The economist: Time for Obama to man up

[lazerus]

doing what some people suggest would more or less be a political suicide not just for Obama but the whole democratic party and that's assuming Cuba was even willing to help in the first place.

Because five years and running of centerist spinelessness, cowardice, and failure to stand up to the Republican party is totally making me want to vote democrat. I voted for him in the last election for one reason and one reason only—his opponent was insane. If Obama had been running against an even moderately competent opponent, I would have voted Republican. Obama won by virtue of the other side showing up to the game drunk and ranting about how black people stole their wallet.

[Scrib]

doing what some people suggest would more or less be a political suicide not just for Obama but the whole democratic party and that's assuming Cuba was even willing to help in the first place.

Because five years and running of centerist spinelessness, cowardice, and failure to stand up to the Republican party is totally making me want to vote democrat. I voted for him in the last election for one reason and one reason only—his opponent was insane. If Obama had been running against an even moderately competent opponent, I would have voted Republican. Obama won by virtue of the other side showing up to the game drunk and ranting about how black people stole their wallet.

But...you voted for him right? And the next time some other Republican comes around you think they're not gonna do everything they can to paint him -YMMV on if they even have to try that hard-as crazy or a threat to your immediate interests? And more importantly: you don't think that this'll be the narrative for everyone else?

[Grumman]

Here's an idea: President Obama could single out an individual held at Gitmo, and speak to the press about this individual, explaining who he is, that he has committed no crime, and is not associated with Al-Qaeda, yet he is being unlawfully imprisoned at Gitmo. He could shame Congress into doing the right thing and releasing this individual.

Then he could do it again for another detainee.

doing what some people suggest would more or less be a political suicide not just for Obama but the whole democratic party and that's assuming Cuba was even willing to help in the first place.

Which is worse, for the Democratic Party to die, or for it to deserve to die?

[Thanas]

Here's an idea: President Obama could single out an individual held at Gitmo, and speak to the press about this individual, explaining who he is, that he has committed no crime, and is not associated with Al-Qaeda, yet he is being unlawfully imprisoned at Gitmo. He could shame Congress into doing the right thing and releasing this individual.

Then he could do it again for another detainee.

Obama could do that, but he has shown a complete unwillingness to put anything on the line for human rights.

[Losonti Tokash]

It's funny, because you actually think that's true! It's not, obviously, but why let reality interfere with an opportunity to feel smug ?

[Aaron MkII]

Here's an idea: President Obama could single out an individual held at Gitmo, and speak to the press about this individual, explaining who he is, that he has committed no crime, and is not associated with Al-Qaeda, yet he is being unlawfully imprisoned at Gitmo. He could shame Congress into doing the right thing and releasing this individual.

Then he could do it again for another detainee.

Obama could do that, but he has shown a complete unwillingness to put anything on the line for human rights.

He got rid of DADT and the Justice Department has been instructed to cease defending DOMA, so he has. N&P is a circlejerk as it is, so I think we can afford to give him the credit he's due.

[Thanas]

I suppose I should have qualified that with "except when it was the political expedient thing to do", my apologies.

[Aaron MkII]

Fair enough.

[Losonti Tokash]

I suppose I should have qualified that with "except when it was the political expedient thing to do", my apologies.

How convenient for Obama that he, someone with no lawmaking ability in a democratic republic, can only do things that either have majority support or very limited resistance.

[The Yosemite Bear]

Well since congress legislativly blocked the executive order closing hte facility, can we have them all tried for war crimes?

[Flagg]

I suppose I should have qualified that with "except when it was the political expedient thing to do", my apologies.

How convenient for Obama that he, someone with no lawmaking ability in a democratic republic, can only do things that either have majority support or very limited resistance.

No, see he has to MAN UP and just tell them to do stuff. Then they will totally do stuff. I'm sure of it.

[Zaune]

Quick question from a quasi-outside observer. (Being married to a US citizen and myself a citizen of a US client state, I think I can claim that yes, this is my problem.) Which do you think is worse, a Republican administration or a Democrat administration that's let the Republicans ride roughshod over them on almost every single issue?

