Des Moines PD clears officers of premeditated dog-slaying.

[Alyrium Denryle]

http://mynorthwest.com/11/2139096/Des-M ... eloved-dog

A bit old (November, but the lawsuit is ongoing and I intend to keep up with it), but I think it illustrates a very real problem. Namely, that at least some police departments will literally clear officers of wrongdoing for anything, irrespective of what evidence says.

A Des Moines couple is now suing police for shooting their beloved dog after it got out of their yard.
A neighbor called police when Rosie, a 4-year-old Newfoundland, was seen wandering loose while her owners Deirdre and Charles Wright were out of town in Nov. 2010. They were concerned the dog might get hurt.

Three Des Moines officers responded and encountered the 115-pound dog barking in the Wright's driveway. But she wouldn't let the police get close. She ran, and for the next hour, police chased her for blocks, twice trying to subdue her with a Taser. They ultimately cornered her in a neighbor's yard and shot her four times with an assault rifle.

Audio of the entire incident obtained by The Seattle Times was captured on a dashboard camera. Officers can be heard debating what to do when they capture the dog. One suggested using a Taser. Another suggested "choking her out."

But the audio reveals officers began talking about shooting Rosie within 10 minutes of their arrival. "I'll shoot him. Let's just go shoot him," an officer is heard in the recording.

The shooting sparked massive outrage in the community. Thousands have signed an online petition demanding the officers be punished. There have been a number of memorials and a vigil for Rosie and her family.

A lawyer for the city says the Des Moines Police Department conducted a thorough internal review of the shooting and determined the officers acted appropriately. Two other reviews reached similar conclusions.

But the Wrights are now suing the city, filing a federal lawsuit Nov. 17. Adam Karp, a Bellingham laywer for the couple, told Ross and Burbank officers were intent on shooting the dog from the outset and made no effort to contact them. He alleged police acted inhumanely when they killed her.

"It's my opinion they engaged in criminal misconduct and certainly violated the civil rights of my client," Karp said.

Witnesses said the dog was "just sitting there" in the Wright's driveway when one of the officers used the Taser, sending the dog running.

Neighbor Lora Perry told the Times Rosie had slipped into her fenced yard and was "just sniffing around" when police arrived.

"It was clear they were there to shoot her. She wasn't doing anything. She was just sitting there," she said.

"The only defenses that might exist that warrant the shooting or maiming of an animal is if there's an imminent threat of legitimate harm to a person or animal," Karp said. "And the evidence really is undisputed that at the time they discharged the rifle, she wasn't threatening, barking growling."

Ron Weber, a former police officer and criminal science expert, questioned the officers' actions in an interview with KIRO Radio.

"What really got me was the fact the dog was contained, wasn't really posing a threat. And it sounded like the homeowner was okay with the dog being in their backyard for the time being, which would actually give you time to formulate a plan and figure out what to do."

Karp said police and the city have made no effort to settle the case and there's been no apology from police.

"I do know that the police guild got into a bit of a snit with the mayor who showed support for the Wrights at a vigil that occurred shortly after her killing. So apparently there's a split really between the departments and the agency heads over how to deal with this properly," he said.

In addition to seeking damages for his clients, Karp said he hopes the federal suit will also lead to changes in training for police on how to deal with dogs.

Ok. It is official.

Known Fact 1: The officers were overheard by neighbors and on their own dashcams planning to kill the dog from the outset.

Known Fact 2: The dog did not in fact snarl or snap at anyone, not even after being electrocuted while sitting in her own driveway

Known Fact 3: The dog was contained within a fenced yard at the time of the shooting.

From this evidence can we thus conclude that the police were justified in turning her organs to swiss cheese? I dont think so.

So, rather than simply railing against the police for a while and venting frustration, what are possible solutions? I dont think training officers is really sufficient in this case. They shot this dog out of malice, you cannot train away naked sadism. Reform of Internal Affairs? No... that wont work. There will always be that conflict of interest born from the Blue Wall.

