Penn & Teller do Creationism

LordShaithis · Post by **LordShaithis** » 2003-03-14 02:56am

Having pummeled mediums and Feng Shuei, the lovely and brilliant show "Penn & Teller: Bullshit!" will now be targeting creationism. Friday, 11:30pm, Showtime.

Superman · Post by **Superman** » 2003-03-14 02:58am

YES! YES! Go Penn and Teller! I saw them in Vegas and they are awesome.

I really love it how these guys are carrying on the tradition of Houdini and James Randi. Go P & T!

Wicked Pilot · Post by **Wicked Pilot** » 2003-03-14 02:12pm

Why can't I have Showtime? I gladly trade the five or six religious channels I get just for that one Showtime channel.

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-14 02:26pm

Their show should be on sindication so those of us who do not have cable or satellites could see it,but i`m sure most network are owned by fundies.

[/b]

Sriad · Post by **Sriad** » 2003-03-14 05:16pm

Give it a week or two and you'll be able to steal it on Kaazaa or somewhere similar, I'm sure.

Edit: and I second the ass-kickyness of P&T. Or third, eighth, whatever.

Joe · Post by **Joe** » 2003-03-14 05:26pm

Is there some way to request a cable company to remove the Christian bullshit networks from your cable package? I would very much like to not have to look at it while changing channels.

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-14 05:27pm

You could probably call and ask them.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-14 07:31pm

Maybe you'll get a deduction from your cable bill if you have them removed. Those religious channels have to be worth at least 50 cents a pop.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-03-14 07:49pm

Who exactly are Penn and Teller?

Darth Garden Gnome · Post by **Darth Garden Gnome** » 2003-03-14 07:52pm

Gandalf wrote:Who exactly are Penn and Teller?

By day, a pair of straigh tup good 'ol fashioned magicicans. But by night, they don the mighty sword of intellect, and the shield of knowledge, and become warriors of logic!

You can see them on Showtime: Penn and Teller Bullshit! is on at a tiem someone said above. They debunk such shit as creationism, Nostradamus' prophecies, ect. Excellent show, would do good anyone to wacth it.

Post by **Gandalf** » 2003-03-14 08:12pm

Darth Garden Gnome wrote:
Gandalf wrote:Who exactly are Penn and Teller?
By day, a pair of straigh tup good 'ol fashioned magicicans. But by night, they don the mighty sword of intellect, and the shield of knowledge, and become warriors of logic!

You can see them on Showtime: Penn and Teller Bullshit! is on at a tiem someone said above. They debunk such shit as creationism, Nostradamus' prophecies, ect. Excellent show, would do good anyone to wacth it.

I live in Australia, so I don't get Showtime. I'll just wait a few weeks and get it on WinMX.

Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi · Post by **Asst. Asst. Lt. Cmdr. Smi** » 2003-03-14 10:05pm

I don't have cable because my parents can't afford it (They're not willing to take out a small fraction of their disposable income each month to pay for cable). There's only about 6 cable channels I'm interested in watching, the rest of it can go if it means I save money.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-14 11:02pm

ive only seen 2 minutes of it and DAMN its good!

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-14 11:26pm

Hah! Raelians brought into the discussion! This is so great!!!

I vote we teach how Brahma created to world a billian years ago. BRAHMA BRAHMA BRAHMA!!!

wait, er, Ptah created the world.. PTAH PTAH PTAH!!

uhm, no no it was Kaos! no i mean The August Man! I mean er..!!!

::gigglefits::

Durandal · Post by **Durandal** » 2003-03-15 12:32am

I wasn't too impressed with their debunking. Sure, you can only fit so much into a half hour, but they spent way too much time showcasing creationist idiocy rather than blasting the arguments they made. They also spent too much time on the separation of church and state issue. A better show would have been something along the lines of, "Okay, you wanna pretend you're a science? Let's see how you measure up," and going on to systematically destroy creationist claims like they did with the thing about the Grand Canyon (that was a new one; I'd never heard it before).

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-15 12:43am

They could have also attacked the most longstanding and widespread creationist argument: "it doesn't count if you didn't observe it directly."

It's possible to attack that through dry logic, but when you have a TV show and some humourous front-men, you could do a lot more. For example, a mock trial:

WITNESS: Officer Peterson recovered the weapon at the crime scene. The suspect's fingerprints are on the gun, the ballistics match the bullet found lodged in the victim's body, and the victim's body was found in the trunk of the suspect's car when we stopped him for a broken taillight.

DEFENSE LAWYER: Ahhh, but you didn't actually see the suspect fire the gun, did you?

WITNESS: Well no, but-

DEFENSE LAWYER: So in essence, you have no direct observation, hence no evidence!

WITNESS: What? We have fingerprints, ballistics, and a body!

DEFENSE LAWYER: None of which is direct observation. You did not actually SEE the bullet hit the victim's body, did you? And what about the holes in your theory? Can you explain the oddly contorted position the victim was in? Can you explain the unusually large amount of cash found on his body?

