World of Tanks Mark 2

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Victory!
Battle: Himmelsdorf Friday, February 22, 2013 3:42:54 PM
Vehicle: T-34
Experience received: 4,270 (x5 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 23,265
Battle Achievements: Sniper

Don't you just hate it when you're one kill short of Top Gun and someone steals that potential sixth kill from you? I'm the sort of person who'd consider himself extremely fortunate to get even one kill in a match, which makes this all the more frustrating for me. So close, yet so bloody far...

[Skywalker_T-65]

There is a reason I only have two or three (I think) top guns.

[Vendetta]

There is a reason I only have two or three (I think) top guns.

Low number of battles?

I mean I don't reckon I'm great at tanks, but I rate just over one every hundred battles.

Although in terms of Doing Your Job I would actually look at sniper medals rather than top guns. Lazy correlation, but high hit rates correlate with high win rates.

[The Vortex Empire]

Eh, hit ratio is overrated, I often take shots while going full speed from one location to another that I barely have a chance of making. You miss every shot you don't take. The stat that correlates the most with winrate is damage per game, on everything but scouts anyway. Long as you're doing your tanks hp in damage you're pulling your weight.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I have 2k something battles (would check but the wifi is out and my phone doesn't want to work either) actually. I just can't seem to get 6 kills most of the time.

Sniper medals i have quite a few of though. Just not Top Guns.

[Vendetta]

Eh, hit ratio is overrated, I often take shots while going full speed from one location to another that I barely have a chance of making.

There's a difference between doing that and having a sub 50% hitrate, which you see on a lot of useless players. Any time I look at a player who's got a winrate worth mentioning they're running a 70%+ hit rate.

You miss every shot you don't take.

You'd think, but in a game where common reload times run up to 7-9 seconds, taking a wild shot can frequently leave you unable to fire at a good target once you've stopped and settled your aim.

The stat that correlates the most with winrate is damage per game, on everything but scouts anyway. Long as you're doing your tanks hp in damage you're pulling your weight.

The key stat that high win players have that low (and even reasonably good) win ones don't isn't even damage, it's defence points. The thing that seperates the really good players from the average and bad ones is knowing when to go back and reset a cap in progress.


Also, you aren't going to get your HP in damage if you go around missing all the time

[Mr Bean]

You miss every shot you don't take.

You'd think, but in a game where common reload times run up to 7-9 seconds, taking a wild shot can frequently leave you unable to fire at a good target once you've stopped and settled your aim.

Quite correct, not to mention if your on the move unless you have 6th sense trained and know your already spotted there are dozens of times where firing because you saw a tank means 6 other tanks might see you. By all means if you have sixth sense trained or some tank is already shooting at you shoot back. But every movement should be planned. Your not just crossing the field, your crossing the field to THAT rock or THAT dip in the ground. If your time to travel is greater than your reload time then blaze away.

[The Vortex Empire]

The key stat that high win players have that low (and even reasonably good) win ones don't isn't even damage, it's defence points. The thing that seperates the really good players from the average and bad ones is knowing when to go back and reset a cap in progress.


Also, you aren't going to get your HP in damage if you go around missing all the time

Nope. http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php ... 0stats#top

Look at the statistical analysis in the first collapsible of the first post, best correlation is heavily kills per game followed distantly by damage per game, whIch Is followed by defense. DIdnt know kIlls correlated better than damage myself, but thats what the data says.Defense doesn't correlate particularly well since you get the points even if you lose and it overvalues base campers heavily.

[Simon_Jester]

Eh, hit ratio is overrated, I often take shots while going full speed from one location to another that I barely have a chance of making. You miss every shot you don't take. The stat that correlates the most with winrate is damage per game, on everything but scouts anyway.

And on people who deliberately play low-tier for fun.

In a Tier 7 match if I do 300 damage I'm a pathetic failure. In a Tier 2 match I'm a hero.


Personally I measure performance in (kills+survivals)/battles. You are putting in an average performance if you kill an enemy tank roughly as often as you die, and a good one if you kill enemies more often than you die.

Sure, an individual case might happen where you damage three tanks badly but don't kill any, or where someone somehow always kills tanks two tiers lower than themselves despite being incompetent. But over the long haul of dozens of matches, that's gonna average out with all the times that you are the kill stealing bastard ( ) or you are the one who gets fried by a Tiger blowing away your Sherman in two shots.