I am thinking a separate arm from the police force. An actual state agency with its own subpoena power and its own institutions that is tasked with investigating police shootings and allegations of misconduct.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I am thinking a separate arm from the police force. An actual state agency with its own subpoena power and its own institutions that is tasked with investigating police shootings and allegations of misconduct.

I agree. Too many police forces have shown again and again that they are unable or unwilling to police themselves. So that means the alternative, someone from outside.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I would suggest the creation of a "Federal Civil Rights Police" whose sole job is to investigate violations of federal civil rights law by all other police agencies in the USA, with no other remit.

[aerius]

What you have is a culture and society problem.
Trying to fix it by creating new agencies & laws will work about as well as the TSA or the war on drugs.

[Flagg]

I tend to agree with aerius. I mean what's to stop the new agency from being just another rubber stamp?

[Alyrium Denryle]

I tend to agree with aerius. I mean what's to stop the new agency from being just another rubber stamp?

Lack of conflict of interest. The blue wall exists for the same reason that marines think all marines are superior to all the other armed forces (and all the other armed service branches think they are superior etc). In-group thinking and strong interpersonal bonds formed just by putting on the same departmental uniform.

If you have some outside agency not otherwise connected to that department you dont have that problem.

[Aaron MkII]

Except it's created in the current culture, likely will be staffed by people who are part of the current culture and trained by it.

[Zaune]

I hate to say it, but you know what I think it'll take before we see an end to crap like this in the US? A judge ruling that some poor bastard who got pulled over for Driving While Black, panicked and put a couple of bullets into a police officer was acting in self-defence.

[Grumman]

I hate to say it, but you know what I think it'll take before we see an end to crap like this in the US? A judge ruling that some poor bastard who got pulled over for Driving While Black, panicked and put a couple of bullets into a police officer was acting in self-defence.

I've said a similar thing in the past about no-knock warrants, but I think applying the same logic to being pulled over is a bit too far.

[Meest]

Is calling animal control or something similar not normal procedure for something like this, unless it's eating children or biting adults why would they even consider force at all. Would think they would want to return or save the dog as the first priority, unless the neighbours call made the dog to sound dangerous. Des Moines isn't that small but sounded like multiple officers responded to a loose dog call and were aggressive, are they that bored in that town. Guess I'll remember to try the fire department next time I see a loose dog.

[TheFeniX]

It's unfortunate that the couple left their dog unattended while out of town. Even if the dog is used to being left outside with food and water for days, situations like this occur and it's their responsibility to ensure any animal they own isn't running about the neighborhood.

It's also unfortunate a neighbor called police for a non-aggressive dog rather than doing something about it themselves or calling animal control. I have to say, I just don't understand the mind-set of a person who would shoot an animal in that situation. Then again, cops seems really terrible at just letting shit go, even when there's no inherent danger. Unless no one was paying attention after the cops were called, I can't think of any good reason someone didn't step in and point out the insanity when they saw the officers approaching the dog with a drawn rifle. I know I'd have more than a few words to say to officers in that instance. Even if I had to end up in the back of a cruiser, I'd consider it a win if it stopped that kind of insanity.

Guess I'll remember to try the fire department next time I see a loose dog.

It's very easy to determine if a dog is aggressive if you know what to look for. If it's non-aggressive, handle it yourself. Drag them into your garage or whatever and call animal control. Works for me.

[Grumman]

Unless no one was paying attention after the cops were called, I can't think of any good reason someone didn't step in and point out the insanity when they saw the officers approaching the dog with a drawn rifle. I know I'd have more than a few words to say to officers in that instance. Even if I had to end up in the back of a cruiser, I'd consider it a win if it stopped that kind of insanity.

Maybe they didn't want to confront the insane people wielding assault rifles?

[Kamakazie Sith]

So, rather than simply railing against the police for a while and venting frustration, what are possible solutions? I dont think training officers is really sufficient in this case. They shot this dog out of malice, you cannot train away naked sadism. Reform of Internal Affairs? No... that wont work. There will always be that conflict of interest born from the Blue Wall.