WITNESS: Well no, but how does that change the fact that the suspect was driving around with a dead body, and his fingerprints are on the-

DEFENSE LAWYER: So you admit that you cannot explain all of the facts! And yet you expect us to accept this theory of yours?

Note that this is precisely the same logic used by creationists to deny evolution on the sole basis that we cannot go back in time and directly watch it happening over large timescales, not to mention their habit of blasting you with hordes of "explain this" attacks for every conceivable phenomenon in the universe and then claiming victory if you can't pull an answer for every one of them off the top of your head.

Of course, I'm not the showman that those guys are, but a short skit like this with a parallel version involving a scientist and a creationist "lawyer" would have been helpful. Attacking specific points is one thing, but there's this huge problem with their basic mentality which is unaddressed by most people.

kojikun · Post by **kojikun** » 2003-03-15 01:28am

oh sure, but cmon, its like the first time on national telly that someone not only puts down but RIPS on creationists

Sir Sirius · Post by **Sir Sirius** » 2003-03-15 06:25am

Darth Wong wrote:WITNESS: Officer Peterson recovered the weapon at the crime scene. The suspect's fingerprints are on the gun, the ballistics match the bullet found lodged in the victim's body, and the victim's body was found in the trunk of the suspect's car when we stopped him for a broken taillight.

DEFENSE LAWYER: Ahhh, but you didn't actually see the suspect fire the gun, did you?

WITNESS: Well no, but-

DEFENSE LAWYER: So in essence, you have no direct observation, hence no evidence!

WITNESS: What? We have fingerprints, ballistics, and a body!

DEFENSE LAWYER: None of which is direct observation. You did not actually SEE the bullet hit the victim's body, did you? And what about the holes in your theory? Can you explain the oddly contorted position the victim was in? Can you explain the unusually large amount of cash found on his body?

WITNESS: Well no, but how does that change the fact that the suspect was driving around with a dead body, and his fingerprints are on the-

DEFENSE LAWYER: So you admit that you cannot explain all of the facts! And yet you expect us to accept this theory of yours?

Copy <opens Word> & paste, save as "Wongjoke".
I'm going to keep that, it might be usefull the next time I debate a fundie.

Oh, and if anyone knows where I might download that Penn&Teller episode let me know.

Post by **fgalkin** » 2003-03-16 08:58pm

Now, that the show has aired, the show's message boards are being overwhelmed by fundies. http://showtime.infopop.net/1/OpenTopic ... 4481991426

Anyone cares to join the fun?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

Spyder · Post by **Spyder** » 2003-03-16 09:11pm

fgalkin wrote:Now, that the show has aired, the show's message boards are being overwhelmed by fundies. http://showtime.infopop.net/1/OpenTopic ... 4481991426

Anyone cares to join the fun?

Have a very nice day.
-fgalkin

JOY!

*Runs off to fuel the fire.*

[edit]

ARSE!

"We at Showtime Online express our apologies; however, these pages are intended for access only from within the United States."

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-16 09:15pm

Bwahaha! Free Americana!

-leaps into the Showtime forums swinging a sword and a torch-

Strafe · Post by **Strafe** » 2003-03-16 09:48pm

Penn said creationists were idiots, and he certainly picked and chose his video edits to support this. Only the most inflammatory evidence "against" creation was shown, and even the comments of those in favor of creation were heavily edited. Dr. Duane Gish is an old man, in his 80s, and old men speak with halting words. Dr. Gish has been debating evolutionists for 30+ years in a public forum, and every single debate he has WON! That's because the evolutionists have no evidence to present, they quickly revert to name-calling, insulting language, and dismissing the whole debate as inappropriate and stupid. They HAVE to resort to this bullshit, because they have NO real evidence to present. Meanwhile, Dr. Gish and the usual creation defender has facts, reason, logic, and an abundance of interpretation to offer.

Wow.

http://showtime.infopop.net/1/OpenTopic ... 2271963526

Montcalm · Post by **Montcalm** » 2003-03-16 09:54pm

Creationists and logic can`t mix, just like politician and honesty.

HemlockGrey · Post by **HemlockGrey** » 2003-03-16 09:59pm

I'm TheBlackCy. I don't think I'll participate much; not much else I can say that hasn't been said.

Post by **Darth Wong** » 2003-03-16 09:59pm

Strafe wrote:Penn said creationists were idiots, and he certainly picked and chose his video edits to support this. Only the most inflammatory evidence "against" creation was shown, and even the comments of those in favor of creation were heavily edited. Dr. Duane Gish is an old man, in his 80s, and old men speak with halting words. Dr. Gish has been debating evolutionists for 30+ years in a public forum, and every single debate he has WON!

Must be nice to be able to simply self-declare victory.

That's because the evolutionists have no evidence to present, they quickly revert to name-calling, insulting language, and dismissing the whole debate as inappropriate and stupid. They HAVE to resort to this bullshit, because they have NO real evidence to present. Meanwhile, Dr. Gish and the usual creation defender has facts, reason, logic, and an abundance of interpretation to offer.

Why do you even bother reading their tripe? They simply lie until they're blue in the face, and there's nothing you can do to shut them up because lying is not considered an unreasonable debate tactic in fundie-land.