GUNS GUNS GERNS

[Alyeska]

Taking a gun safety class this Sunday. Its for my CCW qualifications, but also because I felt it would be good to re-certify on the safety side. I previously took a NRA certified safety course back in college, but that was over 10 years ago.

[Lonestar]

Sweet. What's your carry going to be?


So, I guess the only place in the universe to buy ammo at the moment is(surprise surprise) the range at the NRA HQ. Butthead in front of me bought the max ration of all the different ammo, then didn't rent a lane.

Also, I didn't load one of my Garand clips properly, so when I couldn't just push it in(like an idiot) I slammed it in...and marred the immaculate receiver with copper from the bullet jacket.

[Alyeska]

Glock-26 with a waistband holster in the small of my back.

I also have some Maxpedition packs which I carry my Springfield XD9 with.

[Alyeska]

When it comes to 40 cal pistols, I am well and truly a horrible shot. Everyone else in the class had better groups than me. Even the woman with a DAO revolver.

Learned some new things. The slide stop shouldn't be used as a slide release because it wears out the metal on certain guns (1911s in particular). Also, do not wrist flip to close a revolver.

[Lonestar]

/r/nova (reddit's sub for Northern Virginia) had 80 people show up for a meet at the NRA HQ range tonight. It was a freakin' madhouse. I did get to shoot a ACR, SCAR, and XCR though. Someone had a little ruger snubnose revolver in .357 that kicked like nothing else.

Everyone in my lane and the lanes adjacent wanted to shoot my Garand

[Sea Skimmer]

So in response to the threat of today's modern super animals, the ATF is considering allowing we american patriots depleted uranium ammo for hunting.

[Tsyroc]

So in response to the threat of today's modern super animals, the ATF is considering allowing we american patriots depleted uranium ammo for hunting.

I'm pretty sure I'd rather not eat anything that had depleted uranium in it. It makes me think of spitting out pellets from birds that my dad shot and how that was so much fun. Now just picture spitting out, or cracking a tooth on, some depleted uranium slugs.

Am I reading the article correctly? It's about someone requesting that certain armor piercing materials and materials used in the cores of armor piercing bullets be excepted from ATF regulation? I don't know of any sort of hunting that can't be done with what's already legal so why would anyone want to put more armor piercing rounds into circulation.

[Tsyroc]

/r/nova (reddit's sub for Northern Virginia) had 80 people show up for a meet at the NRA HQ range tonight. It was a freakin' madhouse. I did get to shoot a ACR, SCAR, and XCR though. Someone had a little ruger snubnose revolver in .357 that kicked like nothing else.

Everyone in my lane and the lanes adjacent wanted to shoot my Garand

Did you make them load it themselves? Part of the experience is getting your hand pinched when you load the thing.

[Formless]

I'm pretty sure I'd rather not eat anything that had depleted uranium in it. It makes me think of spitting out pellets from birds that my dad shot and how that was so much fun. Now just picture spitting out, or cracking a tooth on, some depleted uranium slugs.

Am I reading the article correctly? It's about someone requesting that certain armor piercing materials and materials used in the cores of armor piercing bullets be excepted from ATF regulation? I don't know of any sort of hunting that can't be done with what's already legal so why would anyone want to put more armor piercing rounds into circulation.

Forget the ATF, the department of Fish and Wildlife would never allow DU for waterfoul for the same reasons lead is no longer permitted for the same-- its an environmental toxin that would damage wildlife even after hunting season is over. Besides, the price of DU would almost certainly be enormous compared to steel, tungsten, or even bismuth-tin shot. So I doubt there is any argument for "sporting use" to be found with DU, whereas steel and tungsten are already the most common shot alternatives for waterfoul.

Likewise for hunting big game, armor penetrating bullets are completely inappropriate for the purpose. In most states, its actually illegal to use ammunition that doesn't expand or deform on impact when hunting major game animals. You want to kill the animal humanely, and steel darts that punch a hole through and through the hide don't cut it. So again, the ATF isn't the one who decides sporting uses for ammunition. That's the Department of Fish and Wildlife's territory.

[Aaron MkII]

It's not going to do your barrel much good either.

[TheFeniX]

When it comes to 40 cal pistols, I am well and truly a horrible shot. Everyone else in the class had better groups than me. Even the woman with a DAO revolver.