[The Vortex Empire]

Course, the thing that truly defines a player's skill is being able to read the flow of the battlefield, knowing where and when the right place and right time is to be somewhere, and generally making lots of good decisions and few bad ones, which can't really be measured by any stat.

OR AVERAGE DISTANCE TRAVELED LOL

In other news, the 59-16 is somehow fun despite being a tier 6 light that sees tier 10 matches and only has 85 pen with AP. Huh. I think the auto-loader is part of it, seeing as I snuck up on a distracted M103 the other day with it and pumped 5 shots into his rear, killing him before he could react. He wasn't too happy about that.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Very important for slow heavy drivers too. Since we can't relocate in time to shore up a bad flank.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Ghetto EDIT: As it turns out, I have 4 Top Guns...but I also have 52 Snipers, and 31 Sharpshooters.

[Simon_Jester]

Course, the thing that truly defines a player's skill is being able to read the flow of the battlefield, knowing where and when the right place and right time is to be somewhere, and generally making lots of good decisions and few bad ones, which can't really be measured by any stat.

True.

I'm mostly just trying to look at the consequences of good and bad judgment. In a war game, the usual consequences of good judgment is that the enemy is destroyed, or that you are not destroyed. Bad judgment causes the opposite to happen. It's not that simple, but in the long run it should be pretty well reflected by measuring "did you destroy the enemy and avoid destruction yourself?"

[Vendetta]

Ghetto EDIT: As it turns out, I have 4 Top Guns...but I also have 52 Snipers, and 31 Sharpshooters.

Sharpshooter shows your highest uninterrupted chain of hits, which is kept across battles until you miss. There's another one, Master Gunner, which tracks your highest chain of penetrations.

I'm mostly just trying to look at the consequences of good and bad judgment. In a war game, the usual consequences of good judgment is that the enemy is destroyed, or that you are not destroyed. Bad judgment causes the opposite to happen. It's not that simple, but in the long run it should be pretty well reflected by measuring "did you destroy the enemy and avoid destruction yourself?"

Surviving or not is generally a consequence of the other things that make up successful play, rather than a component of success itself. After all, you may be surviving because you're too conservative in attack, victories where you get to survive and win might be coming because someone else on your team pushed more aggressively, did more damage, and soaked up more fire and died because if it. I've had games where I died but topped a couple of thousand damage at tier 5, where the next in line was 500 or so, and I know that it was my aggression that gave us the win, even if it meant dying.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I have 21 Master Gunners. I still feel that I'm about average at Tanks honestly

[xthetenth]

It's having a master gunner streak of 21, not having 21 of them. Same goes for sharpshooter. The ones for getting a streak of games over a set number track your longest streak. I still remember that hilarious T34 streak of 134 hits in a row.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Oh...learn something every day I guess.

[Imperial528]

Victory!
Battle: South Coast Sunday, February 24, 2013 8:35:20 PM
Vehicle: M6
Experience received: 6,890 (x5 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 33,713
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Top Gun, Sniper

[Imperial528]

Victory!
Battle: Widepark Sunday, February 24, 2013 10:05:30 PM
Vehicle: T25 AT
Experience received: 872
Credits received: 21,299
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"

Five kills. Wheeee

[Shinn Langley Soryu]

Victory!
Battle: Himmelsdorf Sunday, February 24, 2013 8:01:34 PM
Vehicle: M4 Sherman
Experience received: 3,380 (x5 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 16,001
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Master Gunner

Defeat
Battle: Ensk Sunday, February 24, 2013 8:59:10 PM
Vehicle: M4 Sherman
Experience received: 383
Credits received: 13,334
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Sharpshooter

Defeat
Battle: Cliff Sunday, February 24, 2013 9:25:05 PM
Vehicle: PzKpfw IV
Experience received: 364
Credits received: 13,516
Battle Achievements: Sniper

Defeat
Battle: Ruinberg Sunday, February 24, 2013 9:35:01 PM
Vehicle: T-34
Experience received: 340
Credits received: 16,174
Battle Achievements: Sniper, Master Gunner

Victory!
Battle: Murovanka Sunday, February 24, 2013 10:25:22 PM
Vehicle: Type 2597 Chi-Ha
Experience received: 480
Credits received: 10,819
Battle Achievements: Confederate

Story of my life. Minor victories bridged by long stretches of defeat. At least I got myself a few more Sniper medals for my troubele, as well as my first Confederate medal.

