So, New Xbox Reveal In About 14 Hours.

[Losonti Tokash]

It certainly didn't happen while I was watching it, and has never happened despite the many many times my friends have tried to fuck with me by yelling commands through the speakers.

[bilateralrope]

Any word on what MS is doing to prevent someone transferring a game to their account without permission from the owner of the person they are taking the game from ?

Isn't that circular?

I don't see how it's circular logic. Could you elaborate ?

[Stark]

Since I think it works for both, I'm not sure that's possible.

And declaring something a cash grab and saying we know its a cash grab because its a cash grab and thus they will grab all the cash is pretty circular to me. Given the hilarious degree of uninformed rumour bullshit that's been flying around for months I'm happy to wait and see. The article I read this morning suggested that ownership is portable, and but the exact terms and in particular the price isn't available. The ratio of fee to games on demand price is more interesting to me.

[Shinova]

More than half of my console game library is secondhand so attaching a fee to second-hand games is a turn-off for me. I like being able to let friends borrow one of my games so they can try it out and buy it for themselves if they like it.

Now Microsoft are denying such a thing, but another official is confirming it.

[bilateralrope]

Since I think it works for both, I'm not sure that's possible.

And declaring something a cash grab and saying we know its a cash grab because its a cash grab and thus they will grab all the cash is pretty circular to me.

That would be circular. But that is not the argument I'm making. My logic is:
1 - Microsoft is requiring a fee to be paid for second hand sales.
2 - I assume this is a cash grab because I can't think of any other reason to require this fee.
3 - Because MS is doing this for the money, any method that lets people bypass the second hand fee would be undesirable for Microsoft. Especially a method that anyone could do.

My points only depend on previous points. For it to be circular, one of my points would need to depend on a later point.

Given the hilarious degree of uninformed rumour bullshit that's been flying around for months I'm happy to wait and see. The article I read this morning suggested that ownership is portable, and but the exact terms and in particular the price isn't available. The ratio of fee to games on demand price is more interesting to me.

Agreed.

Did you run into any rumors that were more ridiculous than requiring a Kinect camera to be attached at all times ?

More than half of my console game library is secondhand so attaching a fee to second-hand games is a turn-off for me.

When you bought second hand, did you usually buy from a store or did you buy directly from the previous owner ?

[Stark]

But that's what I mean. If you don't start from the idea it's a cash grab it could just be a way to migrate disk-free ownership, and depending on costs that could actually be quite useful. I'm curious how the uninstalling works and if I could uninstall a game and lend it to a friend.

[Gandalf]

More than half of my console game library is secondhand so attaching a fee to second-hand games is a turn-off for me.

When you bought second hand, did you usually buy from a store or did you buy directly from the previous owner ?

I buy all of my second hand stuff from stores like EB. Friends just trade games with me when we're done.

If there's a fee involved, then I have no reason to get this.

[bilateralrope]

More than half of my console game library is secondhand so attaching a fee to second-hand games is a turn-off for me.

When you bought second hand, did you usually buy from a store or did you buy directly from the previous owner ?

I buy all of my second hand stuff from stores like EB. Friends just trade games with me when we're done.

If there's a fee involved, then I have no reason to get this.

If the fee is reasonable I don't see it affecting your purchases from stores much. The amount you pay EB will go down to compensate for you having to pay the fee to Microsoft. Though the security measures put in place to prevent someone paying the fee to steal the game off someone else, or selling the same second hand key multiple times, could be a different story.

Trading with your friends shouldn't be harmed by the security. Though the fee will be a problem.

But that's what I mean. If you don't start from the idea it's a cash grab it could just be a way to migrate disk-free ownership, and depending on costs that could actually be quite useful. I'm curious how the uninstalling works and if I could uninstall a game and lend it to a friend.

If the fee can be bypassed so easily, what is the point of Microsoft charging a fee in the first place ?

Still, time will tell. Especially when Microsoft can change the rules at any time with an update.

[Stark]

You're still doing it. If its not meant to be a cash grab and simply move ownership away from disks to digital rights, someone giving their rights to another person isn't 'defeating the system'. Maybe it's like authorizing and de authorizing a computer for drm media etc.

In particular, note that if they DIDN'T do something like this diskless play would simply lead to massive piracy. But regardless, if its a few bucks who cares; it's if the 'fee' is some sizble fraction of buying the game that it would be a problem to me.

Edit
Check this out cnet article admits details are vague but suggests the information is related to moving ownership. In particular I'd be surprised if your profile using it on a different box would need to pay, since it is very similar to XBLA rights (which my wife and I constantly spliot). Until revokation and actual cost is released its difficult to say what impact it will have.

[Stark]

Actually, did they talk about the console using remote media sources and its compatibility with sub formats? Xbox might save me money.

[chitoryu12]

Looking at my library of 360 games, I can't say I'm going to be one of the first people to run out and buy one. Lack of backwards compatibility is a big turn-off for me.

[bilateralrope]

But regardless, if its a few bucks who cares; it's if the 'fee' is some sizble fraction of buying the game that it would be a problem to me.

In the end, this is all that really matters to the consumer. So I'll concede this argument.

In particular I'd be surprised if your profile using it on a different box would need to pay, since it is very similar to XBLA rights (which my wife and I constantly spliot).

