One ISD in ST galaxy (serious)

[0.1]

Interesting, ISD is essentially on a suicide mission, the key is to gain revenge. But the commanding officers must be reasonable to some regards.

If we assume that the ISD has a decent intelligence and knows the rough political situation, then it comes down to the ultimate goal. It's obvious that the ISD can do a great deal of damage, but the key is to do strategic damage in a way that the Federation would be dealt a death blow that comes years after the ISD is dead.

To that end, it's time to create some power vacuums and mislead some idiots.

1st mission: jump into DS9 area, blow it to hell, and launch fighters to kill every ship in the region. Then BDZ Bajor. Make sure there are NO survivors. (I don't recall that Bajor was part of the Federation, but the point is creating a power vaccum, to the little races in the Alpha quadrant, the wormhole is a strategic location, so let them fight over it) Make sure to tractor in some Federation wreckage.

2nd mission: Hit a Romulan world, again, same premise. NO SURVIVORS. Leave the Feddy wreckage retreived in mission 1.

3rd mission: Send technology (via 3rd party) to the Feds (yes, I remember, we're supposed to be killing the Feddies). Just some samples, a turbo laser here, some blasters there. Seed Federation territory just a little. (Use Ferengi middle men) Remember, even if every top scientist in the Federation worked on new tech round the clock, they would never ever be able to duplicate and mass produce any of it. (hell, give them working samples of Tie fighters, Tie bombers, or shuttles)

4th mission: Time to go after the idiots. Blow up or cripple a few Borg ships here and there. Make declarations that the Federation will now openly retaliate against any Borg incursions. Demonstrate hyperdrive, turbolasers, etc for the Borg and make sure they live long enough to alert the collective. The only key is making sure that the ISD can escape every time.

Continue those missions until the Borg goes after the Federation. And then as the Borgs converge on Earth, send the star destroyer into Earth sphere to defend the Federation (that's right, defend the Federation) This is where the ISD fight to the death, as the ship slowly gets overwhelmed, the captain opens a channel and say something like: "with our technology in the Federation, you will never destroy us all." The final act is the ISD bridge "explodes" during the battle with the Borg sending the ship tumbling into Earth. (Rig timer charges on the engines to ensure self-destruction)

So, this should pretty much ensure the destruction of the Federation. The first missions were set to open up power vacuums for local powers to struggle for. The second mission is to sow disenssion among former enemy/ally. Third is to provide the lure for the Borg for the long term. Fourth is to entice to Borg by demonstration. Fifth is to making sure that the Borg realize the true potency of the technology and the fact that such technology still exist in the Federation. The rest will take care of itself.

Or, I suppose we could just go BDZing planets and killing ships until we're overwhelmed.

As for the Federation admiral, he's screwed, he has no idea he is under attack, so he does what all Federation admirals do best, he talks and talks and talks until he dies.

[Lord Poe]

Well, if I were in charge of the ISD...

I'd capture a Starfleet vessel out in the boondocks, cull all the information from its databanks as possible.

Destroy a very remote outpost, on the edge of the Federation.

Send a battle scarred Lambda-class shuttle to Starfleet HQ, and warn them about powerful invaders from a galaxy far, far away, and give them the coordinates to where this massively powerful strike force of four is hiding out. Warn them to bring everything they've got.

The Feds warp to this remote system, consisting of one lone planet, scattered asteroids, and a high concentration of tetryon plasma. The sector is awash with multiflux gamma radiation, making warp impossible.

Ahead of them is the four marauders. Suddenly, all of their shields drop due to transmissions from strategically placed probe droids transmitting the respective ships' prefix codes.

Immediately, mounted heavy turbolasers on the asteroids fire on the unshielded ships, hitting vital areas. TIE fighters swarm the ships also with predetermined targets, some taking out warp nacelles, resulting in the destruction of some of the ships.

The ISD would then make its appearance, having used the pole of the planet as a cloaking shield. Its massive weaponry would rip apart whatever is left of Starfleet.

Sweet. Oh..the four marauders were AT-At landing barges.....

[Doomriser]

The answer already exists in fanfic form.
http://www.daltonator.net/fanfics/stories/jan_isd.txt

And the ISD even starts out with a disadvantage. This fanfic won a "Golden Stardestroyer Award" in ASVS, similar to the somewhat greater amount of such awards won by "Conquest."

[Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi]

One ISD could conquer large parts of Federation space, but it only has the supplies to hold a few systems. My plan would be:

1. Try to get some maps
2. Send out probe droids
3. Jump to Earth
4. BDZ Earth
5. If necessary,battle Federation ships. If they overwhelm, go into hyperspace
6. Seize a colony on the edge of Federation space
7. Deploy the garrison base, and force locals into training

Are you allowed to build more ISDs?

