Homebrew system thread II, part 2

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

Oooh, normalish people working for the enemy who are afraid to fight us! I LIKE this RPG!

IC:

Larric thanks the acolyte with great politeness and respect.

Then-

"What I would very much like," and Larric sounds surprisingly growly and angry, "is to haul one of them in front of Tamarin and ask her 'have you seen this man?' Not much chance of getting them into the castle without trouble, I'm afraid. We've no crime to hit them with, nothing of that sort... wait. Except the part where they tried to hire someone to beat us up. We had no crime to hit them with."

He looks at Dirt, then smiles at that last part.

[Kaelan]

After first shaking down the criminal to ensure he has no weapons (and cash - transportation fee). Dirt will heft him over his shoulder. "Where to now?"
Looking down at his patched together tunic of Alfred's colours, torn and stained with ogre blood along with other peoples he'll add "Also need to get new top."

[Fiji_Fury]

Dale will be lurking near the castle on the look-out for the others. If you pass that way he will join you and offer what assistance he can. Some plotting and organizing will be in order before much longer and once we have a quiet space to speak he can add some uneasiness to the local sense of "stability" by sharing his experiences at the temple of Valdemiron.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Shaking them (there are two, remember) down to take their weapons and money off them, you mean; one has a dagger and shortsword, and fifteen copper pieces, the other has a thin sword, really a proto- rapier and not as long as they later became, a large knife and about two silver in copper pieces, enough to make them think they had a faint chance of bribing the labourers anyway.

Quite well dressed, so it's probably not random violence. They would be Tamarin's brother in law's friends anyway, the sort of friends prepared to help move a body (which is what it was actually supposed to come to); and two things happen on the way to the castle. First, dale spots the rest of the party. Then, just inside the walls, in the gatehouse in fact, you're stopped by a woman in a steel bikini. D'Avariel.

She doesn't look all that surprised to see you, but I don't think Dirt and Dale have had much to do with her before, if anything- Dale recognises the holy symbol pendant she's wearing; she may look more like a showgirl than a paladin, but that is apparently what she is. Unamiliar in herself, but the type, the pose- something's there.

The gate is beng manned by a mix of men at arms, sherriff's, treasurer's and survivors from the cavern; all of them seem to be deferring to her. Looks you all over, gestures to a side room, 'Ah, mr Smith. I think you could benefit from having a quiet word.'

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

This did have to happen just as I begin to contemplate the mountain of disciplinary writeups I have to deal with for today... [groans]

IC:

Larric isn't a very fast politicker, so this is probably rather obvious to any keen observers in the area: he stops, he thinks it over carefully but quickly. This all takes a couple of seconds during which he visibly looks like he's trying not to give away what he thinks, from basic opinion to response, though part of it happens while d'Avariel's still talking.

One, he's now quite firmly convinced that nothing d'Avariel says is fundamentally honest as he defines honesty- it might be true, but if so that is a convenient circumstance and not a desirable outcome in itself, not for her. He can't just listen to her and expect her to mean the things she says, which is the starting point for his definition of, say, "worthwhile company." He trusts her as far as he could throw her, and she's better at hand to hand combat than he is; she would throw him. Is it possible to trust someone a negative distance? Probably.

Two, on the other hand, she is clearly very very good at worming into good graces, in a hurry.

Three, there are two things d'Avariel might want to share: facts, and opinions.

Four, facts from d'Avariel are inherently suspect, but even knowing what she wants him to think might be good, especially since Larric suspects d'Avariel thinks he is stupid. Although... see footnote.

Five, opinions from d'Avariel are probably better than facts since they're less likely to be outright lies. She wouldn't be what she is if she didn't really believe something, even if that something is "all decency is negotiable, look at me I'm better at high politics than you are!"

Six, he's somewhat irritated by all this, and also about the part where he's pretty sure the same people who just tried to kill his friend were shadowing him, and then trying to hire random people to attack him.



Pursuant to (6) his initial reaction is to want to say "and what do you have to say to me that you don't have to say to Sir Alfred," which he immediately pictures getting met by a witty remark with a side order of double entendre, and therefore curbs his temper and assumes the opposite reaction to his reflex is probably correct.

What he actually says and does is scratch his chin [rustle of stubble], look for a moment in the direction of the soldiers and shrug slightly (Hey, you're the one who decided to start your conversation with a bunch of guards present) "all right, can't hurt."
_________________

OOC MK II:

I'm reminded of a conversation in the fanfic Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality, by Eliezer Yudkowsky. It's about levels of thought- am I showing you a first-level deception, simply trying to mask the truth? Or a second-level deception- is my deception intended to mask the deception with a superficial reaction such as a smile? And so on. This leads to:

So either Severus was in fact modeling Harry as a one-level player, which made Severus himself two-level, and Harry’s three-level move had been successful; or Severus was a four-level player and wanted Harry to think the deception had been successful. Harry, smiling, had asked Professor Quirrell what level he played at, and Professor Quirrell, also smiling, had responded, "One level higher than you."

