Why do people love bashing America?

[slebetman]

Another thing, insulting me won't change the fact that, out of all the world, America is the only nation that doesn't blame other one for all its problems.

Nobody blames the US for all of their problems. Take any country in the world, any at all and you find that most of the time most people blame their own governments for most of their problem. This has always been the case and I presume it will always be the case.

In fact, America bashing (US bashing to be specific) is not at all about blaming the US for domestic problems. It's mostly complaining about US foreign policy. For muslims it's complaining about the US killing tons (and by this point in time it's literally "tons") of muslims. For the Chinese it's complaining about people in the US government making anti-Chinese rhetoric. For the French it's apparently about US internet companies taking trade away from French businesses and yet are untaxable. So on and so forth. It's a lot of different people complaining about a lot of specific but different issues that they have with the US. But for most people, the number one thing they complain about is their own governments.

In this regard Americans are just like the rest of the world - they blame some countries for some of their problems but mostly they blame their own government.

[loomer]

How many wars has America started in the Twentieth Century? The answer is just one. How many total? Five.

So America started one war in the 20th century or five wars in the 20th century. Its not quite clear .

I think he believes that there were only give wars in the 20th century. I assume he's going with WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam and Gulf '90-91.

If that is his belief, we can add it to the pile of reasons people mock America.

He's probably talking wars America started, total. Which still fails, as America has started...

Fifteen (Independence, 1812, Indian Wars, the Punitive Expeditions, Mexican-American, Utah, Civil War, Spanish-American, the Phillipine-American war (where, coincidentally, Americans tortured a bunch of folk), the South American interventions, Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Afghanistan and Iraq)

I'm not counting the Second Barbary, and I'm being generous by lumping the various Polynesian and South American interventions and punitive wars into a couple rather than counting each individually.

[The Romulan Republic]

You're also being generous by counting the Indian Wars as one war.

[loomer]

True, though many of them don't fit the strict definition of war. Mind you, neither do the punitive expeditions.

[Edi]

Darth Herobrine, I'd like to know what you define as bashing America.

Like many people have explained in this thread, the US gets a lot of flak for the following reasons:
- It is the most powerful country at the moment and likes to throw its weight around
- Sanctimonious rhetoric about American values and superiority and then spectacularly failing to live up them while denigrating its allies (that last often from Americans like you more so than from your government)
- Meddling in other countries internal affairs (Middle East, Latin America)
- In addition to the above, funding and arming dictators and facilitating deadly civil wars in pursuit of American economic interests (in direct contradiction of the standard American freedom-democracy-goodness rhetoric)

When you look at US history and include all the low points and underhanded shit it has pulled in addition to all the good things, it becomes clear that the US is far from perfect. But you and many others like you react instantaneously to any criticism of the US as "bashing". That tends to be an immediate discussion killer, because it's a direct sign that you are not even interested in listening and arguing the issue so one might as well pull out the flamethrower and hose you down.

[Broomstick]

The guy's said a lot of stupid things, but what's so egregious about 18-year-olds as senators and Presidents? Aren't they generally supposed to be fully-capable adults by that time?

We don't let 18 year olds drink alcohol, so clearly we don't think they're "fully capable adults" at that age. The only reason 18 year olds universally got the vote was because during the Vietnam war the argument was made that if you're old enough to fight and die for your country you should have a vote in how it's run. These days, with no more draft, I'm not at all convinced that the 26th amendment would pass if proposed today.

On top of that, recent scientific research would seem to indicate that, legal rules aside, the human brain does not finish maturing until around 25 on average. People in their late teens/early 20's aren't quite finished yet.

It's hardly as if people over 25 years of age are immune to committing gross acts of foolishness and stupidity. Age is no guarantor of wisdom.

People over 25 years of age didn't invent car surfing, m'kay? People under 25 are more likely to be young, dumb, and full of cum. While age won't guarantee wisdom it's more likely to occur with advancing age, and on top of that, experience at life also counts.

Really, focusing on the age limits for Congress is one of the stupidest responses to what was essentially "What have you done to make your nation a better place?"

[Simon_Jester]

I'm pretty close to 25 years old myself, and there are very few people younger than me I'd vote for as political figures of any importance. At the very least I'd like anyone I vote for to have a college degree, which takes most people until they turn 22 or older right there...

