World of Tanks Mark 2

[Vendetta]

The big hole in all of them is that they ignore scouts, and probably always will because the damage by scouting isn't in the published stats and may not even be recorded. WN6 is OK if you don't play arty or scouts too much, and noobmeter's Performance Rating isn't published, but does include some kind of vehicle specific weighting (they also produce stats for each vehicle based on the winrate of the vehicle divided by the winrate of everyone who has used it since 8.3, to try and figure out if a tank is winning all the time because it's super OP or if it's just winning all the time because everyone who uses it is really good)

Though you appear to be able to game PR by playing a tank that no-one else can use well, like the M3 Lee or PzKpfw.III/IV, rather than an easymode tank like an M4 Derp (though actually the tier 5 derps aren't as OP as percieved, the highest discrepancy in tier 5 mediums is the Matilda IV).

[xthetenth]

Yep, that's why a friend's account I've played on a lot has a 63% win rate and ~1200 efficiency from me grinding it up to a T-50-2 for a friend to try and that taking a huge fraction of that account's games.

[Simon_Jester]

Tanks have between 120 and 700 HP in a T5 match AFAIK. 2000+ damage and no kills happens sometimes in a T5 heavy tank fight.Especially with high DPM, low alpha tanks e.g. Churchill with 6 pounder.

Yes, it will happen- but it won't happen every time, and it's just as typical to score 2000 damage and multiple kills.

Unless you actively go out of your way to do massive but nonlethal damage to several high-HP enemy tanks, you are probably going to score at least a few kills if you manage to do 3 times more damage than any single enemy vehicle on the field can survive.

[Vendetta]

True, but the number of kills may not necessarily be well correlated with the amount of damage you did. For instance, my KV-1 has average 720 damage per match with an average of 1.4 kills, however my T1 Heavy has quite a bit more, at 875 damage per match but only 1.47 kills per match.

The T1 is probably doing more good for the team, given that the extra damage will let someone else get an extra kill more easily, but the high alpha of the KV-1 in comparison means it's competitive in killing stuff even with less damage out.

This is one of the things that ratings like WN6 are supposed to do, include as many things as there are stats for that affect how much of a contribution you're making.

[The Vortex Empire]

Man, I will never understand why so many people on the forums hate the IS-8. I'm about 2/3 of the way to the IS-7 and it's been one of the most pleasant grinds of the game. Fantastic firepower, excellent mobility, poor hull armor, but mobility trumps armor in nearly any situation, in my opinion.

Right on time too, since SerB went on record as saying he thinks the IS-7 has been overnerfed.

[Nephtys]

Some combination of damage and kills/game is probably most representative of Medium and Heavy drivers. They're easily measured with similar metrics after all. Their goal is to rob enemies of their hitpoints, and remove enemy gun barrels from the field.

Most metrics systems break down when counting scouts/arty, but for the most part, WN6 seems quite reasonable and difficult to farm. Unlike Efficiency.

[Skywalker_T-65]

The forums confuse me. So many good tanks are hated on in there. The IS-4, the DB, the T-150/KV-3 duo...it's quite obvious what tanks they like. And generally, it isn't the good ones IMO.

[Nephtys]

Depends. The T-150 has to compete with the KV-1S, which is a freaking monster. The KV-3's somewhat underappreciated since it got booted out of Tier 6.

IS-4 is fine, but well. Tier X is a mess. Only maybe 4-5 tanks are actually 'good' at that tier in coordinated play.

the DB's issue is that it's got guns available to tanks 2 tiers ago. Sorta like the KV-13's issue.

[Imperial528]

The forums confuse me. So many good tanks are hated on in there. The IS-4, the DB, the T-150/KV-3 duo...it's quite obvious what tanks they like. And generally, it isn't the good ones IMO.

People in WoT are rather strange when it comes to tank preferences, and more importantly, very black and white about it.

Take the M6 and 1s. Two tier 6 heavies with good mobility and damage output. Two completely different tanks otherwise. In the hands of a skilled player I'd say that overall they are evenly matched over a spread of games.

However, I find that when driving my M6, it is not rare for a team mate to wish that I had a 1s instead. Of course, they are remembering the many times they have seen a 1s fire and knock a tank to half-dead or more in the opening blow. Not the times an M6 has taken a 1s' shot to the track without flinching, laughing as the 1s reloads and the M6 is free to fire. Alternatively they forget the times an M6 shot the poor little 1s from halfway across the map before either one has gotten to the front lines.

