[United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

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Murazor
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[United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by Murazor »

Daily Telegraph link
The plans would free the courts from Treasure control, placing court buildings and thousands of staff in the hands of private companies.
The system would be funded by extracting larger fees from wealthy litigants and private sector investment, and by encouraging hedge funds to invest by an attractive rate of return, according to The Times.
Fears that privatisation would erode the independence of the courts would be allayed by placing the courts under a Royal Charter, as has been proposed for the regulation of the press.
Earlier this year Justice Secretary Chris Grayling paved the way for reform by instructing officials to explore plans and ensure that the Courts and Tribunal Service provides value for money.
Mr Grayling, who is thought to be in strongly in favour of the reforms, will be presented with a paper outlining the options within two weeks, and the changes could begin this autumn.
The changes range from transferring the running and maintenance of court buildings to a private company to more radical proposals such as transferring the 20,000 courts staff into the private sector.
Judges and magistrates would not be affected by the plans.
The former Lord Chancellor, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, opposed the proposals.
He told The Times: “I am all in favour of making more money from commercial court users, and I am also all in favour of those who commit crime making a bigger contribution to the courts.
“What I am not in favour of is privatising the courts. The courts should not be beholden to any private provider because the courts have to be independent of every interest.
“In particular I would be strongly against court buildings being placed in the hands of private providers. We should not have [them] influencing when courts open and close their doors or judges having to negotiate with private contractors over whether, for instance, a court can be open on a Saturday for an emergency injunction.”

And, no, keeping judges and magistrates out of it does not make this at all a good idea.
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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by bobalot »

What's hilarious is that it's quite possible that state-owned companies from Europe would become the owners.
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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by energiewende »

Judges and juries are the ones who make the decisions, so this is not privatisation in the anarchist sense. It is combination of tax increase ("fees" for "users") and debt increase (companies bid large sums of money today in exchange for charging the government more for on-going operation of courts).

Practically everything that has been "privatised" since the 1990s has been of this sort. Government takes a service that cost, say, £100m/year, sells "franchise" for £1bn, and pays "franchise owner" say £150m/year to operate the service. There is no meaningful market force involved here since government still determines service to be delivered, pays for it with tax, and franchise can never go bankrupt and disappear (only change owner), and total costs rise. However governments only care about less than 5 years to the next election and in that time sale of the franchise easily overweighs any higher running costs, and this money is not accounted for as public debt which in reality it is.

This is how one arrives at the absurd situation of the Royal Navy "renting" warships from their builders.
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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by Irbis »

I wonder how many more times scam "privatize non-profit essential service, limiting it due to it now costing far more because of need to generate profits, ending up with state paying the profit right to private pocket and/or nationalizing service again, paying hefty premium" can be run and when finally the voters will wise up to this.

Oh, wait, things ending like this weren't surprise to anyone who voted for City-owned idiots from Tory party. It's sad, really, how no one bothers to envisage consequences of their "protest" vote.
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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by Simon_Jester »

energiewende wrote:Judges and juries are the ones who make the decisions, so this is not privatisation in the anarchist sense. It is combination of tax increase ("fees" for "users") and debt increase (companies bid large sums of money today in exchange for charging the government more for on-going operation of courts).

Practically everything that has been "privatised" since the 1990s has been of this sort. Government takes a service that cost, say, £100m/year, sells "franchise" for £1bn, and pays "franchise owner" say £150m/year to operate the service. There is no meaningful market force involved here since government still determines service to be delivered, pays for it with tax, and franchise can never go bankrupt and disappear (only change owner), and total costs rise. However governments only care about less than 5 years to the next election and in that time sale of the franchise easily overweighs any higher running costs, and this money is not accounted for as public debt which in reality it is.

This is how one arrives at the absurd situation of the Royal Navy "renting" warships from their builders.
It seems to me like a perverse sort of... inverted tax farming, if you will- the idea that the state should be required to pay a fee for an essential state service rather than doing it themselves, because theoretically a private organization would be able to do this "more efficiently."

The problem is that most of the services modern Western governments have left to privatize are the ones that are inherently unprofitable but still absolutely, obviously vital to having a functioning society. Nations cannot exist without courts, roads, police, armies, tax collectors, and so on- it just isn't going to work. But with the exception of tax collection none of these things operate under ANY guarantee of profit; that's why the state bothers to collect taxes in the first place.

You can privatize an oil refinery or a steel mill or a newspaper and have it work; you probably shouldn't privatize operations of a court system.
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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by Sinewmire »

You know it's a bad day when your own government's ideas cannot be distinguished from satire.
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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by energiewende »

Theyre not privatising the operations. This is literally just off-the-books debt. Same as PFI/Private Finance Initiative which was started by Major but massively expanded under Labour.

Of course every government has an incentive to give benefits now and make future electorates pay for them, but I don't know why parties that supposedly favour free markets and fiscal conservativism like these policies. One would think they would oppose the increase in government debt.
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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by Simon_Jester »

Because the reality is that most such parties are heavily entwined with existing business interests. They are not tools by which the enlightened master economists can optimize the economy and streamline away all those pesky interventions. They are large, powerful engines of rent-seeking. The operations which get "privatized" (i.e. outsourced to the private sector) become textbook examples of how to become a successful rentier.

Even in a system that is reforming its way out of a complete command economy, this kind of process will occur in short order- look at what happened in Russia; the economic infrastructure of the Soviet state was very quickly divided up among a modest number of oligarchs.
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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by energiewende »

Then why not advocate borrowing money in the usual way and spending it on infrastructure projects? This is also bung to businesses who will build the infrastructure but this is seen as a left wing policies. They are really the same policy.

It seems to me that both left and right identify more with the presence of "business" (left thinks they are irrationally bad, right thinks they are irrationally good) than with the actual institutional changes that results.
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Re: [United Kingdom] Courts may be privatised?

Post by Simon_Jester »

energiewende wrote:Then why not advocate borrowing money in the usual way and spending it on infrastructure projects? This is also bung to businesses who will build the infrastructure but this is seen as a left wing policies. They are really the same policy.
Because the infrastructure money is a "spend-once," and the most direct benefits usually go to those filthy ingrate poor people. Or are inconvenient (i.e. tearing up streets to replace century-old water mains).
It seems to me that both left and right identify more with the presence of "business" (left thinks they are irrationally bad, right thinks they are irrationally good) than with the actual institutional changes that results.
For certain definitions of "the left," this is probably true.

I think part of the problem is that in the process of affirming the capitalist order during the Cold war, we left ourselves open to having self-congratulatory idiots set policy. Without a competing economic system, global capitalism has become complacent, and its advocates on the right have become equally so. Irresponsible government and tolerance for corruption were predictable consequences.
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