Someone eighteen years old is just coming out of a time when, for their whole life, they were in a state of legally enforced dependency and subordination to their parents, to the school system, and so on. There are learned skills one cannot easily pick up, that almost always have to be picked up after that time to finish a journey into adulthood. Some people never make it, and I don't blame them, because it is a freaking bear to get those skills the hard way.

[Thanas]

How many wars has America started in the Twentieth Century?

Well, let's just look at the first twenty years of that century:

- Cuba and Puerto Rico, U.S. intervention in Cuba and invasion of Puerto Rico in 1898.
- Panama, U.S. interventions in the isthmus go back to the 1846 Mallarino–Bidlack Treaty and intensified after the so-called Watermelon War of 1856. In 1903, Panama seceded from the Republic of Colombia, backed by the U.S. government, amidst the Thousand Days' War. The Panama Canal was under construction by then, and the Panama Canal Zone, under United States sovereignty, was then created (it was handed down to Panama as of 2000).
- Nicaragua, which, after intermittent landings and naval bombardments in the previous decades, was occupied by the U.S. almost continuously from 1912 through 1933.
- Cuba, occupied by the U.S. from 1898-1902 under military governor Leonard Wood, and again from 1906–1909, 1912 and 1917–1922; governed by the terms of the Platt Amendment through 1934.
- Haiti, occupied by the U.S. from 1915–1934, which led to the creation of a new Haitian constitution in 1917 that instituted changes that included an end to the prior ban on land ownership by non-Haitians. Including the First and Second Caco Wars.[3]
- Dominican Republic, action in 1903, 1904 (the Santo Domingo Affair), and 1914; occupied by the U.S. from 1916 to 1924.
- Honduras, where the United Fruit Company and Standard Fruit Company dominated the country's key banana export sector and associated land holdings and railways, saw insertion of American troops in 1903, 1907, 1911, 1912, 1919, 1924 and 1925. Writer O. Henry coined the term "Banana republic" in 1904 to describe Honduras.
- Mexico, The U.S. military involvements with Mexico in this period are related to the same general commercial and political causes, but stand as a special case. The Americans conducted the Border War with Mexico from 1910-1919 for additional reasons: to control the flow of immigrants and refugees from revolutionary Mexico (pacificos), and to counter rebel raids into U.S. territory. The 1914 U.S. occupation of Veracruz, however, was an exercise of armed influence, not an issue of border integrity; it was aimed at cutting off the supplies of German munitions to the government of Mexican leader Victoriano Huerta, whom US President Woodrow Wilson refused to recognize.

The answer is just one.

Nope.

And since when has America gone and complained about getting pounded to a world authority? Zero, 'cause 1) we're tough, and 2) we kinda created the only world authority ever.

The British Empire would like to have a word with you, as would the French and Spanish.

bin Laden blamed America for the problems of the Middle East, when those problems are self-inflicted.

How did the Middle East manage to inflict British/Ottoman rule upon itself?

[Dr. Trainwreck]

You're also being generous by counting the Indian Wars as one war.

He's also being generous by not including things which America didn't start, but meddled in anyway to promote their interests. So you should also count Somalia and a bunch of other places like Greece (indirectly, although I'm not too sure on whether they sent air squadrons over here).

He's also not including domestic shit like the perpetuation of slavery, forced sterilizations, the eugenics movement, the American businessmen who openly were Nazis, etc. Which of course other countries also had, but you can't have both this excuse and American exceptionalism. Or perhaps you can muster the doublethink needed if you are a nationalist.

[Darth Herobrine]

America didn't start the Spanish-American War, Spain did. We back-dated our declaration. And I was focusing, not on wars America was involved in, but wars America started. Pay attention people! As for an eighteen year-old's brain not being fully developed, ever thought that might make them more flexible? I've done my homework on this, and guess what? Canada technically allows an eighteen year-old to become Prime Minster!

I admit that America isn't perfect, but then, we never claimed to be so in the first place.

