BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

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BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Crossroads Inc. »

Interesting Times
As the Boy Scouts of America prepares to vote tomorrow on a proposal that would change its long-standing policy of excluding gay boys from Scout units, the executive director of Scouts for Equality, a gay rights advocacy group, is hopeful that the proposal will pass--but says this is just the first step.

“This is a good step in the right direction, we want youth protection throughout the entire program, and it looks we'll be able to see that on the 23rd,” executive director Zach Wahls tells Top Line. “But after that, we have to make sure that we are telling Scouts that when you turn 18 you are still welcome in the program.”

The proposal up for vote will not change the BSA's policy of banning gay adult leaders. To Wahls, changing that policy is not just political, it's personal.
“As the straight Eagle Scout son of a lesbian couple, I know exactly how important lifting the ban on adults is," he says. "I got to see first-hand when I was growing up in Iowa the impact that great, wise, loving parents could have in the lives of my Scouters.”
In addition to advocating for policy changes, Wahls says a big focus of his organization’s mission is to increase understanding around LGBT issues, one conversation at a time.

"What we are seeing is the effect of people having conversations and moving past fear," Wahls says. "When we talk about homophobia, literally the fear around this, is people can have person-to-person conversations...and understand that there isn't anything to be afraid of."
For more of the interview with Wahls, including his thoughts on what basketball player Jason Collins’ announcement that he’s gay means for the LGBT movement, check out this episode of Top Line.

ABC's Alexandra Dukakis, Eric Wray, Paul Dougherty, and Pat French contributed to this episode.
Good job for the Boy Scouts of America. I have been hearing rumors about this for a while, but it is good to see them moving forward!
As far the Right?
Well reading some of the comments tells us all we need to know :P
It is the mentality of the courts today to protect the minority. But who is going to protect the majority from the minority? Today, a minority can go to court and overturn the will of the people without due process. Once a judge says it, that settles it. The judiciary has become a despotic bunch just as Thomas Jefferson predicted they would. They were never intended to be the final say on all things constitutional. But the judiciary has expanded its powers beyond the intent of the Constitution.
Same thing my wife and I have been wondering about for several years. Supposedly moral and ethical people have quit standiing up for what is right/normal. As a former scout I can appreciate the things I learned physically and mentally. For the immoral, unethical and probably communistic groups to take over they have to destroy the moral fiber of this nation and that is exactly what they are doing. Just take a look at the people in the more important governmental roles in this country! I will say ome more thing; if homosexuality were normal the homosexual/lesbian groups wouldn't have to work/fight so hard for it. Just take a look at nature and you will see what is normal or not. One more; the people in office need to be removed. The supposed moral people in office need to be removed as they don't have the backbone to stand up against the immoral, perverted groups.
Being immoral should be looked down upon. Homosexuality was a crime and then just a mental illness up until the last few decades. Children do not need to be around perverts who want to recruit little boys. We know what you really want, recruit little boys the way most of you were recruited, by being molested.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Metahive »

But who is going to protect the majority from the minority?
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I think this single sentence more than any other sums up what's wrong with the rightard's mode of thinking.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Darth Lucifer »

The thing I'm afraid of is a gay scout being in a situation of some sort and cannot rely on the guidance, counsel or help of his scoutmaster/leaders for whatever reason...in my mind this is a set-up to single out gay youth. Though it seems like a good idea on the surface, I don't like it. Too much potential for bullying and other religious gay-bashing. I just feel that there should be gay leaders allowed too so that there's someone to go who's knowledgeable and sympathetic about gays and the issues affecting them.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

Darth Lucifer wrote:The thing I'm afraid of is a gay scout being in a situation of some sort and cannot rely on the guidance, counsel or help of his scoutmaster/leaders for whatever reason...in my mind this is a set-up to single out gay youth. Though it seems like a good idea on the surface, I don't like it. Too much potential for bullying and other religious gay-bashing. I just feel that there should be gay leaders allowed too so that there's someone to go who's knowledgeable and sympathetic about gays and the issues affecting them.
I can predict this being solved in a few years. It's all about incremental changes.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by PKRudeBoy »

