Yeah, that was it. Might be interesting to see that, especially as one can also include the Narn/Centauri occupation/freedom war if one wants to add that as a backdrop.Darksider wrote:The Dilgar? Might be interesting to see that fight.
Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Moderator: NecronLord
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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Darksider
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
I think the Narn uprising against the Centauri was already over by the time of the Dilgar war, so that might have to be a different series altogether.
And this is why you don't watch anything produced by Ronald D. Moore after he had his brain surgically removed and replaced with a bag of elephant semen.-Gramzamber, on why Caprica sucks
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Themightytom
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
I wouldn't mind seeing a mini series covering babylon 4's war against the Shadows, sure we know they win the war, and we know Sinclair survives it, but I'd still want to see it. I also really want to know how the hell Catherine Satei goes back to the past, there's a reference in the comic books that leads me to believe that. i thought there was an implication that King Arthur might have been connected to Valen as well.
Then I'd also like to see a little more future. Maybe the efforts of the rangers to rebuild Earth set against the back drop of the Interstellar alliance of the future.
Then I'd also like to see a little more future. Maybe the efforts of the rangers to rebuild Earth set against the back drop of the Interstellar alliance of the future.
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
I think how Sakai ends up in the past is covered in the book To Dream in the City of Sorrows by Kathryn M. Drennon. It's implied that she ends up with Sinclair/Valen but it has been a really long time since I read the book.Themightytom wrote:I wouldn't mind seeing a mini series covering babylon 4's war against the Shadows, sure we know they win the war, and we know Sinclair survives it, but I'd still want to see it. I also really want to know how the hell Catherine Satei goes back to the past, there's a reference in the comic books that leads me to believe that. i thought there was an implication that King Arthur might have been connected to Valen as well.
Then I'd also like to see a little more future. Maybe the efforts of the rangers to rebuild Earth set against the back drop of the Interstellar alliance of the future.
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
^You are correct about that.
Whoever says "education does not matter" can try ignorance
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
------------
My LPs
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A decision must be made in the life of every nation at the very moment when the grasp of the enemy is at its throat. Then, it seems that the only way to survive is to use the means of the enemy, to rest survival upon what is expedient, to look the other way. Well, the answer to that is 'survival as what'? A country isn't a rock. It's not an extension of one's self. It's what it stands for. It's what it stands for when standing for something is the most difficult! - Chief Judge Haywood
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My LPs
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
I'd seen some Season 2 and Season 3 episodes of B5 as they aired, but it was when TNT took it over in 1998 and put the series on weeknights at 7pm that I really got into the series, getting to see it from the beginning, and I loved it. By that time I was already a devoted fan of DS9 (which was in the middle of its Dominion War arc at the time) and B5 easily matched it in quality in my view of the time, and honestly still does. I consider B5 and DS9 to be the best sci-fi shows of the 90s even though I acknowledge that X-Files was more popular in terms of fanbase (I honestly never got into it), and still consider them to be the bars by which all sci-fi is measured.
”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.
DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.
DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
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mr friendly guy
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
I never got into B5 when it first aired in Australia. It was still in the first season, and IMO it didn't become really good until seasons 2-4. However when I browsed the internet I started reading the synopsis of B5 and became addicted, and I knew I had to see the series eventually. So I would borrow VHS and DVDs while I was in Uni, and I remember just prior to receiving my first paycheck I went and purchased Season two of B5. I would later acquire all 5 seasons, movies and even the Lost Tales (which were only ok).
To me B5 ranks with ST :TOS and classic Doctor Who (particularly from the Pertwee to Tom Baker era) as one of the best sci fi series out there. While they were clearly different in theme, tone and even sci fi subgenre they are all enjoyable. I would put DS 9 as pretty good as well, but I don't think it quite matches B5, both thematically and plot wise particularly the overarching storylines. Plus Bruce Boxleitner was awesome in delivering John Sheriden speeches.
To me B5 ranks with ST :TOS and classic Doctor Who (particularly from the Pertwee to Tom Baker era) as one of the best sci fi series out there. While they were clearly different in theme, tone and even sci fi subgenre they are all enjoyable. I would put DS 9 as pretty good as well, but I don't think it quite matches B5, both thematically and plot wise particularly the overarching storylines. Plus Bruce Boxleitner was awesome in delivering John Sheriden speeches.
Never apologise for being a geek, because they won't apologise to you for being an arsehole. John Barrowman - 22 June 2014 Perth Supernova.