[Flagg]

Quick question from a quasi-outside observer. (Being married to a US citizen and myself a citizen of a US client state, I think I can claim that yes, this is my problem.) Which do you think is worse, a Republican administration or a Democrat administration that's let the Republicans ride roughshod over them on almost every single issue?

A republican would be worse. And I love how Obama just "lets" them not do anything. As opposed to what exactly? Dissolving the congress using the military?

[Losonti Tokash]

I dunno, i guess a fictional administration you just made up could be pretty bad.

[Zaune]

Maybe I should clarify that by "administration" I mean the Democrats in the House and Senate as well as Obama. They didn't kick up much of a fuss when he folded like a cheap deckchair.

Besides, don't tell me the President can't find ways to make a Senator or Representative's life unpleasant if they don't vote how he wants them to vote, even if you don't have the same kind of party whip system we do.

[Flagg]

Maybe I should clarify that by "administration" I mean the Democrats in the House and Senate as well as Obama. They didn't kick up much of a fuss when he folded like a cheap deckchair.

Besides, don't tell me the President can't find ways to make a Senator or Representative's life unpleasant if they don't vote how he wants them to vote, even if you don't have the same kind of party whip system we do.

Wait, what? You don't understand American politics, please depart at the nearest exit.

[Thanas]

I suppose I should have qualified that with "except when it was the political expedient thing to do", my apologies.

How convenient for Obama that he, someone with no lawmaking ability in a democratic republic, can only do things that either have majority support or very limited resistance.

How convenient for him that he has never tried to do anything, except sign some executive order and then sacrifice that "commitment" in a bargain as soon as possible. How convenient that he has not even campaigned on the issue and how convenient that his administration has so far opposed judicial challenges or basic things like red cross access or independent UN observers. None of that falls under the "I tried my best" category but all of it falls under the "Don't care/not gonna move until I am forced to do something" category.

[Flagg]

I suppose I should have qualified that with "except when it was the political expedient thing to do", my apologies.

How convenient for Obama that he, someone with no lawmaking ability in a democratic republic, can only do things that either have majority support or very limited resistance.

How convenient for him that he has never tried to do anything, except sign some executive order and then sacrifice that "commitment" in a bargain as soon as possible. How convenient that he has not even campaigned on the issue and how convenient that his administration has so far opposed judicial challenges or basic things like red cross access or independent UN observers. None of that falls under the "I tried my best" category but all of it falls under the "Don't care/not gonna move until I am forced to do something" category.

So he should keep putting himself on the line to be embarrassed and politically weakened by a congress that will halt every action he takes that "helps the terrorists?" Because that's what would happen and that's how it would be framed.

[Losonti Tokash]

I like how none of that's true, but it wouldn't matter because you already have excuses for the things he has accomplished so that none of them count anyway.

[Dr. Trainwreck]

Which is worse, for the Democratic Party to die, or for it to deserve to die?

Absolutely the latter. Dead parties are replaced, and new parties are more faithful to their base. Dead-to-be parties take up space and voting power. Evolution via natural selection can and should happen to political parties often.

[Thanas]

I like how none of that's true

Your failure to notice reality is pretty well known. Skip down, it provides links and evidence.

Your turn.

[Losonti Tokash]

Sweet, it straight away says something factually incorrect and continues from there.

[Thanas]

Wow, what a rebuttal.

[Losonti Tokash]

Only giving you the effort you're due.

[Alyrium Denryle]

Quick question from a quasi-outside observer. (Being married to a US citizen and myself a citizen of a US client state, I think I can claim that yes, this is my problem.) Which do you think is worse, a Republican administration or a Democrat administration that's let the Republicans ride roughshod over them on almost every single issue?

A republican would be worse. And I love how Obama just "lets" them not do anything. As opposed to what exactly? Dissolving the congress using the military?

No, but there are things he can do. For example, he could have sat down with the senate majority leader and say "Dude, seriously. No more handshake deals. Actually change the rules of the senate to neuter the power of the GOP fillibuster like you were threatening to do. Actually make them talk for hours on end, rather than simply declare a fillibuster.". That would have gone a long way toward ending gridlock.

He could shame congress as well. He has unlimited press access. He could get up there and be like "We have been trying to pass X, which would do Y. Here are the senators who voted against it." like Hurricane Sandy emergency relief.

There are plenty of ways he can make them all fucking suffer.