[Esquire]

Hear, hear. i actually prefer my T-150 to the KV-1S, simply because I can often bounce the KV's shells and the long reload time on the 122mm gives me one or two free shots. The KV's great in certain situations, but the T-150 will almost never be a bad choice.

[The Vortex Empire]

Depends. The T-150 has to compete with the KV-1S, which is a freaking monster. The KV-3's somewhat underappreciated since it got booted out of Tier 6.

IS-4 is fine, but well. Tier X is a mess. Only maybe 4-5 tanks are actually 'good' at that tier in coordinated play.

the DB's issue is that it's got guns available to tanks 2 tiers ago. Sorta like the KV-13's issue.

Heh, I barely even remember that the KV-13 exists. You never see that thing.

[Simon_Jester]

Nepthys, what do you mean about the Tier X tanks being a mess?

[The Vortex Empire]

Nepthys, what do you mean about the Tier X tanks being a mess?

In competitive play, only a few tanks are really worth using. T110E5 is the MBT, T-62A is your standard medium, Bat Chat is your scout, T57 works for sniper/support, and whatever arty. Everything else is either useless or sees very limited niche use at best.

In pubs, the massive alpha of tier 8 arty and the tier 10 TDs, high repair and ammo costs, and general pubbie cowardice and reluctance to take hits reduces most matches to grinding campfests and forces any slow tank to either camp behind a rock or die.

[Imperial528]

Victory!
Battle: Fisherman's Bay Monday, February 25, 2013 7:25:38 PM
Vehicle: M6
Experience received: 2,060 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 21,568

I more or less just finished tanks off in this one. Or assisted and then finished.

Almost killed three tier 8s. In the end I did 1.6k damage, having killed a TOG, IS, Lowe, and Panther II. Got the most exp of the team. Sadly Vejut, who I was platooning with, got killed by the IS before he could do much.

[Nephtys]

Part also of what makes public non-organized Tier X play a mess is that at Tier X, your 'time to kill' rises in a 1v1 situation. As well as the general quality of armor against poorly aimed shots.

So while a T29 at tier 7 may take ~4 hits to kill another T29, which is about 38 seconds... while virtually guarenteed a pen if it lands anywhere except the turret front/rear.
A T110E5 at Tier X (one of the best guns) takes ~6 hits to kill another T110E5. Which is about 45 seconds. While half those shots are NOT going to pen if it hits frontally anywhere but a handful of very tiny weakspots or the lower front plate. Realistic 1v1 Time to Kill is about 60 or 70 seconds.

This makes focused fire from a team all the more important. And GOOD focused fire moreso, since it's even more vital to hit weak spots to penetrate frontally. This makes teamplay in pubs a nightmare.

In coordinated play, the T110E5 has the best balance of speed, armor and gun. The T-62 is fast and has a retardedly high DPM, making it a perfect support fire tank. The BatChat is super fast as a scout, and has a great weapon with a good burst, making it a useful skirmisher and interceptor. The T57 is a T110E5 that trades armor and speed for the ability to dump four rounds in 6 seconds, making it the best 'heavy direct fire support'. The T92 arty is the best arty, since it's splash is the size of Kansas. Obj212 isn't bad though, being a space laser beam. But it doesn't have the splash to dig out people behind what is supposed to be 'arty safe' cover.

[Skywalker_T-65]

So, when I (eventually) get the IS-4, I should probably go Clan hunting instead of playing it in Pubs? Or at the least find a good TC?

[xthetenth]

In coordinated play, the T110E5 has the best balance of speed, armor and gun. The T-62 is fast and has a retardedly high DPM, making it a perfect support fire tank. The BatChat is super fast as a scout, and has a great weapon with a good burst, making it a useful skirmisher and interceptor. The T57 is a T110E5 that trades armor and speed for the ability to dump four rounds in 6 seconds, making it the best 'heavy direct fire support'. The T92 arty is the best arty, since it's splash is the size of Kansas. Obj212 isn't bad though, being a space laser beam. But it doesn't have the splash to dig out people behind what is supposed to be 'arty safe' cover.

Arty is a lot more balanced than you're saying. The GWE has the best DPM, a good arc and is a good middle ground I've recently been hearing great things about, and the Bat Chat is very nice for some special roles and can be devastating in the right situations. For tanks, I have seen E4s get dragged out sometimes for frontloaded damage and E-100s sometimes to be HP sponges, and the Chinese medium isn't bad at all but they're the only other tanks I've seen that get taken at all. The 261 is also great at getting direct hits that do a bunch of damage. You in a clan by the way? Been meaning to ask.