8. Build some ships on the colony, and send the fleet out
9. Conquer other systems, and deploy bases
10. Rule the space through fear, and build ships and conquer races

[Darth Yoshi]

I don't see how you can build another ISD. Maintenance and construction are two different things. Plus, the ISD is on a mission of vengeance, trying to avenge the supposed deaths of the Emperor and the rest of Coruscant. Forcing people through training isn't exactly making them suffer for the devastation of Coruscant.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

The answer already exists in fanfic form.
http://www.daltonator.net/fanfics/stories/jan_isd.txt

And the ISD even starts out with a disadvantage. This fanfic won a "Golden Stardestroyer Award" in ASVS, similar to the somewhat greater amount of such awards won by "Conquest."

Like SDR (except that one IS a good FanFic) if you are talking TA (and TA may not be important in a good story, but it is paramount in a debate,) ISD Eliminator has fallen far behind the times (though apparently it was rated on par with current averaged beliefs at the time.)

It needs to be completely re-written before use. Or do you really want to use a tactical model with an assumption that a phaser gets a free 28% penetration rate through Imp shields? I doubt it.

[Patrick Degan]

One ISD could conquer large parts of Federation space, but it only has the supplies to hold a few systems.

The object isn't conquest, but to build up piles of human corpses and a trail of devestated worlds. The imperatives of successful conquest and occupation are important only if that is actually your objective.

Simple destruction, on the other hand, requires only that you have the firepower and speed to pull off the attack. And the ISD has both to spare —several hundred times over.

[Doomriser]

Like SDR (except that one IS a good FanFic) if you are talking TA (and TA may not be important in a good story, but it is paramount in a debate,) ISD Eliminator has fallen far behind the times (though apparently it was rated on par with current averaged beliefs at the time.)

It needs to be completely re-written before use. Or do you really want to use a tactical model with an assumption that a phaser gets a free 28% penetration rate through Imp shields? I doubt it.

You actually did calcs? Or is this 28% in the fic? Oh well, we can just assume that the Eliminator had not properely adjusted its shields against Starfleet weaponry at that point. Actually, that's not really likely considering its previous combat engagements.

Hmm... ... ... An updated version would need a completely different plot ... might as well write a new one... Naah, we've already got IP for a similar premise, and he's updated to the latest calcs.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

I already had forgotten the Captain's name, but I distinctly remember the stated leakage percentage after all this time (actually, IIRC they said it was a 72% blockage, meaning a 28% leak.) It was one of the most annoying playbalancing attempts in my opinion (you know I'm a TA freak.) Because it really reminds me of Trekkie stories about phasers slicing right through ISD shields and hull. In fact, it almost ruined the story for me outright - that's how annoying and Trekkish it was to me.

[Doomriser]

I agree that January's decision hit me like a hot iron, but in a fic so large and detailed, it was easy to forgive.

[D.Turtle]

It seems to pretty much be the consensus that the Alpha Quadrant has no way to kill the ISD.
So, the easiest possible way is to simply say: Start BDZing or firing enough on a planet to destroy the atmosphere or in some other way ensure that pretty much all human life will be destroyed on each planet in the UFP and the other Alpha Quadrant forces (I'm assuming that the ISD thinks all the AQ forces are respobsible not just the UFP).

So, I think it might be more fun to think of creative ways of ensuring the destruction of the AQ Powers.
Thats why I think 0.1's idea was the best and most creative so far.

[Vertigo1]

Ok, now that some things have been clarified for me, here's what I would do if *I* were in command of the said ISD.

I would send out scoutships to look out for any ship, be it federation or otherwise. Then I'd jump in and disable it using turbolasers to drain shields and ion cannons to shut it down. Then I'd download any relevant data from its computers and then rig the ship to self-destruct killing all hands. After making sure no ties are left to me, I'd jump out to a "safe zone" and mount probe droids on the outer hull and rig them so that they send fake sensor read-outs according to whatever frequencies fed sensors opporate in. Then I'd jump to a relatively remote federation base alerting them to a new baddie in town. Once I gain their trust, I ask them to arrange a large fleet to be dispatched to the coordinates of a large nebula where I conveniently informed them of where the "new baddies" are located. While this is going on, I have my best slicers hacking into their computers and downloading any relevant data (fleet strength, key system locations, etc). Then when the fleet arrives, I move with them to the said nebula. Once they're all there, I lead them into the nebula and start jamming their comm systems. Then I launch a massive strike using every fighter/bomber and assault craft I have at my disposal. Since they haven't seen my craft, they'd assume that its the "baddies" and attack accordingly. Then I pick off the ships at my leisure until they get the idea that there is no such enemy and that its a trap. Of course by then it'd be too late. Once I'd be done with them, I'd return to the station with the probe droids "indicating" that I've suffered even more damage and report the loss of the fleet. I'd inform them that the baddies are on their way here and offer to evac them to the nearest starbase. Once they take the bait, I take them prisoner and nab any supplies I can from the base and blast it to hell. Since feds aren't likely to recognize turbolaser blast patterns, they'll assume its the new bad guys. Then I head straight for Earth and seed it with a virus (ala B5: ACTA) that'll kill all life on the planet. Then hit any base on the way out.

