World of Tanks Mark 2

[Skywalker_T-65]

Since I already have the DB, I see little point in going to the test server. I'm going to get the Indien Panzer eventually anyway, and I know the Leo twins are going to be super-sized ELC's...sooo...little point

[Temjin]

Ya'know, I used to laugh at those T49 and Hellcat drivers that thought they were driving a light tank and were generally the first to die. Now I know why that happens. It's because their team bitches at them until they learn those bad habits. Very first match in my brand new Hellcat, and I get called a baddie by a KV-2 only a few minutes into the match because he wants to play sniper and I won't go scout for him. Of course, the place he wants me to go is loaded with tanks and the minute we spot each other I die. Why? Because I'm in a fucking tank destroyer.

I'm okay with the idea of having to scout in the final minutes of the game, when it's "do it or lose," but in the first few minutes of the game? When almost all the enemy tanks are alive? Fuck you.

Of course, several members on my team agreed with him.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I'm a horrid scout player at the best of times.

But I would NEVER do that in a non-dedicated scout. I don't even like doing it in the ELC, since its more like the T49 than say...the M5A1.

[Imperial528]

I scout in the M6...

It is fulfilling, when it works.....

Hell I scouted in my M37 a few times.

[Skywalker_T-65]

I'm a horrid scout player at the best of times.

But I would NEVER do that in a non-dedicated scout. I don't even like doing it in the ELC, since its more like the T49 than say...the M5A1.

When I scout, I die, and generally before finding many people. Doesn't help that my fastest tank I play a LOT is the T-150, and its not what anyone would call particularly speedy.

[Vendetta]

Of course, the place he wants me to go is loaded with tanks and the minute we spot each other I die. Why? Because I'm in a fucking tank destroyer.

Do you know where the tanks are? (NB: On most maps they go to pretty much the same places so you do) If so, can you think of a way to approach them without exposing yourself too much? "Scouting" doesn't mean whipping your cock out and charging at the enemy with it flapping in their faces, that's called "suicide" (unless you're an exceptional T-50 driver and even then you won't get away with it all the time). It doesn't even really mean camping in a bush providing vision for your team. Detecting enemies is about figuring out cheeky ways of spotting them whilst minimising exposure to yourself.

You should be up getting aggressive in a Hellcat or T49 though, because whilst they're tank destroyers they're not german tank destroyers, it's not their job to hide at the back in a bush providing long range fire. They're fast and mobile and can move around the battlefield easily, and in a Hellcat they can bring that 90mm with them to absolutely anywhere on the battlefield that needs it at that particular moment, whilst also looking for a break in the lines to terrorize enemy scumbags artillery.

And that's, well, scouting.

[Temjin]

This was on Prokhorovka, on the west side where there's concealment for both sides seperated by a large open field. If there was a way to get a cheeky spot on these guys, I would have with out being asked to. My complaint was mainly about the guy in the KV-2 wanting me to charge ahead and get myself killed. Apparently my speed makes my tank magic.

I have no problem being aggresive in my T49 or my Hellcat. Their speed makes them extremely versatile tanks. And they can scout in a pinch if they need to. I just have a problem being asked to charge into certain death.

P.S. Hey, watch what you say about German tank destroyers. I've seen people playing very aggressively in those things and doing amazingly.

[Vendetta]

I probably wouldn't have gone west side on Prokhorovka in a Hellcat. Go east side, take the hill if you're south and dig in at the dip in the ground near the houses at the river if you're north, that lets you get shots on the people on the hill and dislodge them as well as assisting the town and the mid crossing on the tracks, letting you move up onto the hill to flank the bottom crossing and get at the juicy arty if your attack succeeds or retreat back to the tracks if it looks like it's going wrong. I've had great success from there in both my Comet and Centurion, and the Hellcat should be able to use the same spots because whilst it's generally made of cardboard it's got a pretty trolly mantlet and you're pretty well covered by the houses and dip in the ground.

West side on Prokh is always a stalemate until someone blinks and piles in (and usually explodes) or the east side has happened and there's just one corner left, the map is almost never won on the west. And the KV-2 shouldn't have been there either, heavies shouldn't go west because it's too easy for the stealthier TDs to hold, they should fight over the track crossings and town (cheeky American ones can abuse the hill, especially the T1 and M6 because of their engine power), just like they shouldn't go to the valley of death on Lakeville, the inevitable StuG or three that will be in every tier 5-6 match can smack them around from the bushes too easily.

[Temjin]

Trust me, if it was up to me, I wouldn't have gone west either. But it was either that, or let the west just fall because the only people over there were the KV-2 and a tier four TD.

Besides, the west isn't all the bad for a hellcat. Especially if you start in the south. They do have a small hill there you can use for cover while also being elevated enough to get (kinda) flank shots in enemies in the centre. It's much eaiser to exploit this in a turreted tanked with good gun depression. It also has a gentle enough slope so that when you do have targets in front of you, you can fire from a hull down position.

It's still not an ideal spot, mind you, but if you're going to be on that flank anyway...