So, when I (eventually) get the IS-4, I should probably go Clan hunting instead of playing it in Pubs? Or at the least find a good TC?

Absolute TCs that are worth a damn outside of landholding clans' ones aren't a thing that exists.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Clan it is then. Granted I'm only just now getting the KV-4, so it will still be quite some time.

[Nephtys]

Oh right, I did forget about the BatChat arty. That thing is nasty. But the GW type E is never used. DPM isn't an issue with arty that often, since it's more likely to ineffectually miss, as it doesn't have the 212's Laser-accuracy (and the damage potential to one-shot any soft-skin), nor the T92's nuclear blast (and the damage potential to one-shot HARD targets).

E4s aren't used as much anymore since their front armor got gutted. Most of the casemate TDs are too inflexible to be more than 1 per team. E-100s do have uses sometimes.

Haven't seen much of the chinese mediums. But it's sorta weird that the endgame Chinese Medium is a pseudo-heavy, while the heavy is a kinda-medium..

---

In other news. VK7201 ('Lowetraktor') and the M60 are in the game files on the supertest...

[xthetenth]

Oh right, I did forget about the BatChat arty. That thing is nasty. But the GW type E is never used. DPM isn't an issue with arty that often, since it's more likely to ineffectually miss, as it doesn't have the 212's Laser-accuracy (and the damage potential to one-shot any soft-skin), nor the T92's nuclear blast (and the damage potential to one-shot HARD targets).

I'm not an arty player, but people whose opinions I really respect have been talking about the GWE in a really favorable light, and DPM really isn't the thing as much as that it's got a good fraction of the T92's damage and a decent amount of the 261's reload time, and I've seen guys get some serious results in the things.

[Skywalker_T-65]

The GW is the only top arty I've used on the test servers, and I loved the thing.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Ghetto EDIT:

Victory!
Battle: Sand River Monday, February 25, 2013 9:04:18 PM
Vehicle: KV-4
Experience received: 1,558 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 26,438
Battle Achievements: Mastery Badge: "3rd Class"

First battle with the KV-4.

Victory!
Battle: Fjords Monday, February 25, 2013 9:19:39 PM
Vehicle: KV-4
Experience received: 927
Credits received: 30,005
Battle Achievements: Master Gunner, Sharpshooter, Mastery Badge: "2nd Class"

Second battle with the KV-4. This thing is a beast at top-tier. I'm dreading the T10 battles, since the D-25T already has problems with T9's. But at top-tier and in a good spot, this thing just soaks up the shells and can punch back HARD.

[Imperial528]

Victory!
Battle: Serene Coast Tuesday, February 26, 2013 7:22:49 AM
Vehicle: T25 AT
Experience received: 1,085
Credits received: 27,488
Battle Achievements: Master Gunner, Mastery Badge: "Ace Tanker"

Five kills, including both of the enemy's tier 7 heavies. Almost got top gun, but unfortunately an SU-152 interfered so I took a shot at it instead, team mates finishing the two last enemies.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Victory!
Battle: Westfield Tuesday, February 26, 2013 6:58:32 PM
Vehicle: KV-4
Experience received: 2,196 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 31,478
Battle Achievements: Steel Wall, Mastery Badge: "1st Class"

This thing...it sucks in Tier 10, but otherwise...I can't see why people don't like it. Compared to the IS-3 it isn't that great sure, but still. I took 27 hits, and probably could have taken twice that number without dying. And it isn't all that slow, even with the stock engine. It can hit near 30kph on good terrain, which considering its size is nothing to sneeze at. I think I'm just going to unlock the long-107mm and then go straight to the ST-1 though. None of the modules carry over, and I don't see that gun slowing the tank down.

[Vendetta]

Had my first scoutswarm battle today, a highly enjoyable time was had by all of us AMXs, whizzing around making fun of much bigger tanks (it was a tier X match, half the list filled with lights). Ended up killing an AMX 12, T-44 and ISU-152 (having eaten a BL-10 shot because our artillery basically ignored him no matter how many times about four people asked him to fire on a blatantly free target, preferring to try and kill gnats halfway across the map) before ending up on the wrong end of a GW Tiger who subsequently got nailed by the rest of the team.

I don't play my AMX 13-75 much these days, and I really should get back into the groove on it because it's hell of fun.