Darth Lucifer wrote:The thing I'm afraid of is a gay scout being in a situation of some sort and cannot rely on the guidance, counsel or help of his scoutmaster/leaders for whatever reason...in my mind this is a set-up to single out gay youth. Though it seems like a good idea on the surface, I don't like it. Too much potential for bullying and other religious gay-bashing. I just feel that there should be gay leaders allowed too so that there's someone to go who's knowledgeable and sympathetic about gays and the issues affecting them.
Really? The BSA makes changes that people have been pushing for them to make for well over a decade and the first conclusion you jump to is 'IT'S A TRAP!' Ideally they would let gay adults in too, but some improvement is better then none especially since letting gay youth in is more important, since it is after all a youth organization.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Starglider »

Darth Lucifer wrote:I just feel that there should be gay leaders allowed too so that there's someone to go who's knowledgeable and sympathetic about gays and the issues affecting them.
Would that actually work though? What are the chances of a gay leader (who is ok with their sexuality being public and declared so that they can be approached like this) being nearby and available for a kid to 'go to'? Maybe in a city but isn't the density too low elsewhere for that to be likely? Obviously blanket exclusion of homosexuals from this role is wrong on moral grounds but I don't think this is a very strong argument to support lifting the ban.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Dalton »

It's official, the BSA have voted to allow gay scouts (but not leaders).
The Boy Scouts of America voted on Thursday to end its controversial policy banning gay kids and teens from joining one of the nation's most popular youth organizations, ditching membership guidelines that had roiled the group in recent years.
Over 60 percent of the The National Council of 1,400 delegates from Scouting across the country voted to lift the ban, BSA officials said.
"Today, following this review, the most comprehensive listening exercise in Scouting's history the approximate 1,400 voting members of the Boy Scouts of America's National Council approved a resolution to remove the restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation alone," the BSA said in a statement following the vote.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Flagg »

When are they going to allow atheists?
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by MrDakka »

Flagg wrote:When are they going to allow atheists?
Probably never. They don't even allow agnostics in.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Grandmaster Jogurt »

How much word is there on the protections offered? Is it just allowing them in or is there more? The Girl Scouts don't just let lesbians, trans girls, etc in but actively protect them, including as much help as is needed to avoid being outed.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by The Duchess of Zeon »

I haven't seen a reference to any protections at all and I understand at least some people chose to support it so they could "witness" to young gay boys to save them from homosexuality by example, thus the exclusion of gay adults.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by MrDakka »

The Duchess of Zeon wrote:I haven't seen a reference to any protections at all and I understand at least some people chose to support it so they could "witness" to young gay boys to save them from homosexuality by example, thus the exclusion of gay adults.
That's pretty sneaky. Hopefully they'll catch up with the times
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Ahriman238 »

When I was last with the organization, some time before the recent scandals even, we were pretty paranoid about never letting an adult leader alone with a boy, to never allow abuse or the accusation of abuse to surface.

Fair or not (it's not, let there be no doubt) there's still a tendency to assume a homosexual adult in a position of authority over underage boys will abuse his power for sex. I don't expect to see gay adult leaders for a long time, until general education and experience take hold.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Flagg »

MrDakka wrote:
Flagg wrote:When are they going to allow atheists?
Probably never. They don't even allow agnostics in.
So according to the BSA (bigoted shit association) it's OK to be gay. Until you're 18 then get the fuck out. Same with you atheists and agnostics!
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Raw Shark »

Flagg wrote:
MrDakka wrote:
Flagg wrote:When are they going to allow atheists?
Probably never. They don't even allow agnostics in.
So according to the BSA (bigoted shit association) it's OK to be gay. Until you're 18 then get the fuck out. Same with you atheists and agnostics!
Everybody has to get the fuck out when they're 18. Them's the rules. Pretty much everybody who isn't some kind of problem (eg: we had this one really drunk guy who totally wanted to be involved and seemed really sincere but was just wasted all the time and not really a great influence on 12-year-olds) is then encouraged to stay involved as an adult leader after that.