I am thinking a separate arm from the police force. An actual state agency with its own subpoena power and its own institutions that is tasked with investigating police shootings and allegations of misconduct.

Many cities, counties, etc do have their own civilian review board. These boards need to be refined so that they are truly independent and have final authority.

I hate to say it, but you know what I think it'll take before we see an end to crap like this in the US? A judge ruling that some poor bastard who got pulled over for Driving While Black, panicked and put a couple of bullets into a police officer was acting in self-defence.

Since being pulled over even for "Driving while black" doesn't equate to a deadly situation I find this highly unreasonable. Besides, "panic" should never be a valid reason to shoot someone.

Indiana did take some notable steps towards acknowledging self defense against a police officer.

Source

Rutherford pointed out that the word "reasonable" appears throughout the revision to the Indiana law. "That's important. The amount of force you use must be reasonable," he said. "So if a police officer pokes his head inside your screen door because he heard something suspicious, no, you don't now have free rein to shoot him."

Indiana residents must (a) reasonably believe the public servant is attempting to enter their home illegally and (b) use no more force than is reasonably necessary to dispel the threat to their lives or property.

So Hoosiers can't use any force if the public servant isn't a threat and can't use lethal force unless there's good reason to believe the intruding police officer presents an immediate and significant threat to the safety of those inside.

Moreover, an Indiana resident's mere assertion that he shot a police officer because he thought the cop had entered his home illegally and presented a threat doesn't necessarily get him off the hook. If a prosecutor thinks the homeowner acted unreasonably, he or she can still press charges. And if members of a jury then determine that that the homeowner's assessment of the threat wasn't reasonable, they can still convict him.

Additionally, the new amendment still bars a Castle Doctrine defense if the homeowner is in the act of committing or escaping from a crime, provoked a police officer into using force or should have known the police officer was acting legally.

[Kamakazie Sith]

Is calling animal control or something similar not normal procedure for something like this, unless it's eating children or biting adults why would they even consider force at all. Would think they would want to return or save the dog as the first priority, unless the neighbours call made the dog to sound dangerous. Des Moines isn't that small but sounded like multiple officers responded to a loose dog call and were aggressive, are they that bored in that town. Guess I'll remember to try the fire department next time I see a loose dog.

Depends on the policies of each agency and the man power. If animal control doesn't have enough people out then police will be sent or police/deputies can be crossed trained to deal with animals.

On the dash cam one officer is preparing a catch and release pole so it seems like they are suppose to handle these types of situations. However, another part of the dash cam captures an officer saying something like "When we catch it. What do we do with it?" which brings that into doubt.

[Lord of the Abyss]

I have to say, I just don't understand the mind-set of a person who would shoot an animal in that situation.

Some police just like to shoot things whenever they have an excuse, judging from their behavior. There's "police enter home on a warrant, shoot the family dog" stories on a fairly regular basis.

[Lagmonster]

I think everyone involved is a dick.

The owners were dicks for abandoning an animal, unsecured. It could as easily have been run over by a car or injured by another animal. Unless the animal somehow broke out, the risks the owners took were unacceptable and irresponsible to begin with.

The neighbours were dicks for calling the police instead of the humane society or city animal control, either of which would have been in a better position to help. In my town, the police won't even respond to animal calls unless it's a raging bull moose or something; the city has its own animal response unit within bylaw enforcement. Surely larger American cities are no different?

And the police were just dicks for every part of their plan after they failed to say "this thing isn't our problem/a threat. Let's call the Humane Society/Animal Control to come pick it up." It's literally a case where law enforcement apathy would have been a superior response.

[RogueIce]

They do have Animal Control though it's apparently part of the police department.

So why they dispatched POs instead of an ACO I don't know. Either dispatch messed up, there were no available ACOs (or there's only one on duty and he or she was otherwise occupied), or somehow the intial caller gave the impression the dog was dangerous. Wonder if that call was recorded and if it's available somewhere.