I'm pretty sure d'Avariel plays at that level, relative to Larric.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Selene D'Avariel is someone else I'm going to have to explain at some point, just as an exercise in the art of storytelling; see if the whys of her background do actually lead logically, in anyone's head but my own, to the front she presents to the world and what is genuinely behind it.

There's no reason for her to tell you any of that at all- and quite a lot of reasons for her not to dwell on it herself for that matter. She'd trade memory- states with Dale in a heartbeat; quite a lot of how she got to be the way she is would be better off forgotten.

As for what she actually believes- well. It's quite hard to be an insincere paladin, but one of Krylanya's gifts is deception.

What she actually says, after looking at Alfred and apparently not seeing much of account- she does sneer, faintly- is 'You can explain it to him.' If Larric's not actively fighting back, leads him to that side room.

One of the limits of her ability to lie is set by a personality quirk; she enjoys playing with fire. As the way she dresses should indicate, also enjoys showing off.

'When you take those two before a court, they'll tell you that they were conned and persuaded into it by a woman in a grey cloak who suggested to them that they could have the lands, and the money, with just a little bit of knife work.' a grey cloak like the one she habitually wears, that would be.

'You must have noticed that Tamarin has insufficient in the way of killer instinct. Do you think it hangs together as a credible story- that someone, for the sake of argument I, tricked them into attempted murder- for her benefit? To harden her, horrify her into becoming faster and nastier and more dangerous, and incidentally resolving a disputed inheritance in her favour?' She says, with a catlike smile.

[Simon_Jester]

OOC:

Selene D'Avariel is someone else I'm going to have to explain at some point, just as an exercise in the art of storytelling; see if the whys of her background do actually lead logically, in anyone's head but my own, to the front she presents to the world and what is genuinely behind it.

Actually, I understand- the problem is not that I don't like her, it's that Larric doesn't like her.

By nature, such as you've hinted at, she is inevitably going to be distrusted by honest and simple men; it's part of the job description. She's probably realized that herself and decided to accept it, I'd think, if she still believes that any such men exist in the world.

And Larric is one of the most honest men she's ever going to meet in her line of work. Although even he understands that she's intelligent and competent.

IC:

'You must have noticed that Tamarin has insufficient in the way of killer instinct. Do you think it hangs together as a credible story- that someone, for the sake of argument I, tricked them into attempted murder- for her benefit? To harden her, horrify her into becoming faster and nastier and more dangerous, and incidentally resolving a disputed inheritance in her favour?' She says, with a catlike smile.

Larric stops to think that over. This takes a while. Then he keeps visibly not saying anything for a couple of seconds longer- if he'd ever heard of Jack Benny he'd love Jack Benny jokes. The ones with the pregnant pauses.

"No, because you know a lot about fighting and you think things through. If you were trying to do that you wouldn't have got four men plus a wizard into it, because you wouldn't have really wanted to get her killed, and it almost did."

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

She has to try not to laugh at that. If she thinks things through now, it's because she's had to learn to in order to survive. Thinks about it for a second, though.

'I could deal with them now, actually. Officially and before divine law, and square the civil side later.' She suggests.

[Simon_Jester]

OOC MK I:

Larric concluded several days ago that d'Avariel's choice of three bits of tinfoil as a combat costume proves she knows how to duck, and by analogy her choice of vocation proves she knows how to think. He fondly hopes that she chooses to do so on a regular basis, because otherwise she's an unusually dangerous idiot in addition to being... descriptors fail him.

OOC MK II:

The subtext to Larric's reply- and d'Avariel is probably able to read part of this out of Larric's posture- is I don't think enough of your character to assume you wouldn't have done it in the first place, but I would LIKE to think you're too clever to try that particular thing for that particular reason; if I'm wrong you're an *unusually* dangerous idiot, and I am perfectly well aware that you're quite likely to bring up your own status as a suspect in order to dispel suspicion. For all I know that's one of your signature tactics.

IC:

"Not so sure that 'dealing with them' right now sounds good. Me, I'm wondering who really hired them, that's what I want to find out. Someone tried to kill a friend of mine, and they don't much care for me either."

OOC MK III:

We may have screwed up bringing them back to the castle, guys. I take as much responsibility for that as anyone, but it does mean we have all sorts of nosy people interfering with our efforts. Like d'Avariel.