[Darth Herobrine]

Here's another thing I've made for improving America:

A Bill For An Act Entitled: Security of the Union
Resolved by the U.S. House of Representatives of the United States of America, that the following article is proposed as federal law under the jurisdiction of the Untied States of America, enforceable by Executive action.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that:
Section 1: To provide The United States of America with additional capacity for self-defense, an independent National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established, separate from the authority of the United States Departments of Defense, Homeland Security, and the National Guard state militias.
Section 2: This National Defense Force shall be comprised of volunteer citizens and shall hold the same position as the irregular militias provided for by the Militia Act of 1792. The NDF militia personnel shall be equipped and trained by the Department of Defense for the purpose of coordination and cooperation between these organizations.
Section 3: National Defense Forces shall be divided into Air, Land, and Sea branches.
Section 4: The armaments allowed to NDF militiamen shall include military-grade armor and automatic weapons, but are not limited to these.
Section 5: The NDF militias shall be established in every state and are assigned regions of their respective states.
Section 6: Governors shall have authority to activate their respective states’ NDF units, but control remains with the Defense Force Command established in Section 7.
Section 7: A National Defense Command shall be created to oversee NDF operations and shall be independent of the federal Government; instead it shall be comprised of elected representatives from each militia and a civilian Administration Committee selected by citizens of the states. The selection of these Command members shall not be influenced by the actions of political factions or parties.
Section 8: Funding of the NDF and its Command shall be provided by an initial federal grant of one hundred million dollars from the Department of Homeland Security and all further funding will be provided by the states and by NDF members.
Section 9: The initiation of this act will be the responsibility of the Department of Defense.
Section 10: No riders or earmarks are to be applied to this bill and no alterations that hamper the NDF or its creation are to be added.
Note: This is a national security bill ONLY, so please keep unrelated legislation confined to the proper bills.

Just try and call this tossing pebble in a pond. I still need to submit it though...

P.S. Ottoman rule is a self-inflicted thing, since Turkey is part of the Middle East. One more thing, I consider complaining about America in a debate that only marginally involves the US. Also, America only bullies its allies because they refuse to act like allies.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I admit that America isn't perfect, but then, we never claimed to be so in the first place.

You admit that? Really? tell you what..
Instead of proving how AWESOME America is to the rest of us.
How about you come up with ONE thing you do not like about America? just ONE.
After all you say it isn't Perfect.

[Alkaloid]

We don't let 18 year olds drink alcohol, so clearly we don't think they're "fully capable adults" at that age. The only reason 18 year olds universally got the vote was because during the Vietnam war the argument was made that if you're old enough to fight and die for your country you should have a vote in how it's run. These days, with no more draft, I'm not at all convinced that the 26th amendment would pass if proposed today.

On top of that, recent scientific research would seem to indicate that, legal rules aside, the human brain does not finish maturing until around 25 on average. People in their late teens/early 20's aren't quite finished yet.

Honestly, even if you don't have conscription that argument doesn't hold up. If 18 year olds aren't mentally developed enough to vote or be a member of government, then how can you say they are mentally developed enough to decide they want to join the army/police/fire services etc. If you are allowing someone to join a government organisation that will knowingly and deliberately put its members in considerable physical danger for the benefit of your country, I don't see how you can justify not letting them have exactly the same opportunity to decide how that organisation is used as every other citizen. Don't think 18 is old enough, fine, raise the minimum age of enlistment, don't send soldiers to die in a war when every chance to stop or start it was in someone else's hands.

[Darth Herobrine]

I've already mentioned something I don't like about America: the polarized political system!

[weemadando]

Honest question time.

Are you over 21? I'm guessing no.

Have you ever been outside the US before? I'm guessing no - well, maybe Canada or some gated/walled resort compound somewhere.

Have you had any education beyond high school? Again, I'm going no.

[Lagmonster]

What difference does that make? He's made arguments for a few of his political ideas and what he thinks of history and modern politics; it strikes me that it's unnecessary to delve into who and what he is personally, no?

[Darth Herobrine]

I'm a non-conformist who wants to see his country be respected.

[Crossroads Inc.]

I'm a non-conformist who wants to see his country be respected.

This.. THIS right here shows why you do not understand what is going on.

You worry about America being "bashed" and yet at the same time it's people are deeply respected.
Do you know that the PEOPLE Of Iran love America? The government hates us, but there are millions that would love to have what America has.
In Many countries there are countless people who love America, but just do not like the things our government does.

Your problem is you seem incapable of differentiating between the two.
I asked oyu to name something wrong about America, and what you named (polarized Political systems) is something that ironically has nothing to do what so ever with how the rest of the world views us.