PS- I was an outspoken Agnostic for about 1/2 of my career in the Boy Scouts. Your ability to get away with that shit depends on the troop.

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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Darth Lucifer »

PKRudeBoy wrote:Really? The BSA makes changes that people have been pushing for them to make for well over a decade and the first conclusion you jump to is 'IT'S A TRAP!' Ideally they would let gay adults in too, but some improvement is better then none especially since letting gay youth in is more important, since it is after all a youth organization.
The Duchess of Zeon wrote:....I understand at least some people chose to support it so they could "witness" to young gay boys to save them from homosexuality by example, thus the exclusion of gay adults.
What she said. Are you really that ignorant of the Fundie playbook to discount the possibility of something like an unwanted intervention leveled against some gay scout so they can PREY TEH GHEY AWAY?
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Post by Flagg »

They already do it to convert Mormons. I know, I was there.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Adam Reynolds »

Flagg wrote:They already do it to convert Mormons. I know, I was there.
Are you referring to converting Mormons to mainstream Christianity or converting other Christians into Mormonism? I had thought that the Mormon Church was a major factor in the modern BSA running troops through their various wards.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Flagg »

Adamskywalker007 wrote:
Flagg wrote:They already do it to convert Mormons. I know, I was there.
Are you referring to converting Mormons to mainstream Christianity or converting other Christians into Mormonism? I had thought that the Mormon Church was a major factor in the modern BSA running troops through their various wards.
Convert people to Mormonism.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Raw Shark »

Flagg wrote:
Adamskywalker007 wrote:
Flagg wrote:They already do it to convert Mormons. I know, I was there.
Are you referring to converting Mormons to mainstream Christianity or converting other Christians into Mormonism? I had thought that the Mormon Church was a major factor in the modern BSA running troops through their various wards.
Convert people to Mormonism.
There was none of that in my troop. We met in the basement of a Catholic church, next door to AA, and nobody ever said anything to me about Mormonism. I wasn't even aware of the LDS/BSA connection until I read about it in the news midway through my career in the organization.

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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by CarsonPalmer »

I didn't even know about that either. At least in NJ and PA, a lot of Boy Scout troops are run out of Catholic parishes but they are less conversion tools than outlets for kids who already go to that church.

Interesting.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Raw Shark »

CarsonPalmer wrote:I didn't even know about that either. At least in NJ and PA, a lot of Boy Scout troops are run out of Catholic parishes but they are less conversion tools than outlets for kids who already go to that church.

Interesting.
Going to the Catholic church that we met at wasn't a requirement for my Troop (though it did happen to be the one I attended before I quit religion, along with probably 2/3 of the troop because Massachusetts), they just let us use the space because we asked nicely and did a free yearly clean-up / repaint of their grounds, fences, etc.

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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by CarsonPalmer »

Raw Shark wrote:
CarsonPalmer wrote:I didn't even know about that either. At least in NJ and PA, a lot of Boy Scout troops are run out of Catholic parishes but they are less conversion tools than outlets for kids who already go to that church.

Interesting.
Going to the Catholic church that we met at wasn't a requirement for my Troop (though it did happen to be the one I attended before I quit religion, along with probably 2/3 of the troop because Massachusetts), they just let us use the space because we asked nicely and did a free yearly clean-up / repaint of their grounds, fences, etc.
Oh, I wasn't necessarily saying that it was. My experience had just been that since it was organized by some dad in the parish, the St. Somebody's troop tended to be kids from St. Somebody's School or St. Somebody's Church.
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Re: BSA Moves closer to Gay Equality, Far Right go bonkers.

Post by Ahriman238 »

We met in a Congregationalist basement, I think maybe a third the Troop went there.
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