[Panzersharkcat]

Meanwhile, Alfred is merely observing and trying to read any subtext between them, in between thinking she's either crazy for wearing so little armor or has some sort of magical protection to prevent people from gutting her in combat.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

'Dame Tamarin is the natural choice for the chamberlain's job- or would be, if she had enough steel in her to do the job the way she sees fit. The inheritance was the lure to trick her brother in law into attacking her; whoever put him up to it? Someone who does not want to see her as chamberlain, who wants the job for themselves or in the hands of a pawn under their control.

Who are her friends and who are her enemies, and what enemies does she have through her friends? Comes back to the usual suspects, does it not- the chamberlain has much to do with how the court and the barony look from the outside. Who needs that kind of a veil drawn over their activities?

She would not be a good drawer of veils, would she? Too straightforward- and one does need a great deal of steel to survive being able to speak truth, destroy reputations and make enemies the way an excessively honest person in that job can do. She has enough of it to do damage, anyway. Who has most to hide, from guilt or from shame?' D'Avariel suggests.


She's talkign to Larric in semi- private, but from what he saw of her Alfred can tell that there's an odd sort of tenseness to the way she moves that suggests, even if she doesn't deliberately show it, has consciously risen above it, that her body remembers what it's like to be hurt. That however it is now, she came up through a hard school and should be carrying a lot more scars than actually show.

She probably reminds Dirt a little of the dark elves in the cavern with that, actually. Less broken inside than most of them, maybe, but the same deliberate, conscious forward posture. Yes, quite a lot of her kit is enchanted. Are the rest of the party saying or suggesting anything?

[Simon_Jester]

Larric's jaw shifts to the left a bit. He nods once and shrugs. "Wish I knew who was being pushed as a chamberlain-to-be, aside from her. Some hints about who'd try it could come from there, maybe."

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

'The man who died in the caverns, the last Chamberlain, did have a son, but he is only a credible pawn- too young and next to no spine at all. Part of the Baron's family favour him.

The treasurer's staff are trying to bribe one of the undersherriffs to take the job; the constable wants it himself.

Tamarin's friends are the court sorceress, which more or less puts her opposite the guild by definition, and most of the old guard who remember her father. Incidentally that Dnorian friend of yours- is he quite all right?'

[Simon_Jester]

Brief pause, Larric mentally archiving that information (with annotations), then trying to gauge the merits of the answer to that last question.

"On the mend. Haven't had a chance to sit down and talk with him for a bit, not sure what he's been up to since we parted ways in town, his business might be troubling him, but he's on the mend. It's been good to have him with us, that's for sure."


SIDE NOTE:

Larric is going to be looking out, whenever he's in town, for any magic that matches the signature or "feel" of the magic he encountered at the site of the attack on Tamarin. Just wanted to mention it. The sort of qualitative sense that allowed us to describe what was probably Aburon casting as "one is vaguely familiar, fast and blurtish- a lot of complexity happening all at once and nearly tripping over itself," back at the end of the first thread.

[Fiji_Fury]

Dale grimaces as D'Avriel questions his status. He's having a very bad day, and his ability to hide that fact is rather thin at the moment. One bit of complex bad news after another has been piling up and he's thoroughly confused about who's who in Qulan and what the political situation is like. Details are entirely absent and those details seem likely to kill him and his companions unless they start becoming sorted out.

"I am well as can be expected," offers Dale. "There is much that must needs be discussed, though not just yet it appears."

After thinking for a moment he continues.

"Tell me three things if you will Dame D'Avriel:
1) Who do you suspect is behind these attacks you and Larric are discussing?
2) What is your assessment of the preists of Valdemiron and who do they align with in the political turmoil of late?
3) What do you have to gain by being seen with us?"

That last question is not meant to be rude, but it will almost certainly come out that way. After Dale's experience at the temple of Valdemiron, he's edgy and can see some maneuvering. D'Avriel probably has a much better read on the situation and our party than Dale possibly can so let's rattle the tree a little and see what falls out. If nothing else, Larric can parlay and blame Dale's rudeness on exhaustion and mental disorientation (neither of which would be a lie either...)

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

'I'll start in the middle there.' She says. 'Valdemiron- myself and my colleagues were tasked with coming here to rebuild, both temples and lost faith. I am an outsider, I just find my feet very quickly, that's all.

I have found very little good done by them, or to say about them. They're part of the problem, blundering idiots far more interested in being in charge than in actually doing anything useful. I also begin to suspect your people in particular were backed into a corner, given impossible if not blasphemous jobs to do by the Valdemironi.

Domestic politics- could be anyone.' she waves a hand. 'I predict that a scapegoat will be found, though, and all the sordid backstairs deals, and murders and betrayals, will be pinned on them- so everyone else can agree to pretend their own crimes don't matter, and all the private hatreds can subside just under the surface.