Some people swear by the .40, but I've found the load is way to hot and causes inconsistent recoil making lining up your next shot kind of a craps shoot. Out of any round other than the .22LR in pistols, the .40 cal has seen the most malfunctions or just generally weird shit and I'm talking about the brand-name rounds, not reloads or anything of that sort.

Unless you're stuck using FMJs, Hollow-points have just come so far over the years making the 9mm a better choice. And if you really want the bigger load, there's dozens of hi-cap .45ACPs out there now. I've never held a 9mm or .45 I couldn't drill bulls-eyes with all day long. With .40cal, it isn't just the recoil (which is pretty high considering the round size and gun frame), it's that I can never know exactly where the gun is going to go after pulling the trigger. Meanwhile, my M&P9 and PX4 9mm are almost video-game animation consistency when it comes to their recoil and reset.

The difference in my consistency after I swapped my .40cal SAXD barrel for a 9mm was staggering. I will never own another .40cal gun.

The slide stop shouldn't be used as a slide release because it wears out the metal on certain guns (1911s in particular).

I've used my Colt 1911 in this manner since I bought it over a decade ago choosing only to use the slide grip to load a round if I'm doing so after a malfunction (tap > rack). My slide release is fine and even if it did go out, it's like a 5 dollar part. Even better on a 1911 because if you can take the gun apart, you can replace the slide-release.

Also, do not wrist flip to close a revolver.

If the reason is "the cylinder might not line up," then yes. If it's because "it could damage the gun" then no. It's just not any faster than pushing it in manually since you should be slightly rolling your fingers over the cylinder to make sure it's locked into place.

[Alyeska]

Some people swear by the .40, but I've found the load is way to hot and causes inconsistent recoil making lining up your next shot kind of a craps shoot. Out of any round other than the .22LR in pistols, the .40 cal has seen the most malfunctions or just generally weird shit and I'm talking about the brand-name rounds, not reloads or anything of that sort.

I love my Glock 22. Normally I'm a pretty decent shot at the rapid fire at 25 feet. Yesterday I had the deck stacked against me.

I brought my Springfield XDm 40, I had never shot this one before. I was last to shoot. So I pysched myself up thinking I had to shoot better than anyone else. It was below freezing and I was coldest when firing compared to everyone else. The instructor had me modify my grip in a manner I had never shot before. My first three aimed shots at the black target were more accurate than anyone else. But my last two were way low and to the left (by several feet).

The silhouette I did worse one but still hit center body mass. I should have just gone for rapid fire like I normally do. It was only 7 yards.

Unless you're stuck using FMJs, Hollow-points have just come so far over the years making the 9mm a better choice. And if you really want the bigger load, there's dozens of hi-cap .45ACPs out there now. I've never held a 9mm or .45 I couldn't drill bulls-eyes with all day long. With .40cal, it isn't just the recoil (which is pretty high considering the round size and gun frame), it's that I can never know exactly where the gun is going to go after pulling the trigger. Meanwhile, my M&P9 and PX4 9mm are almost video-game animation consistency when it comes to their recoil and reset.

Oh, I don't disagree. I love 9mm guns. I have a Beretta Px4 Storm (model f), 92FS, Glock 26, and Springfield XD9. I have self defense loads in the 92FS and XD9. One magazine hollow point, one frangible, for both guns. I also have a FNP 45. The recoil is surprisingly light, but given the size thats why.

The difference in my consistency after I swapped my .40cal SAXD barrel for a 9mm was staggering. I will never own another .40cal gun.

40s should always be full frame pistols. Even the XD40 is smaller on a 4 inch barrel and only 12 round capacity. My two 40s are a Glock 22 and XDm 40. Both are 4.5" barrels. I just need to practice rapid fire delivery with them. They won't be my target shooters.

I've used my Colt 1911 in this manner since I bought it over a decade ago choosing only to use the slide grip to load a round if I'm doing so after a malfunction (tap > rack). My slide release is fine and even if it did go out, it's like a 5 dollar part. Even better on a 1911 because if you can take the gun apart, you can replace the slide-release.

My instructor pointed out that it wears out both the slide stop, and the slide notch itself. If the slide gets worn out, thats more trouble.

If the reason is "the cylinder might not line up," then yes. If it's because "it could damage the gun" then no. It's just not any faster than pushing it in manually since you should be slightly rolling your fingers over the cylinder to make sure it's locked into place.