[Vertigo1]

It seems to pretty much be the consensus that the Alpha Quadrant has no way to kill the ISD.
So, the easiest possible way is to simply say: Start BDZing or firing enough on a planet to destroy the atmosphere or in some other way ensure that pretty much all human life will be destroyed on each planet in the UFP and the other Alpha Quadrant forces (I'm assuming that the ISD thinks all the AQ forces are respobsible not just the UFP).

So, I think it might be more fun to think of creative ways of ensuring the destruction of the AQ Powers.
Thats why I think 0.1's idea was the best and most creative so far.

Actually, the ISD would be stopped if the commander went in guns blazing without even thinking to fool them. It'd take a while, but it would eventually be destroyed/disabled.

[D.Turtle]

Actually, the ISD would be stopped if the commander went in guns blazing without even thinking to fool them. It'd take a while, but it would eventually be destroyed/disabled.

Maybe I should clarify: I meant that the Fed and other AQ powers would have no way to stop the ISD from destroying all life on any planet of their choosing. IOW: They might be able to destroy after a long time. However, by the time this has been done, the whole AQ will already be up in smoke (at least all major planets).
And if you want to know why: AQ has no planetary shields, which means that the ISD hyperspaces in at any point close enough to the planet to shoot at it where there isn't anyone to seriously damage them (if something llike that exists exceept for fleets of hundreds of ships).
The AQ would eventually be destroyed or run out of supplies, but by this time there wouldn't really be anything worth fighting for in the AQ.[/quote]

[Darth Wong]

OK, I go with P. Degan's idea. We know AQ planets lack planetary shields (at least not in sufficient strength to block anything more than a transporter), and we know they lack the speed to intercept an ISD as it moves through AQ territory. I was mildly curious if anyone could think of some genius tactic for the AQ to defend itself, but I didn't seriously expect anyone to think of one.

0.1's suggestion about fomenting conflict was interesting, but it was also over-complicated and risky (it reminded me of those James Bond supervillain schemes to get rid of Bond; create a scenario which should produce the desired results but don't stick around to make sure it happens).

So how much damage could it do? After viewing the replies and noting P. Degan's idea of restricting planetary attacks below a normal BDZ in order to save time and fuel, I've come up with a basic scheme for figuring that out. We know that a single BDZ is capable of causing 100% casualties, but that's overkill if you just want to bomb a planetary population back into the stone age. 1/100 of a BDZ is in the 1-10 million megaton range at the least, which is more than enough to cause a global mass extinction event, EMP's powerful enough to disable virtually all surface technology, and billions of casualties. Therefore, if an ISD only carries enough supplies to perform 10 BDZ operations (a random figure, but it doesn't seem unreasonable), it should be able to pummel at least 1000 worlds back into the stone age before running out of fuel.

Is there any evidence of how many BDZ's a single ISD can perform before running out of fuel? Even if it's just one, it should be able to pummel 100 worlds back into the stone age. While each of the major AQ powers has 100 or more worlds, many of those worlds are probably unimportant from a military/industrial standpoint, so the ability to pummel "only" 100 worlds should still be more than enough to hit all the major targets and reduce all of the AQ powers to feeble, disorganized remnants, ripe for the picking from forces such as the Breen or the Borg.

[Robert Walper]

How effective would the ISD's hyperdrive be in the ST Galaxy without star maps and such? Their first goal would be to get a hold of some in order to make their hyperdrive jumps accurate and safe, yes?

[Darth Wong]

How effective would the ISD's hyperdrive be in the ST Galaxy without star maps and such? Their first goal would be to get a hold of some in order to make their hyperdrive jumps accurate and safe, yes?

Here's a hint: if you don't want to get flames, familiarize yourself with old standby arguments and their stock rebuttals, so you that you don't make an ass out of yourself by rehashing one of the oldest fucking stupid Trekkie arguments in existence. For the umpteenth time, with ordinary telescopes and probe droids they can easily make their way, dumb-ass. How the fuck do you think we know where the stars in our galaxy are?