[Silver Jedi]

A quick google search (which is probably what the neighbor did) reveals that the Des Moines PD actually is the correct number to call for animal control. Looks like the neighbor did exactly what they were supposed to.
So, the responding officers should have been trained to deal with this kind of thing... which brings us back to the polices were trigger-happy dicks theory.

Edit: damn, RougeIce beat me to it

[Alyrium Denryle]

The owners were dicks for abandoning an animal, unsecured. It could as easily have been run over by a car or injured by another animal. Unless the animal somehow broke out, the risks the owners took were unacceptable and irresponsible to begin with.

Say I make a weekend trip to a lake or something that is not dog friendly (I dont have the info on where the family was, but that seems reasonable). The dog has food and water, some chew toys. Should be fine. However, if a 115 lb Newfoundland wants out of a place, it can get out. You have to balance the risk of the dog getting out with the animal's comfort. You could put the dog in a crate, but that would not be a thing to do. Typically, someone would dog sit, or come by and say hello every now and again. That is the standard for dogs when on vacation really, but even then a dog sitter wont be in all the time most likely.

But... 115 lb Newfoundland. If it gets bored, or is just feeling uncharacteristically up to mischief that day, there is not much other than a solid brick wall that can keep the animal inside, and it would need to have a deep foundation. This is a dog strong enough to pull a fishing boat, haul in gill nets full of fish, and rescue Napoleon from drowning in heavy seas by holding him above water by main force.

[Gil Hamilton]

I think everyone involved is a dick.

The owners were dicks for abandoning an animal, unsecured. It could as easily have been run over by a car or injured by another animal. Unless the animal somehow broke out, the risks the owners took were unacceptable and irresponsible to begin with.

Not really. Dogs have a funny way of getting out despite your best efforts.

For example, I had an Australian Cattle Dog who could slip any collar you put on him (largely due to the breed having huge thick necks). If he was in the backyard and the line he was secured to got tangled around a tree, he'd usually get free by popping his collar off and needless to say, a four foot gate isn't THAT big a barrier to a Blue Heeler if he wanted to then leave the yard.

One time, the above event I described happened and he wandered around to our front porch to sit on. I heard a "ker-woof" from outside ("ker-woof" is about the sound most dog owners recognize as a perfunctory bark of "I see someone walking by") and duly bring him in, then get his collar. About thirty minutes later, there are two police officers at my door, informing me that a somewhat hysterical woman claiming there was a wild dog on the loose and it was intimidating her when she walked by, which is interesting because in the ten seconds between me hearing the "ker-woof" and looking out the window, I don't think Joey actually bothered to stand up. Funnily enough, the woman was standing on the curb outside of my house, still hysterical and I guess was still hanging out to see justice done on the vicious hellbeast who was too lazy to stand up when he barked at her.

Fortunately, the police were more annoyed with her than with me and nothing came of it once I demonstrated that my dog's tags were all up to date (which I'm pretty sure they are required to check). However, I'm kind of glad that I happened to be by the front door to hear him and that the police who came had some common sense rather than the ones in the OP.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I had a situation in unincorporated but suburban development Clark County, Washington, about two years ago; there were two pitbulls running around uncontrollably in the neighbourhood. They were hiding in my garage because I'd managed to forget to close the garage door that day. They turned out to be the nicest things on the planet, if neurotic and uncontrollable. Well fed, probably brother and sister from the same litter, they were clearly abandoned too, which was unpleasant. And freshly so. So, we got them into the fenced back yard of the house I was in at the time, and called Animal Control to pick them up. Animal Control answered that they wouldn't be available until maybe very late that day.

The dogs got loose though from a damaged part of the fence. We managed to get them back to the house and get them in the backyard, this time tying them up for their own safety, because there was now another problem: A man with a pistol had emerged from one house and was waving it around in the street, demanding to know where the dogs were that had tried to "kill his wife" as the elderly couple next to us egged him on because they had leapt onto their porch before. More to the point, he pointed it directly at one of my roommates while shouting.