Agreed. I've been picturing something like Steam where the hardware doesn't matter, only the account the game is linked to. The only significant difference being the ability to sell the game second hand.

I also just remembered reading this blog post about DRM, the key point of it being that DRM is not about stopping piracy. It's about leverage. For the Xbox One, this would be giving Microsoft leverage over retail stores. If that is the plan, consumers being able to bypass the fee when moving the game from one account to another is irrelevant.

The only question is if this leverage will be good for consumers or not.

[Jub]

That sure seems to have gone over less well than Microsoft would have liked it to. It's one thing to have a lackluster show, but most shows don't actively make current fans of your product mad at you. It gets even better when you caused your competitors stock to spike.

[Stark]

Looking at my library of 360 games, I can't say I'm going to be one of the first people to run out and buy one. Lack of backwards compatibility is a big turn-off for me.

Apparently backwards compatibility for the 360 was a huge hassle and they killed it off as soon as they could. PS3 backwards compatibility was expensive and removed. People have wondered if XBL will have game streaming like PS4 does, but I just don't think anyone considers it important anymore.

What makes me curious is whether MS being so bad at communicating important things about their new model is intentional to drive discussion or just a fuckup that poisons the message. I mean look at all the unclear information that has now replaced all the outright fiction and misinformation that was around before.

[Anacronian]

It certainly didn't happen while I was watching it, and has never happened despite the many many times my friends have tried to fuck with me by yelling commands through the speakers.

Well it did happen to a lot of people it seems.

Source.

[Stark]

Maybe they should have actually run the Kinect tuner like the little card tells you to? It's probably clueless idiots not setting up the space so it catches delayed echoes and thinks they're speech. Never happens to me.

[Zac Naloen]

That's exactly what it is, untuned or poorly tuned kinects. Remember you have to have the volume at a reasonable level as well, or it won't function well. I wonder how many people jacked the volume up while watching the event.

You should retune it everytime you move the kinect as well as it really is very sensitive.

[Vendetta]

Apparently one of the backend changes to XBL will mean that multiplayer sessions are all dedicated server based. Don't know whether that's just for firstparty titles, but they are moving from a global infrastructure of 15,000 servers to 300,000 for the One launch, so they may have capacity for all.

[Admiral Drason]

Since it backfilters the audio, doesn't sound real plausible to me. I can watch a movie which features people saying things like STOP just fine.

I mean I know I'm just nobody and Kotaku is an entirely authoritative source with a history of not making shit up ever, but still.

This actually did happen to me about 3 times while watching the stream, it kicked me out of the live stream when but I was able to jump right back in a matter of seconds with my controller.

[FedRebel]

Looking at my library of 360 games, I can't say I'm going to be one of the first people to run out and buy one. Lack of backwards compatibility is a big turn-off for me.

Ditto, I justified the Wii since I could still play Gamecube on it..and I still enjoy Rogue Squadron from time to time. I justified the 360 for much the same reason.

Sony lost me when they yanked BC from the PS3, because I want to have a 1-1 replacement instead of having to make additional shelf space or retire a system that I'll regret (I miss Goldeneye64) and backwards compatibility makes that possible, without it...why? Also the 1-1 trade will reduce the investment on the new console to something more digestible.

Putting it another way, let's say after playing Halo 5 I'm feeling nostalgic and want to replay the previous games, on The One...I can't and that's shame, part of the replay factor with franchises is being able to go back to previous titles with a different perspective.

[Vendetta]

Backwards compatibility is a useful early feature whilst the console's own library builds up, but over the whole lifecycle of the console it's not really make or break, and with the radical change in architecture in both the Xbox One and PS4 it's probably more cost than it's worth to introduce it.

Plus, y'know, they've figured out they can upscale and polish up last gen games and resell them as HD editions, why give people something they've demonstrated an eagerness to pay for?

[Lagmonster]

In considering backwards compatability, how big is the 'nostalgia market', anyway? It could be that companies have done their homework and have decided that they don't lose anything significant by alienating a few of the class of "poorer people who also care about replaying old games", many of whom will reverse their decision inevitably anyway because of IP loyalty or peer pressure.

Frankly, from the perspective of an older, middle-class North American, I can say that nothing Microsoft could do to me short of something illegal matters, because the costs involved aren't high enough to deter me from having one so that me/my wife/my son can play whatever the newest games are. I'm what Rob Fahey was talking about when he commented on the power of the contented majority.

[Losonti Tokash]

It's very small, which is why the PS3 hasn't has backwards compatibility for years. The 360 still supports it since it's just software emulation and not an actual Xbox crammed inside like the PS3 was, but they stopped adding or updating emulation profiles a while back.

[Zac Naloen]

Right now I'm actually struggling to understand how much geeks are losing their shit over the details of this annoucement.

They absolutely hate it. So far for me it seems to do everything PS4 can do minus gaikai and then loads of other features.

Whereas all the features in the PS4 all the features, besides games, that they announced I will basically just ignore.


I suppose i'm just not that precious about devices that can do more than one thing??

[Stark]

It even has a list of games (and exclusives) which I believe poor Sony couldn't manage.

Anyway, what about the important stuff - achievements? Apparently they changed the way they work because of heaps of stuff devs wanted to do but couldn't (cross-game stuff, granular or custom stuff, etc).