Yuzzhan Vong vs. the Imperium of Man

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

Heh, try sending in some Skitarii.

Or even better, the Iron Hands.

[Azazal]

Heh, try sending in some Skitarii.

Or even better, the Iron Hands.

Too bad Chaos is out of the picture, infect some of the Vong with the Oblitorator virus

[darth korte]

Heh, try sending in some Skitarii.

Or even better, the Iron Hands.

Too bad Chaos is out of the picture, infect some of the Vong with the Oblitorator virus

What are you talking about? Iron WARRIORS are traitor legion. Iron Hands are loyalists.

[Lost Soal]

Too bad Chaos is out of the picture, infect some of the Vong with the Oblitorator virus

What are you talking about? Iron WARRIORS are traitor legion. Iron Hands are loyalists.

The oblitorator virus is a chaos concoction. Hence, "Too bad Chaos is out of the picture"

[Setzer]

What if the the Emperor did something more subtle then tossing around warp storms? Could he remotely tele-kill Vong Yammosks?

[LeftWingExtremist]

A Space Marine in Terminator armour isn't too dissimilar to a Spacetrooper in SW, more powerful probably; the Vong are strongly melee-based in combat (at least I don't remember them having any infantry weapons aside from the amphistaff), and that is precisely what Terminators are made for.

Thats putting it mildly, I think I once heard that a terminator surived being stepped on by a Titan. Put any termies on a vong ship and they are totaly fucked.

[Azazal]

Heh, try sending in some Skitarii.

Or even better, the Iron Hands.

Too bad Chaos is out of the picture, infect some of the Vong with the Oblitorator virus

What are you talking about? Iron WARRIORS are traitor legion. Iron Hands are loyalists.

There is so much that can be said, but the damn coffee hasn't set in yet. So in my groggy voice I only say, read the post, comprehend the post, love the post.

[Elheru Aran]

A Space Marine in Terminator armour isn't too dissimilar to a Spacetrooper in SW, more powerful probably; the Vong are strongly melee-based in combat (at least I don't remember them having any infantry weapons aside from the amphistaff), and that is precisely what Terminators are made for.

Thats putting it mildly, I think I once heard that a terminator surived being stepped on by a Titan. Put any termies on a vong ship and they are totaly fucked.

To be fair, it was a *small* Titan...

[HRogge]

To be fair, it was a *small* Titan...

There are "small" titans ?
Imperial Guardsman: "Look at this small titan..."

Better say it was no huge titan but a large one...

[NecronLord]

Thats putting it mildly, I think I once heard that a terminator surived being stepped on by a Titan. Put any termies on a vong ship and they are totaly fucked.

All that really means is that the ground was easier to deform than the tactical dreadnought armour.

[NoXion]

Thats putting it mildly, I think I once heard that a terminator surived being stepped on by a Titan. Put any termies on a vong ship and they are totaly fucked.

What sort of surface was the termie standing on when he got trodden on?

[Azazal]

Thats putting it mildly, I think I once heard that a terminator surived being stepped on by a Titan. Put any termies on a vong ship and they are totaly fucked.

What sort of surface was the termie standing on when he got trodden on?

As I recall he was inside of a burnt out building, so maybe concrete??

[Elheru Aran]

Rubble. It was a Space Wolves Terminator, and while I can't find the exact codex and passage, he's telling some jump-pack equipped tacmarines to move when one of their own Titans-- it says a Warhound IIRC, though it may be a Warlord-- comes through and stomps them. The tacmarines jump out of the way, but the termie is right under the Titan's foot; however, when it passes, he just shoves himself up and out of the rubble with minor scratches.

[Azazal]

Rubble. It was a Space Wolves Terminator, and while I can't find the exact codex and passage, he's telling some jump-pack equipped tacmarines to move when one of their own Titans-- it says a Warhound IIRC, though it may be a Warlord-- comes through and stomps them. The tacmarines jump out of the way, but the termie is right under the Titan's foot; however, when it passes, he just shoves himself up and out of the rubble with minor scratches.

If you have the Index Astartus books, it's in with the article on termie armor

[LeftWingExtremist]

Rubble. It was a Space Wolves Terminator, and while I can't find the exact codex and passage, he's telling some jump-pack equipped tacmarines to move when one of their own Titans-- it says a Warhound IIRC, though it may be a Warlord-- comes through and stomps them. The tacmarines jump out of the way, but the termie is right under the Titan's foot; however, when it passes, he just shoves himself up and out of the rubble with minor scratches.

Sorry Im a just heard it somewhere im not really sure about what really happened. Anyway assault cannons for teh win.

[Simon_Jester]

I hadn't thought of it that way. I had the impression of a guy standing there with an eyepiece ala Master and Commander and that's probably not the case.

LP

Well, I recall another description of the master gunner putting his special eye to the nova cannon's sight, a big brass telescope, and getting all kinds of HUD data.