[Akira]

Well, the Fed commander knows the ISD is coming, right? Which means that he'll have to amass a fleet, meaning the shipyards will have heavy defenses, relative to the rest of the Federation. So attack a member world for five minutes, then hype out, leaving any communication centers intact and transmitting. That will spook the general population of the UFP, and force the SF admiral to move before he's ready. Meanwhile, the ISD will have recon units searching for any shipyards. Once the UFP fleet is either found or scattered, hype into a different system that's several days away from the fleet at maximum warp, and commence BDZ. Once the BDZ is finished, hype out and wait for the fleet to show up at the dead planet. Once it shows up, hype to the UFP shipyards and destroy them. With the shipyards gone, Starfleet will be unable to resupply. At this point, the ISD can go around commencing planetary bombardment at its leisure.

nope. Sorry. BDZ is only in the books. The books are not canon.

[Akira]

How effective would the ISD's hyperdrive be in the ST Galaxy without star maps and such? Their first goal would be to get a hold of some in order to make their hyperdrive jumps accurate and safe, yes?

Here's a hint: if you don't want to get flames, familiarize yourself with old standby arguments and their stock rebuttals, so you that you don't make an ass out of yourself by rehashing one of the oldest fucking stupid Trekkie arguments in existence. For the umpteenth time, with ordinary telescopes and probe droids they can easily make their way, dumb-ass. How the fuck do you think we know where the stars in our galaxy are?

That's how we know about the stars in our galaxy, but we don't know as much info from just telescopes as an ISD would need. The ISD would need to know where the subspace "things" are (in ST that's every other light year) and the local conditions like Gavaity.

[Patrick Ogaard]

If we're going for multiple operations below BDZ level, such as 150 to destroy all primary worlds of the Federation, what about one full power volley from the heavy turbolasers per planet, plus one full volley from the point defense guns? The basic premise is that the ISD has a dozen heavy turbolasers with a maximum yield of 300 gigatons per shot, and just under 40 light guns worth up to 6 megatons each per shot.

The ISD appears in Earth orbit and fires from orbit. HTL shots are targeted on the following areas, using flak bursts to produce the effect of a 300 gigaton airburst hydrogen bomb centered on the target zone:

1. San Francisco
2. New York
3. Chicago
4. Mexico City
5. Paris
6. Moscow
7. Cairo
8. Cape Town
9. New Delhi
10. northern China
11. the Amazon basin
12. Sydney

The LTLs target various point targets, just to spread the destruction around and utterly trash the infrastructure. New Zealand, for instance, would likely merit one or two shots, as would the Atlantis project and major cities not adequately covered by the selected HTL targets.

A second such volley could be spread to eliminate the Lunar and orbital settlements, as well as the Mars and Jupiter installations. One 300 gigaton blast into the center of Tycho City ...

After an attack lasting not more than five minutes, the ISD jumps out of the system and proceeds to attack its next target.

Since ISDs are presumably supposed to be able to fire hundreds, if not thousands, of blasts from their heavy guns and certainly thousands or even tens of thousands of blasts from their light guns, the population base and infrastructure of the UFP could be broken irrevocably. Other powers could be dealt with similarly.

An ISD captain wanting to get creative could also employ asteroids as weapons and bait. The tractor beam systems of an ISD can grab and reel in a corvette in a matter of a minute or two from a range of tens or even hundreds of kilometers once the corvette gives up pulling against the beams. Using those same abilities, an ISD should be able to latch onto one or more multikiloton asteroids, accelerate to a brisk clip while towing the rocks, and then release the rocks in the direction of a well-populated Federation world while the ISD is still too far out from the system to be easily detected. Then simply leave a probe droid to shadow the operation and report on activities. Eventually, the Federation will send starships to deal with the problem. Notified by the probe droid, the ISD captain then jumps in on the party, blasting the starships to pieces and letting the asteroid continue on its way. If done quickly enough, Starfleet may not be able to immediately figure out what is going and will thus send a second force of starships.

Even if Starfleet does catch on, the asteroid(s) bearing down on a world with millions or billions of inhabitants will leave Starfleet with two choices: accept battle with the ISD on the ISD's terms, or allow the asteroid to wipe out the population of a world like Vulcan, Andor or Bolius. Multiple such asteroid operations could be initiated throughout Federation territory, threatening assorted member worlds and colonies. The lead time could be months, but the asteroids would, for the Imperial commander, be the gift that keeps on giving. Setting up such operations at opposite ends of the Federation could break Starfleet and the Federation government, and the limitations of subspace radio would mean that local forces might not become aware of the tactic for months, allowing the same ploy to be used multiple times on an unsuspecting foe.