Countries I have been to - 14.
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Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Countries I have been to - 14.
Australia, Canada, China, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, Finland, Germany, Malaysia, Netherlands, Norway, Singapore, Sweden, USA.
Always on the lookout for more nice places to visit.
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
I honestly can't pick between B5 and DS9 on which is better, so I don't try. But I don't begrudge that opinion in others.
”A Radical is a man with both feet planted firmly in the air.” – Franklin Delano Roosevelt
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.
DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
"No folly is more costly than the folly of intolerant idealism." - Sir Winston L. S. Churchill, Princips Britannia
American Conservatism is about the exercise of personal responsibility without state interference in the lives of the citizenry..... unless, of course, it involves using the bludgeon of state power to suppress things Conservatives do not like.
DONALD J. TRUMP IS A SEDITIOUS TRAITOR AND MUST BE IMPEACHED
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Despite the fact they're often accused of being alike, they aren't really except in superficial ways (sci fi series with space stations get involved in big wars.) DS9 was less 'big arc-y' than B5 was, but that also made them more flexible story wise (Fewer plot holes and gaps to plug up than B5 had.) but it also influences the way those stories are told quite a bit differently. DS9 was also very much about the Federation having to adapt its ideological views to a 'real world' scenario where those ideals didn't quite fit in - having to cope with another war, whilst dealing with cultures who most assuredly did not follow Federation ideals..Steve wrote:I honestly can't pick between B5 and DS9 on which is better, so I don't try. But I don't begrudge that opinion in others.
B5 was more conflict ridden tan DS9 in that respect, and it tended to have a broader focus (no one 'faction' per se, except those centered around Babylon 5, were central, whereas DS9 was still essentially a 'Federation' show, just a more braodly expanded one.)
Overall it makes comparing the two difficult and probably pointless, because they started out differently and went in diffrent dirrections and had (I suspect) different goals. Each show had its strengths and its weaknesses, and it hard (and probably silly) to say that one was inherently 'better' than the other, rather than 'both shows were different'.)
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Pbbbbt DS9 was better. Better looking, better effects, better actors, better acting, better stand alone stories, better retarded space battles, better religious stuff.
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Better Star Trek branding too. They both had bad stories (lots of them) but B5 wasn't full of smug twee bullshit nerds lapped up and was instead Tolkien in SPAAAACE and thus better.
And seriously B5 acting was awful but Sisko is probably the hammiest, most laughable overacting scenery eater since Khan.
And seriously B5 acting was awful but Sisko is probably the hammiest, most laughable overacting scenery eater since Khan.
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Please. I'm the last one to be all about Star Trek branding. I never went out of my way to watch TOS. I watched TNG, but not anything close to consistently. DS9 I couldn't stand at first and it wasn't until I went back later that it grew on me. I watched the first episode of Voyager and Enterprise and pretty much called it quits on both of them after each one.
I loved that about Hawk. He was actually the reason I started watching DS9 and was totally bummed that he was all quite and reserved and that was a big reason I didn't like DS9 at first. It wasn't until I caught an episode when he had grown his Hawk back that I started watching and liking it.
I loved that about Hawk. He was actually the reason I started watching DS9 and was totally bummed that he was all quite and reserved and that was a big reason I didn't like DS9 at first. It wasn't until I caught an episode when he had grown his Hawk back that I started watching and liking it.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Clearly you need to watch more Gundam Havok.
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Dude the best part about Sisko's horrible acting was when he'd decide to try and do Picard measured and calm but suck at it. He's not a bad actor (well, he's not Marina Sirtis) but even without the horrible jokes of B5 he managed to out-fail an entire show of fail singlehanded. We should totally make a vs thread for dumbest B6 episode vs dumbest DS9 episode, because seriously, jack the fucking ripper vs satan, how do you choose which sucks more shit?
And please Connor anime is for babies, totally unlike comic books which are for serious.
And please Connor anime is for babies, totally unlike comic books which are for serious.
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Super for serious.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
No no, I want you to pick the dumbest DS9 ep you can. Can you top king fucking arthur? jack the fucking ripper? I don't think you can, not even with the endless stream of fucking awful Colm Meaney vehicles.
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Hmmm. Yeah, those are tough to beat. Lemme see.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
B5 had some great moments with both Londo and G'kar, especially when they had moved beyond their initial 'season 1' stereotypes. Same with Vir. I still love his reaction to seeing Morden with his head on a pike.