It's logical that you'd need a big 'scope, because ultimately, you've got to gather sufficient light to analyse.

HUD data suggests that the thing just looks like a telescope. Sort of like how a computer console in 40k is a 'lectern' or whatever; they actively encourage a degree of technological illiteracy, so technical vocabulary gets replaced with dumbed-down terms in the minds of most people in the setting. "Logic-engine," not computer, and so on.

[Brother-Captain Gaius]

What the Christ, dude. This thread is seven years old.

[gigabytelord]

What the Christ, dude. This thread is seven years old.

Holy jeebus.

On a side note with the more resent material being released for WH40k, does any of that new stuff affect the outcome of this particular force-sub in any way? Because this seems like a fairly one sided contest.

No chaos gods or interference in the warp means much faster and safer use of the warp for everything from communications to teleporting, massive amounts of resources are freed up all across the galaxy, which in a logical world would mean that the IoM would immediately start expanding and consolidating it's hold on the galaxy.

Then again it's equally plausible that the entire damned thing would fall apart in a frenzy of civil war as trillions of soldiers across the empire suddenly find themselves without an enemy to fight and metric shit tonnes of armaments just sitting around.

[Simon_Jester]

Crap I screwed up. Followed a link to this, then... totally zoned out.

[Cykeisme]

Does that mean it's not ok to post in this thread anymore?

I'm just going to point out that the BFG game and various novels give 40k space combat typical weapon ranges in the tens to hundreds of kilometers. Vong has SW-level FTL capabilities which might work well to negate the advantage a lot of the time, but just putting it out.
Particularly noteworthy since most pop sci-fi shows ship combat working like in the age of sail, and 40k is goddamn overflowing with anachronisms.. yet they surprisingly portrayed this aspect realistically.

[gigabytelord]

Does that mean it's not ok to post in this thread anymore?

I'm just going to point out that the BFG game and various novels give 40k space combat typical weapon ranges in the tens to hundreds of kilometers. Vong has SW-level FTL capabilities which might work well to negate the advantage a lot of the time, but just putting it out.
Particularly noteworthy since most pop sci-fi shows ship combat working like in the age of sail, and 40k is goddamn overflowing with anachronisms.. yet they surprisingly portrayed this aspect realistically.

I seem to remember the average engagement ranges to be in the ten of thousands to single digit thousands of km, even then I think SW ships would still out range them on average.

That being said, how often do we see SW ships engage each other at such ranges, technical capabilities are one thing, but standard combat doctrine is something else entirely.

[Batman]

What is standard combat doctrine for Star Wars? What we see in the movies and the Clone Wars cartoons is only a small fraction of the Star Wars there is. So what's the average engagement range in the novels? (20 Bucks on it being pretty much the same point-blank ranges as shown on screen, but I thought I'd give it a try).

[Connor MacLeod]

It might help if we don't talk about 'combat doctrine' as if it were some sort of religious truth set in stone (insert your own 40K jokes here.) Tactics DO change after all, even in sci fi militaries that tend to be less impressive than modern forces or shit.

[gigabytelord]

It might help if we don't talk about 'combat doctrine' as if it were some sort of religious truth set in stone (insert your own 40K jokes here.) Tactics DO change after all, even in sci fi militaries that tend to be less impressive than modern forces or shit.

Duly noted Connor, and just to clarify I'm indeed speaking of standard Military Doctrine in this regard, and I am definitely aware that tactics can change, but if history is anything to go by this change is usually forced on to the combatants generally by massive loss of life because of the introduction of new technologies or old technologies being used in new ways.

So the question is, does the standard combat doctrine of the two powers give enough leeway to allow changes in existing tactics and the development of entirely new ones in such a setting?

Just to go over the things we know now.

FTL:

Vong - Hyperdrive = fast, reliable and most importantly SAFE, unless the routes haven't been mapped. (which is something that is rarely brought up in the Vs. threads I've seen so far)

IOM - Now has a relativity clean warp = faster travel times and communications (But exactly how fast I'm not sure)

Weapons are fairly equal, what IOM ships lack in barrel for barrel firepower it seems they make up for in shear frickin numbers of pointy things they attach to each ship.)

Numbers:

The Imperium takes that cake, but for how long? The galaxy is a big place, and if all of the IOM's enemies are gone, then the same is true for the Vong which may make it easier for them to slip through Imperial fingers for a long enough time to setup a base, but at the same time now that the IOM's are.. gone... that means vast quantities of military hardware are now available for use in places not previously possible.

[Eternal_Freedom]

I recall various pre-PT EU books saying that Ackbar's tactics (which were really Lando's) at Endor of closing to point-blank range were novel/innovative/unexpected. Of course, that doesn't fit with ROTS and the battle over Coruscant.

I would suspect combat ranges to be tens to hundreds of km based on a few gut feelings from reading some of the books. I have a feeling it is like the age of sail; ships can blast away at each other from a distance for hours with little real effect but if you want a decisive action you close the range.