Ironically, the county sheriff then showed up because one of the people freaking out about the dog had called him. He walked back to our yard, saw the dogs tied up and peaceful, heard Animal control was already coming, and laughed about it. And then went across the street and very nearly arrested the guy with the pistol and no discipline on barrel sweeping people.

I generally find county sheriffs to be much more sensible people than city police, no offence to anyone around; I'm a country girl so I know I'm biased about these kinds of things, but it just seems to me that they're much more easygoing people because they know that reinforcement is 30 minutes away and everyone is armed, and their main objective is to keep the community safe through collective effort with the people living in it, not to do a thunder run through it. Which most city police don't think in terms up, but I think the LAPD damn well might.

[TheFeniX]

Not really. Dogs have a funny way of getting out despite your best efforts.

Our Golden Retriever learned to setup her leather leash so she could bite through it in one go, even when being walked. As a Golden, she's about as deadly to people as stuffed animals. That doesn't change the fact it was our responsibility to understand this and react accordingly (by using a chain leash). Animal owners have a legal and ethical obligation to ensure their animals don't get out into the public. Even if they aren't directly dangerous, they can cause issues such as traffic accidents or can affect local wildlife (which is one reason I can't stand cat owners who let their murder-machines patrol the neighborhood freely).

For example, I had an Australian Cattle Dog who could slip any collar you put on him (largely due to the breed having huge thick necks).

That's not "best efforts." They sell multiple safe versions of "everyday harnesses" as opposed to the more secure ones that you shouldn't leave on your dog when unsupervised. As much as I loathe shock collars and the "invisible fence" variants, some dogs need that kind of securing.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Our Golden Retriever learned to setup her leather leash so she could bite through it in one go, even when being walked. As a Golden, she's about as deadly to people as stuffed animals.

Heh. That is what gets me. Whenever officers kill a retriever because it was "dangerous", I have to ask "wait, this is a retriever? The dog breed known to be absolutely useless for anything that involves hurting something bigger than a pigeon, and you want me to believe it tried to bite you? No"

Newfoundlands (the dog in the OP) are even more harmless. They are HUGE, but they are literally the most laid back and not-aggressive dog breed in existence.

Animal owners have a legal and ethical obligation to ensure their animals don't get out into the public.

Yeah, but there is always the fact that dogs are probably self aware. They are curious, they get bored, they might hear a sprinkler going down the street and feel the need for a shower etc. Even with a dog sitter doing periodic check-ups, the dog may decide to do something that is not typical. Something that, if the human (I dont like using the term owner, I dont accept the notion that dogs are actually property) does not expect, there is no way to prepare for.

For example, growing up I had a Shar Pei who was a bit of an escape artist. He could open unlocked doors and muzzle windows open. All he wanted to do was go outside and patrol the area he considered his and then come back in half an hour or so, but we took precautions. We had entry and exit procedures (so he could not slip out through your legs), locking doors and windows etc and he still occasionally managed to get out sometimes. Hell, one time he managed to flip the lock on my bedroom window, open said window and then leap from the second story down to the lawn.

If that sort of behavior is not normal for a dog, it will not have occurred to the human to put such mechanisms in place. If the dog decides it wants to go exploring... well... even a 1.5 meter cinder block wall wont stop a newfoundland who is bound and determined to bask in the glory of the neighbor's sprinkler. Chain-link or picket fence? Hell no.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Not to mention, for all we know the dog got out because of a dog-sitter not properly re-closing a door or window somewhere, as opposed to anything the "owners" did/did not do. We don't have nearly enough information about that to know for sure, one way or the other, what the "owners" may have done wrong, if they indeed did anything.

(Put "owners" in quotes for Aly)

[Irbis]

Looks like case was closed out of court.

For comparison, looking at USA death reparations, one Rosie is worth up to 11.5 dronized Afghani civilians.