I had fun with my Ruger GP100 and noticed some weird wear on the cylinder where they are supposed to lock in.

[Sea Skimmer]

Forget the ATF, the department of Fish and Wildlife would never allow DU for waterfoul for the same reasons lead is no longer permitted for the same-- its an environmental toxin that would damage wildlife even after hunting season is over. Besides, the price of DU would almost certainly be enormous compared to steel, tungsten, or even bismuth-tin shot. So I doubt there is any argument for "sporting use" to be found with DU, whereas steel and tungsten are already the most common shot alternatives for waterfoul.

You know tungsten is highly toxic too right? It’s also almost certainly carcinogenic when turned into aerosol (as occurs from hitting metal armor) according to research in the last decade. But none of that really matters shooting wildlife because the stuff won’t be turned into flaming aerosol like it is when it hits a tank at 1,600mps or explodes out of a DIME type bomb. Meanwhile both tungsten and DU don’t leech into the ground as badly as lead does. That’s why it’s being given the chance at all, it’s actually being proposed for this long ago. Its just nobody cared at all about lead ammo ect.

As for cost, the cost would be very high, except that the US government is already paying to convert several hundred thousand tons of uranium hexafluoride we have into stable yellowcake which it wishes to sell off to be rid of it. Yellow cake is much cheaper to turn into a usable uranium metal then the hexafluoride form that comes out of the enrichment plants. Also a fair bit of the cost of military DU ammo came from the alloying required to make good sabot alloys and then precision machining. You don’t need that here, just make it metal. It’s not like tungsten rounds are cheap either.

Likewise for hunting big game, armor penetrating bullets are completely inappropriate for the purpose. In most states, its actually illegal to use ammunition that doesn't expand or deform on impact when hunting major game animals. You want to kill the animal humanely, and steel darts that punch a hole through and through the hide don't cut it. So again, the ATF isn't the one who decides sporting uses for ammunition. That's the Department of Fish and Wildlife's territory.

Wrong way around actually. The ATF must approve the ammunition for sporting use first, then Fish and Wildlife can decide if they want to let you use it or not on federal land or for federally regulated migratory birds. Most hunting ammo standards are set by the individual state fish and wildlife departments, not the federal government. If the ATF does not approve the ammo then nobodies Fish and Wildlife service ever matters. They are the only ones with the power to make a bullet blanket illegal to even sell in the US.

Lots of special hunting rounds will shred soft body armor. You don’t have to design ammunition like a dart to pierce steel vehicles to create a round that becomes highly capable against Kevlar. That’s why brass ect… are also on the list as being of concern, anything strong then lead rapidly becomes a problem. You already noticed and mentioned tungsten is being used as hunting ammunition in select instances, and its properties are very, very similar to DU against homogenous steel armor. It’s only with spaced armors that DU suddenly becomes superior. Against Kevlar either one is immensely effective.

I kind of doubt they’ll approve much use of it anyway, but it did not reach this point of consideration via pure nonsense.

It's not going to do your barrel much good either.

Copper jacket the round or shot and it should be okay; most rounds would want to be some kind of composite construction anyway to control weight vs ballistic form. Tungsten is harder in its native forum then native uranium as I recall, both have relatively large amounts of alloying materials in them for anti tank use.

[Formless]

You know tungsten is highly toxic too right? It’s also almost certainly carcinogenic when turned into aerosol (as occurs from hitting metal armor) according to research in the last decade. But none of that really matters shooting wildlife because the stuff won’t be turned into flaming aerosol like it is when it hits a tank at 1,600mps or explodes out of a DIME type bomb. Meanwhile both tungsten and DU don’t leech into the ground as badly as lead does. That’s why it’s being given the chance at all, it’s actually being proposed for this long ago. Its just nobody cared at all about lead ammo ect.

Actually, a major environmental concern that got lead banned from waterfoul hunting wasn't that it leeched into the soil, its that certain endangered birds, especially hawks, would swallow the pellets along with other sand that gets used in the gizzard to digest their food. Tungsten obviously doesn't create that many problems for the reason you named, while steel shot preforms badly and creates problems when it rusts. DU would probably have the same problem, and politically it has that scare factor that rust does not. So I doubt it will ever come into civilian use for waterfoul, and for big game there just isn't any point. Lead is a-okay for deer and the like.