If you want America to be respected, if you are concerned with America "bashing" they why not take a more thoughtful view upon the concerns raised by some of the others here? Why not focus on addressing things that are wrong in America, instead of getting upset at what people are saying?

[Darth Herobrine]

What I'm complaining about is the knee-jerk meaningless response of "America? RAR! U SUCK!"

Also, our polarized political system drives idiotic responses to international events.

[Crossroads Inc.]

What I'm complaining about is the knee-jerk meaningless response of "America? RAR! U SUCK!"d

How many people are saying "RAR U SUCK" however?
Many people here have laid out rather indepth and thoughtful examples of bad things America has done.
There are aspects of America that are bad...

Why not address those? If someone is saying RAR AMERICA SUCK! Why worry about it?

[Darth Herobrine]

What in-depth and thoughtful examples? All I've seen is stuff along the lines of "America suckz". Some incredibly shallow "fact" posts too.

[Thunderfire]

America didn't start the Spanish-American War, Spain did.

No the US started the war when they told them "leave cuba or we send in our military to kick you back to spain."

[LaCroix]

I'm a non-conformist who wants to see his country be respected.

Then you should be aware that respect is earned. You will get an initial pro-bono amount of it, but if you keep on burning it by the ton without earning some of it back, at some point, it's gone.

[Metahive]

A Bill For An Act Entitled: Security of the Union
Resolved by the U.S. House of Representatives of the United States of America, that the following article is proposed as federal law under the jurisdiction of the Untied States of America, enforceable by Executive action.
Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled, that:
Section 1: To provide The United States of America with additional capacity for self-defense, an independent National Defense Force (NDF) shall be established, separate from the authority of the United States Departments of Defense, Homeland Security, and the National Guard state militias.
Section 2: This National Defense Force shall be comprised of volunteer citizens and shall hold the same position as the irregular militias provided for by the Militia Act of 1792. The NDF militia personnel shall be equipped and trained by the Department of Defense for the purpose of coordination and cooperation between these organizations.
Section 3: National Defense Forces shall be divided into Air, Land, and Sea branches.
Section 4: The armaments allowed to NDF militiamen shall include military-grade armor and automatic weapons, but are not limited to these.
Section 5: The NDF militias shall be established in every state and are assigned regions of their respective states.
Section 6: Governors shall have authority to activate their respective states’ NDF units, but control remains with the Defense Force Command established in Section 7.
Section 7: A National Defense Command shall be created to oversee NDF operations and shall be independent of the federal Government; instead it shall be comprised of elected representatives from each militia and a civilian Administration Committee selected by citizens of the states. The selection of these Command members shall not be influenced by the actions of political factions or parties.
Section 8: Funding of the NDF and its Command shall be provided by an initial federal grant of one hundred million dollars from the Department of Homeland Security and all further funding will be provided by the states and by NDF members.
Section 9: The initiation of this act will be the responsibility of the Department of Defense.
Section 10: No riders or earmarks are to be applied to this bill and no alterations that hamper the NDF or its creation are to be added.
Note: This is a national security bill ONLY, so please keep unrelated legislation confined to the proper bills.

What a novel idea, I just think you should name it something more appropriate like, like...oh, National Guard or something.

Just try and call this tossing pebble in a pond. I still need to submit it though...

Yeah, you already have absorbed the political mindset by trying to introduce completely unnecessary redundancies. Do you really think America's problem is that it hasn't enough military when its military budget is already eating up most of the cake that is governmental spending?

P.S. Ottoman rule is a self-inflicted thing, since Turkey is part of the Middle East. One more thing, I consider complaining about America in a debate that only marginally involves the US. Also, America only bullies its allies because they refuse to act like allies.

Know what? Why don't you shut up about things you're pig-ignorant about? Like, uh, anything and everything? We've already got our Bill O'Reillys and Glenn Becks for that.

[Eleas]

What in-depth and thoughtful examples? All I've seen is stuff along the lines of "America suckz".

This is why people are growing testy with you, Herobrine: you're literally the only one interpreting these posts as anything so shallow. I'm not going to go on about that, and I'm not going to castigate you further.

Instead, I'll urge you to visit this thread. Read and reflect. It will likely cause you to wonder why it's full of people "saying [their own country] suckz lol", but really, it's far from it. Acknowledging the faults of one's own country isn't weakness but a sign of maturity, even if (maybe especially if) the person pointing out the faults does so in a less than fawning manner.