[Simon_Jester]

I'm mostly just trying to look at the consequences of good and bad judgment. In a war game, the usual consequences of good judgment is that the enemy is destroyed, or that you are not destroyed. Bad judgment causes the opposite to happen. It's not that simple, but in the long run it should be pretty well reflected by measuring "did you destroy the enemy and avoid destruction yourself?"

Surviving or not is generally a consequence of the other things that make up successful play, rather than a component of success itself. After all, you may be surviving because you're too conservative in attack, victories where you get to survive and win might be coming because someone else on your team pushed more aggressively, did more damage, and soaked up more fire and died because if it. I've had games where I died but topped a couple of thousand damage at tier 5, where the next in line was 500 or so, and I know that it was my aggression that gave us the win, even if it meant dying.

Over the long run this will probably average out- not getting enough kills will hurt the fraction I'm talking about. Being the guy who racked up 2000 damage in a Tier 5 match means scoring two, three, or more kills unless you're stupidly unlucky, and that boosts the fraction.

Damage dealt per match should correlate very strongly with kills per match, at least within any single given tank. That, at least, is my reply to "but what about all those times I do 2000 damage and you do 0 damage?" Parking your tank on the starting zone and doing nothing all match would probably net you no better than a (kills+survivals)/matches ratio of 0.5 or so, which is utterly terrible.

[Vendetta]

Damage dealt per match should correlate very strongly with kills per match, at least within any single given tank. That, at least, is my reply to "but what about all those times I do 2000 damage and you do 0 damage?" Parking your tank on the starting zone and doing nothing all match would probably net you no better than a (kills+survivals)/matches ratio of 0.5 or so, which is utterly terrible.

Depends. You could easily produce an unrepresentative ratio with just kills+survivals by prioritising sniping low HP enemies and hiding at the back. That doesn't necessarily represent you being useful to winning a game.

There's a reason that things like WN6 and Efficiency don't look at survival rate, because it simply doesn't correlate with being useful and winning games. (I think of the people I know that play the game the one with the highest survival rate has the lowest win rate).

[Thunderfire]

Over the long run this will probably average out- not getting enough kills will hurt the fraction I'm talking about. Being the guy who racked up 2000 damage in a Tier 5 match means scoring two, three, or more kills unless you're stupidly unlucky, and that boosts the fraction.

Damage dealt per match should correlate very strongly with kills per match, at least within any single given tank. That, at least, is my reply to "but what about all those times I do 2000 damage and you do 0 damage?" Parking your tank on the starting zone and doing nothing all match would probably net you no better than a (kills+survivals)/matches ratio of 0.5 or so, which is utterly terrible.

Tanks have between 120 and 700 HP in a T5 match AFAIK. 2000+ damage and no kills happens sometimes in a T5 heavy tank fight.Especially with high DPM, low alpha tanks e.g. Churchill with 6 pounder.

[Skywalker_T-65]

My survival rating is absolutely HORRID at about 12-13%. Then again, none of my tanks are the 'sit at the back and snipe' variety. All I have are Russkie heavies (which should never play sniper unless stuck on a map where they can't brawl for fear of getting sniped) and the VK 3002DB, which is the odd flanker/brawler in a tree full of snipers.

[xthetenth]

Depends. You could easily produce an unrepresentative ratio with just kills+survivals by prioritising sniping low HP enemies and hiding at the back. That doesn't necessarily represent you being useful to winning a game.

There's a reason that things like WN6 and Efficiency don't look at survival rate, because it simply doesn't correlate with being useful and winning games. (I think of the people I know that play the game the one with the highest survival rate has the lowest win rate).

One of my clanmates makes a hobby of picking holes in efficiency formulae. I think WN6 is the best because to game that he's having to go out solo pubbing in a TOG to try and get as much damage per game as possible rather than sitting in the cap circle to pick up purple points in a low tier tank or killing cappers.