[Highlord Laan]

I always raise my eyebrows, and proceed to ignore, witless retards who scream and curse at me to scout in my Crusader. I've tried to explain that I have neither the speed or the mobility for that, only to get the response "ur alt tank go scowt" or something along those lines. I generally either put the window-licker on ignore or enjoy watching him fill up the chat with half-literate demands while I continue scavenging for kills and criticals.

[Zinegata]

The Crusader can actually scout pretty well. I tended to use it as a sort of heavy scout which could also take down the other team's scout.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Victory!
Battle: Himmelsdorf Friday, April 05, 2013 10:36:15 AM
Vehicle: KV-4
Experience received: 2,050 (x2 for the first victory each day)
Credits received: 20,282
Battle Achievements: Reaper

5 kills and nearly 2k damage in a Tier 10 battle. I'm impressed with myself.

[Imperial528]

GWPanther: T34 I need targets.
GWP: T34 please.
Me: GWP I can't see them, I could only shoot them because T-54 was spotting for me. They're in cover and I have a low view range and am few shots from death.
GWP: Please T34.
*T-54 goes around and finds most of them have moved somewhere else, I sigh and move forward, spotting their T26E4, and fire at it. GWP does nothing*
*I start to go back into cover*
GWP: Please spot
*I move back out, shoot T26E4, it is with 1% health*
Me: Look their arty has a bead on me.
GWP: Please stay.
*T26E4 tracks me*
Me: Fuck this.
*Both M12s near-miss me, I am at 14hp. T26E4 finishes me*


Fucker lost me my steel wall. If he'd killed the T26E4 I'd be more sympathetic but he didn't fire a shot at it.

[Skywalker_T-65]

And THAT is an arty player I would gleefully watch blow up. If you are going to ask someone (in a heavy no less) to scout...take bloody advantage of it. I'm only to the Priest arty wise, and the most I'll say to scouts is 'I'm set up...light me a target'. I'll never got out of my way to say.

"lololol you in da *insert tank that really shouldn't be scouting* go scoukt over thar!!'

Ugh.

[Stark]

ITT people still learning snipers are cowards?

[Vendetta]

Urgh. Stock Caernarvon is painful. It's vaguely competent at tier 8, but as soon as you hit a tier 9 game you're doomed.

[Vendetta]

ITT people still learning snipers are cowards?

Mang, arty aren't even snipers, they're the mortar from bf3.

[The Vortex Empire]

ITT people still learning snipers are cowards?

Not just snipers, snipers with splash damage that can shoot over walls and hills.

[Skywalker_T-65]

Yeah, I wouldn't call arty snipers per-say. Though I won't argue the coward point.

EDIT: Ninjaed...when I think sniper, I think German TD/heavy. Not arty. Though that's just me.

[Imperial528]

ITT people still learning snipers are cowards?

Not just snipers, snipers with splash damage that can shoot over walls and hills.

Don't forget that some have enough splash to shoot through what cover they can't blow up or shoot over.

[Skywalker_T-65]

That's why I doubt I'll go past the Priest. Its an actual test of skill (well, by arty standards anyway) since the splash damage is downright pitiful. You have to land a near direct hit, and that's more difficult than it sounds.

[Vendetta]

Yeah, I wouldn't call arty snipers per-say. Though I won't argue the coward point.

The coward thing is at the core of being a sniper in most games. It's based on using a weapon that allows you to attack from safety in a way that is difficult or impossible for people to shoot back at you.

Arty is all about that. It is played by the sort of people who can't abide the concept that people get to shoot back at them.

It's also boring as fuck top down point and click on the man business.

[Stark]

Yeah, I wouldn't call arty snipers per-say. Though I won't argue the coward point.

EDIT: Ninjaed...when I think sniper, I think German TD/heavy. Not arty. Though that's just me.

Why do people use French phrases if they're going to spell it like a complete ignoramus?

Anyway, putting things in games that REWARD COWARDICE is in my opinion a fundamental error. In shooters they do it because they always have (and there are legions of cowards) but in many games the sole results of having snipers are negative. Kill pace, reward static (ie, crap) play, distort map flow, reward cowards, reward clan groups more than they are already advantaged, etc.

In WoT it has always struck me that they were clumsily added where unnecessary and in probably the most laughably stupid way imaginable.

[Imperial528]

Sometimes, you really do need an artillery piece. There is that one tank in that one hull-down position holding you up and keeping you from killing the tanks protecting its flanks.

Most of the time, artillery provides some fire support when it hits. God help you if you are the one who got hit. Especially since, with most of the player base being idiots, most artillery players are too, so they don't mark their targets, and end up killing allies engaged in close-combat.

Or worse, shout at people to scout, and then miss or not fire when you finally do.

Otherwise the only other use of arty is to provide map-wide fire support, but a decently armed scout or fast medium can do the same thing and much more reliably.

Oh, and combine all that with the bad map design and most maps not having large enough arty-safe areas to actually fight in, you get rock-humping. Because everyone is scared of the cowards.

[Stark]

Right, but the solution to 'tactical need to break camp' is not 'add camping'. If WoT had flow problems (which wouldn't surprise me at all) they probably needed gametypes from the 21st century more than snipers.