Really, if you are willing to pay for it, Bismuth-Tin is nearly ideal for waterfowl hunting. Similar ballistic performance to lead, won't scratch the barrel, and its non-toxic.

Wrong way around actually. The ATF must approve the ammunition for sporting use first, then Fish and Wildlife can decide if they want to let you use it or not on federal land or for federally regulated migratory birds. Most hunting ammo standards are set by the individual state fish and wildlife departments, not the federal government. If the ATF does not approve the ammo then nobodies Fish and Wildlife service ever matters. They are the only ones with the power to make a bullet blanket illegal to even sell in the US.

Maybe so, but if the ATF considers the very slim chance it will ever get approved for hunting then logically they aren't likely to allow it. That may not stop them, but I still doubt it will happen.

Lots of special hunting rounds will shred soft body armor. You don’t have to design ammunition like a dart to pierce steel vehicles to create a round that becomes highly capable against Kevlar.

Yeah, because soft body armor isn't meant to stop rifle rounds anyway.

[Sea Skimmer]

Actually, a major environmental concern that got lead banned from waterfoul hunting wasn't that it leeched into the soil, its that certain endangered birds, especially hawks, would swallow the pellets along with other sand that gets used in the gizzard to digest their food.

That was another concern yes. Leeching into the soil is the other big one, and creating an immense pressure to completely phase out lead ammunition on all federal land. Its really only a matter of when at this point I think. In this case leeching into the soil is the main issue, since the comments are for handgun ammunition. I heard though that the same thing is being asked in regard to other ammo typestoo, just no image like this to go with it.

The US military is already going lead free as in say, M855A1 5.56mm ammo which was first to be adapted, 7.62mm and .50cal is coming. Bismuth-tin is part of the solution for that but it does push up penetration.

Yeah, because soft body armor isn't meant to stop rifle rounds anyway.

This is about handgun ammo though. In any event vests do stop smaller caliber rifle rounds, and typical shotgun loads which are tied into the whole no lead vs AP issue tightly.

[Alyeska]

Got my safety letter. Filled out the form. Now just trying to corral some references and get them notarized.

[Alyeska]

All of my paperwork is in order. References, form filled, authorized training class. I submit everything on Monday and get finger printed and go through the background check. That will be pretty standard. I had to go through that process to become a Substitute teacher, so its pretty familiar.

[Alyeska]

Just submitted my paperwork today. Got finger printed and going through the background check. Should know in 60 days.

[Alyeska]

Real fucking subtle my Sheriffs office is. They called my place of employment today.

"So and so has applied for a concealed weapons permit. Do they work there?"

Yeah, thanks for telling my employer I applied for a permit. Thanks for the privacy.

[His Divine Shadow]

Springtime in Finland, doing some shooting in the backyard:






Accidentially declared war on Japan I think.


That was a week ago. yesterday I took out the .22lr upper and my Winchester 9422 for some practice:

[Aaron MkII]

Is that the rubberized carpet you can just buy off a roll? Cause thats a brillant idea for a winter mat, I'm stealing it.

[His Divine Shadow]

Yeah I got two meters of it, works really well, only upgrade I can think of would be some kinda straps and way to carry it easier.

[Aaron MkII]

My latest and probably last rifle purchase, unless I want to put out for a larger safe, which I don't.

Anyways, its a Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD in .308. The eventual plan is to put an ATRS flash suppressor and a POSP of some sort on it. But its just got my beater on the top for now.

Most importantly of all, the stock is one of the few on a production rifle that needs no modification to work with my hand. It feels heavy though, far heavier then my other guns. Even though its the same general weight as most of my others.

Edit: that's better. Fucking Tumblr

[Alyeska]

Still waiting on the permit. My instructor warned me that the Sheriffs office could very well take the entire 60 days just because they can.

[Sea Skimmer]

That's dumb, in PA they allow 60 days but its almost unheard of for it to take over a month. Course we are also shall issue, don't require training, don't require police to deny a permit for specific crimes, and we can openly carry rifles in a state of emergency. So its kind of a can't fail situation.

Now on the fun side. Last weekend I went shooting at one of the state ranges, encountered some friendly first generation Russian immigrants, who and I never thought I'd hear this off the internet, that their parents are now constantly complaining that talk of gun control and an AWB in the US recently is exactly like how the communists stole everyone's freedom bit by bit.