As far as Sisko's acting goes the worst part for me was the fact he seemed compelled to proclaim everything. It made me think every line in his script was deliberately put in ALL CAPS or something.
As far as Sisko's acting goes the worst part for me was the fact he seemed compelled to proclaim everything. It made me think every line in his script was deliberately put in ALL CAPS or something.
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Whatever you got, I got technomages.Havok wrote:Hmmm. Yeah, those are tough to beat. Lemme see.
And Connor, Bruce did that too. It was 90s scifi chic - everything is AS SAID BY MOSES.
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Y'know, I think B5 wins. There were some pretty bad DS9 episodes like the evil cloud that attacks the bjoran village because they think it will... the one (thankfully) appearance of Q. The Vanessa Williams Riza episode oh man that one sucked. The one really bad O'Brien gets screwed episode is when Molly falls into a time vortex thing, but even that one doesn't t compare I don't think.
oh man that one sucked. The one really bad O'Brien gets screwed episode is when Molly falls into a time vortex thing, but even that one doesn't t compare I don't think.It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Bruce was one of those aformentioned hole fixes I mentioned, and despite the best efforst of the script he never quite fit into the story as I suspect was intended. I think its notable that when you consider alot of the Human/Minbari foreshadowing in Season 1, that aspect of the story never really regained the momentum I think it was intended to have, because Sheridan was never quite the same as what Sinclair was intended to be with that whole 'Valen' angle, and the retcons they tried there never quite fixed it.
Which interesitngly, left the Centauri and Narns to carry the bulk of the dramatic tension and story development. That much at least was well done, but it didn't really matter in the end because by season 4 the whole buildup had pretty much been shot to hell by teh MUST FINISH PLOT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE rushjob. and really the series never recovered from the damage done to season 4 and 5. I suspect that's one big reason why b5 never 'recovered' and why Crusade got cut short so soon. Western television simply wasn't made for big arcs like that.
I imagine if it had been done as a self-contained anime series it would have worked out, though.
DS9's best episodes were fairly self contained... the ones where they dwelt more on 'non-federation' aspects of the Star Trek universe (Quark getting to develop more beyond the Ferengi stereotype, for example.) Or Gul Dukat. I rather liked his character and I didn't like when they decided to pull the 'ANGELS AND DEVILS' shit and made him 'POSSESSED dukat'. Kind of a cheap shot and ruination of all the buildup there. Garak was also a good character, I think, in that he was complex (not quite a good guy or a bad guy, but a very pragmatic one) but also very honest with himself and who he is.
I also thought DS9 was also quite good when it tried to throw Federation ideals up against grim reality, in showing things like the impact of war and such.
Which interesitngly, left the Centauri and Narns to carry the bulk of the dramatic tension and story development. That much at least was well done, but it didn't really matter in the end because by season 4 the whole buildup had pretty much been shot to hell by teh MUST FINISH PLOT AS FAST AS POSSIBLE rushjob. and really the series never recovered from the damage done to season 4 and 5. I suspect that's one big reason why b5 never 'recovered' and why Crusade got cut short so soon. Western television simply wasn't made for big arcs like that.
I imagine if it had been done as a self-contained anime series it would have worked out, though.
DS9's best episodes were fairly self contained... the ones where they dwelt more on 'non-federation' aspects of the Star Trek universe (Quark getting to develop more beyond the Ferengi stereotype, for example.) Or Gul Dukat. I rather liked his character and I didn't like when they decided to pull the 'ANGELS AND DEVILS' shit and made him 'POSSESSED dukat'. Kind of a cheap shot and ruination of all the buildup there. Garak was also a good character, I think, in that he was complex (not quite a good guy or a bad guy, but a very pragmatic one) but also very honest with himself and who he is.
I also thought DS9 was also quite good when it tried to throw Federation ideals up against grim reality, in showing things like the impact of war and such.
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Yeah but then there would be highschool kids and singing.
It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses.
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Look just be happy that DS9 never got any movies because it sucked too bad and thus you never got the DS9 version of THIRDSPACE.
Wait, you had Sacrifice of Angels. SAME SAME!
Wait, you had Sacrifice of Angels. SAME SAME!
Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
Damn you and your memory. I can never remember what shows are called what. 
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Connor MacLeod
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Re: Babylon 5 - 20 Years Later
There were B5 movies that were worse than Thirdspace. What was the one with the Soul Hunters again? That was so forgettable.