A similarly nasty use of the tractor beams would be to deorbit Federation orbital assets, such as McKinley Station, small starbases, and orbital habitats. That, coupled with the presumably crippling turbolaser attack above, would make rebuilding and evacuation efforts an almost hopeless endeavor.

Given the limited transport capabilities of Starfleet, evacuation of or humanitarian aid to hundreds of millions of desperate survivors would be effectively impossible. Any attempt to muster such a transport fleet would provide the ISD captain with a tempting target. Merely leaving a few probe droids in the system would allow the captain to keep tabs on the system, and the captain could then jump into the system to blast to pieces any suitably large relief/evacuation convoy.

This does bring up one possible response by a Federation commander: after losing the first convoy or three, rig an even larger convoy of Q ships (not 'Q' ships, but proper Q ships in the form of transports with concealed armaments or ultraheavy armor and shields) and disguised warships loaded for bear, shadowed by several concealed fleet elements. Once the ISD comes in to pound the convoy, the Q ships take the pounding while the disguised warships arrown in on the ISD and try to pound its shields down and play tricks with technobabble torpedoes, tractor beams and graviton beams to inhibit the ISD's hyperdrive long enough for the concealed fleet elements to add their firepower. It might take an entire fleet like the Starfleet elements of the fleet in DS9's "Sacrifice of Angels," but eventually the ISD would succumb if the fleet manages to keep the ISD from simply making a hyperdrive jump to the Gamma Quadrant. There would have to be liberal use of suicide shuttles carrying antimatter containment pods.

[Kazuaki Shimazaki]

First of all, BDZ is not canon but official, and that's good enough for us (and most other people.) Lucas will trample on it if he wants, no denying that, but he hasn't yet, so it stands. Sorry, pal.

Subspace anamolies do abound more commonly in the ST version of the Milky Way, but MOST of space is empty. Gravity conditions are insignficant in virtually all areas of space. A hyperjump can be done safely enough to outside the system, where you can take a new measurement and refine.

And there IS a gravity-shadow detection system that should bring us out of danger in advance well enough.

If you are a real paranoid person, then there are always sacrificial lambs you can use to confirm a route's safety, like a probe droid. Most likely, however, you'll get all of them back safely enough.

[Darth Wong]

That's how we know about the stars in our galaxy, but we don't know as much info from just telescopes as an ISD would need. The ISD would need to know where the subspace "things" are (in ST that's every other light year) and the local conditions like Gavaity.

Wrong, oh purveyor of idiot Trekkie arguments. Han Solo made reference only to black holes and supernovae as navigational difficulties. He dropped out of hyperspace just one planetary diameter from Alderaan, well within range of its gravity. His ship suffered no damage from the Alderaan debris field until he dropped to realspace, which means that there is only weak interaction at best between objects in hyperspace and objects in realspace. There is no inference whatsoever that an ISD needs to know the location of every "subspace anomaly" in existence, and space is large. The chance of accidentally hitting some weird anomaly is pretty low even in Trek; didn't you ever notice they always pick one up with their sensors and then move out of their way to examine it? It never just happens to be dead-ahead, so they would accidentally run into it?

As for gravity, don't be a fucking idiot. Gravity is produced by objects which we can detect today ... with telescopes.

[HRogge]

That's how we know about the stars in our galaxy, but we don't know as much info from just telescopes as an ISD would need. The ISD would need to know where the subspace "things" are (in ST that's every other light year) and the local conditions like Gavaity.

The crew of the ISD would know the stars exact position, their mass, the type of the star, maybe even all planets ! That should be enough to calculate hyperspace jumps to the edge of a solar system.

The ISD could use probe droids to get better data on interesting systems.

[Andras]

Good Plan. The tractor/asteroids and deorbited facilities is a wicked twist. I'd add comm relays and antimatter production facilities as early targets.

Sometime ago on ASVS, I jokingly posted a plan for a single World Devestator to take the AQ using nothing but probots and droidpiloted missile-boats. I'll have to see if I can dig it up.

[SirNitram]

And then the Federation lies in burning ruins, the ISD reduced to only enough fuel for transit, no munitions, the Captain will salute his crew, and jump to the edge of Earth's solar system.

He will light the main engines to full power, and set a course for Earth. Not to orbit it, to impact it. His support craft will launch and move ahead, to distract, disorganize, and harry the defenders, while the Imperator, a flying city in space, reaches high relatavistic velocities.

And hits Earth.

Long live the Emporer, the Emporer is dead.