was an inept CO with no authority

[Isolder74]

Okay, I will have to rewatch Voyager because you awakened my fetish for terrible things. If he wasn't important, I really have to wonder why Janeway tolerated his "Oh no captain you can't have replicator coffee!", instead of telling him to fuck off. Maybe she was an inept CO with no authority

What makes it more groan worthy is that was only a week at the most since he started running his little mess hall (one episode) and he'd barely even had been on the ship. She did use whatever excuse she could to rush away to avoid even looking at that cup of roofing tar. I think she use the replicator in her ready room as soon as she had a chance.....but yes she and the crew constantly tolerates him when even an US Navy ship would have tossed him off or left him the job of swabbing the deck.

Edit: I do note that she never let him pull that with her again so...

[PeZook]

A CO with any authority would've told him he's a terrible cook and to shape up or else - otherwise the crew will start snickering behind her back and eventually take matters into their own hands, which is bad for discipline.

[Crazedwraith]

Well when Neelix is away, we see that the rest of the crew in fact do an even worse job at it than he does iirc.

[Isolder74]

Well when Neelix is away, we see that the rest of the crew in fact do an even worse job at it than he does iirc.

That happened at least once on the Episode Tuvix the goal being to play up how much Neelix is needed after he's merged with Tuvok. Of course on that instance it was 'extra man' who couldn't do a better job then Neelix.

On a more serious note, we have seen Seven do a half-decent and Tom Paris as well. Even Tuvok has shown that he is fairly competent at the job of cooking.

So why the Captain tolerates him as chef is a big question mark. Does he seriously provide a better option then using the replicator or is he just a lying jackass? Does she look at his power use reports and nothing else? It is obvious she doesn't eat his food when we see her meals with Chakotay in her ready room.

[PeZook]

It's not an esoteric technical skill. Cooking well for 140 people isn't easy, but cooking better than Neelix should be something that anyone who's not an idiot should be able to learn. I wonder how much Extra Man's failure was lack of skill and how much was the terrible ergonomics of the mess hall?

EDIT: Also, I really hope a hi-tech space warship is able to track energy use by compartment automatically, rather than relying on crew reports

[Isolder74]

That is a good question. (especially given the hotplates that would work comfortably Neelix has junk stacked on top of ) It's fairly obvious that Neelix's kitchen is a nightmare, I'd have trouble doing anything on those burners, so your theory does have a good level of credence.

Edit: In fact me taking over his kitchen would have it closed until I've moved those Damn things!

[PeZook]

Maybe Neelix is pulling a Wally: setting himself up as irrepleaceable because he's the only one who knows how to work the (esoteric and purposefully obfuscated, yet critical) hardware.

[Isolder74]

Come to think of it are there any heat level controls on those things at all?

[PeZook]

No, they're set up to be deadly if used by anybody who doesn't know EXACTLY how they work!

[Isolder74]

Yet there are at least a pair of perfectly normal burners no one is using......



PS He's standing in front of the other one, that capture turned out worse, curse my old computer.....

[PeZook]

Give me the episode name and number and maybe I can get a better screenie

But yeah, maybe the kitchen was set up according to all the arts and then was "improved" by Neelix to be extremely dangerous and unusuable by anybody else

[FaxModem1]

Heh, I actually used to own that cookbook. There was also the episode 'Mortail Coil', which showed that Neelix was constantly leaving his kitchen to tuck Naomi in for bed and other minor duties. Of course, he has no back up to take over, as that might mean that lunch won't be stopped.

[Isolder74]

Considering the number of times he's left his kitchen unattended with stuff on the burners It's a wonder he hasn't burned the mess hall down.

[bilateralrope]

Why did he use flames to cook the food ?

Where did the flammable gas come from ?

[Isolder74]

Why did he use flames to cook the food ?

Because it looks good on camera.

Where did the flammable gas come from ?

Supposedly the array draws energy from the ship and converts it into a gas that then powers his burners, or something like that.

[PeZook]

It would make plenty of sense if they used kitchen burners because they let them burn methane (one of the most common organic substances in the universe) to prepare food, rather than burning antimatter.