For this particular one, the treasurer's men. Not the family itself but the junior officers of court. Look among them.

You are heroes, you know. Also suspected of being dangerously insane. I like people who admit to that.'

[Simon_Jester]

Behind the eyes, Larric's weighing that, and remembering:

-The chamberlain is responsible for managing household affairs, yes? That means he (or she) is very much tied in to political scheming and financial affairs- exactly the sort of person in a position to blow your conspiracy sky-high.
-The constable (in effect he's deVerett's "general," the man responsible for coordinating the bulk of his troops and defending the castle) was trying to bring Tamarin into his orbit by pressuring her to marry one of his relations. That plan probably failed rather badly once Tamarin got into a position to bend the baron's ear before the constable did.
-The treasurer could certainly want a sympathetic chamberlain to cover up any questionable expenditures he's made, as could any number of his men... but could mere hirelings control a puppet?

Thinks that over for a bit. Then Larric sighs. "When everyone's dancing in circles, walking in a straight line makes you look mad. Anyhow, I think Sir Alfred and me would like to have a word of our own with these two; for myself, I'd like to be sure Tamarin's seen them before."

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

In theory yes, that is the chamberlain's job, but in practise it has spread away from some aspects of that, and into others. Must be svartalfven influence- household affairs tends to include protocol and espionage, depending on who's in the job.

Control- depends quite a lot on the respective qualities of the hirelings and the puppet. Most of the great offices of court have sub- officers, such as the sherriff and the undersheriffs; specific responsibilities often shift from person to person depending, for instance a surprisingly large amount of the work of what in Britain would be the health and safety executive, the trading standards agency, and consumer protection in general is done by the court, and could be the treasurer's or the chamberlain's depending.

In principle no, someone weak enough to be such a puppet would at least be obviously so, and probably unfit for the job. In practise, depends on the other forces in play, some of whom would welome and prop up a weak puppet- the better to carry on dirty business as usual.

She's willing to let you go at that; heading on into the castle?

[Simon_Jester]

Larric attempts to assess the situation using his limited skills and so far moderately reliableish horse sense.

Does he think he can get the two unconscious and anesthetized men in to where Tamarin is resting? For that matter, is Tamarin even awake? Larric realizes he had better go check.

[Eleventh Century Remnant]

Provided you can persuade Dirt to sling them over his shoulder and not drag them with their heads bouncing along the ground, yes. (He probably wouldn't anyway- it might damage the instruments.)

[Simon_Jester]

Okay then.

Mother Pola is probably startled by this; Larric comes in asking if Tamarin is conscious. If so, he and Sir Alfred pull down one of the stunned thugs and ask her "have you seen this man?"

[Simon_Jester]

Er, assuming Panzer is on board with this, anyway. Sorry, got carried away.

[Panzersharkcat]

(OOC: Sure, why not.)

[Fiji_Fury]

I'll trail the rest of you keeping my eyes open. I'm expecting a bag of exploding snakes at any moment now...

OOC: The political situation is NASTY. I'm sure we can discuss how it could take a turn for the worse, but things are geniunely bad at the moment in Qulan. We're being pulled into the web here, whether intentionally as a trap or by D'Avriel and some others as foils for other forces. Buckle up because this is going to get fugly.

IC: Dale scans the faces of those we pass, looking for signs of recognition. He's trying to carefully log the reactions and any heraldry to help distinguish sides in this mess. Basically, With Alfred and Larric up front and Dirt carrying the limp, unconscious agents, Dale is acting as rear-guard and frankly expecting shenanigans. Given the rest of the day, there is a near literary imperative for something untoward to happen.... now there is an unbalanced thought if ever there was one. Maybe this "madness" claim about Dale isn't so far off despite what he's thought up until recently.

If given a moment to speak with Larric, he'll offer this: "Those who are considered 'mad' are often underestimated by others. Given the snake pit we find ourselves in, being underestimated could be far from the worst of fates in the near future. Perhaps we can cultivate such an impression to our advantage?" A quick look at Dirt implies that most of the work is already done. After all, it would be a bizarre story that might begin with: 'A knight, a wizard, a priest and an ogre walk into a tavern...'

[Kaelan]

Plots within plots....

Grumbling whilst carrying our two new fools behind Larric & Co.

"Still say first plan best. Dig hole, put 'em inside, fill hole. Alfred take over. If anybody not like this, make second hole."

Part of the appeal to leave the svartalfven was to get away from all the back stabbing. Ogre plotting is much more straight forward and usually involves taking an axe to somebody in full view with obvious intent (i.e. 'Me now boss' - thwak!).