Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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A bill that stigmatizes Russia's gay community and bans the distribution of information about homosexuality to children was overwhelmingly approved by the lower house of parliament Tuesday.

More than two dozen protesters were attacked by anti-gay activists and then detained by police, hours before the State Duma approved the Kremlin-backed legislation in a 436-0 vote.

The bill banning "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations" still needs to be passed by the appointed upper house and signed into law by President Vladimir Putin, but neither step is in doubt.

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The measure is part of an effort to promote traditional Russian values as opposed to Western liberalism, which the Kremlin and the Russian Orthodox Church see as corrupting Russian youth and contributing to the protests against Putin's rule.

The only parliament member to abstain Tuesday was Ilya Ponomaryov, who has supported the protest movement to the aggravation of the leadership of his pro-Kremlin party.

Before the vote, gay rights activists attempted to hold a "kissing rally" outside the State Duma, located across the street from Red Square in central Moscow, but they were attacked by hundreds of Orthodox Christian activists and members of pro-Kremlin youth groups. The mostly burly young men with closely cropped hair pelted them with eggs while shouting obscenities and homophobic slurs.

Riot police moved in, detaining more than two dozen protesters, almost all of them gay rights activists. Some who were not detained were beaten by masked men on a central street about a mile away.

The legislation will impose hefty fines for providing information about the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender, or LGBT, community to minors or holding gay pride rallies. Breaching the law will carry a fine of up to 5,000 rubles ($156) for an individual and up to 1 million rubles ($31,000) for media organizations.

After the bill was given preliminary approval in January, lawmakers changed the wording of "homosexual propaganda" to "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations," which backers of the bill defined as "relations not conducive to procreation."

Russia decriminalized homosexuality in 1993, but anti-gay sentiment remains high. Russia also is considering banning citizens of countries that allow same-sex marriage from adopting Russian children.

Earlier Tuesday, dozens of anti-gay activists picketed the Duma. One of them held a poster that read: "Lawmakers, protect the people from perverts!" while others held Orthodox icons and chanted prayers.

Russian and foreign rights activists have decried the bill as violating basic rights.

"Russia is trying very hard to make discrimination look respectable by calling it `tradition,' but whatever term is used in the bill, it remains discrimination and a violation of the basic human rights of LGBT people," Graeme Reid, LGBT rights program director at Human Rights Watch, said Tuesday in a statement.

Russian officials have rejected the criticism. Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov defended the bill in February, saying that Russia does not have any international or European commitment to "allow propaganda of homosexuality."

The widespread hostility to homosexuality is shared by much of Russia's political and religious elite.

Lawmakers have accused gays of decreasing Russia's already low birth rates and said they should be barred from government jobs, undergo forced medical treatment or be exiled.

An executive with a government-run television network said in a nationally televised talk show that gays should be prohibited from donating blood, sperm and organs for transplants, while after their death their hearts should be burned or buried.

The bill's adoption comes 20 years after a Stalinist-era law punishing homosexuality with up to five years in prison was removed from Russia's penal code as part of the democratic reforms that followed the Soviet Union's collapse.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by Eulogy »

I know that this is Russia and all, but how do they plan to enforce this law, exactly?
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by Zixinus »

They are probably getting political support and future votes in whenever the next election comes around (if that even matters anymore) just by passing the law. They will be enforced whenever the police want to arrest a gay person for whatever reason.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by fgalkin »

Eulogy wrote:I know that this is Russia and all, but how do they plan to enforce this law, exactly?
By censoring any positive portrayal of homosexuality in the media, raiding gay rights groups and imprisoning activists, while having gay rights rallies viciously beaten by skinhead thugs and riot police.

In other words, the same way they have been fighting against Putin's enemies for the last decade.

Have a very nice day.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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With their advanced Internet monitoring capabilities that they use on harmless people instead of cybercriminals...
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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Lawmakers have accused gays of decreasing Russia's already low birth rates and said they should be barred from government jobs, undergo forced medical treatment or be exiled.
So... these politicians are on record as being in favour of date rape? That is what they mean by forced medical treatment to make people "consent" to heterosexual sex, right?
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by loomer »

Grumman wrote:
Lawmakers have accused gays of decreasing Russia's already low birth rates and said they should be barred from government jobs, undergo forced medical treatment or be exiled.
So... these politicians are on record as being in favour of date rape? That is what they mean by forced medical treatment to make people "consent" to heterosexual sex, right?
Not even close. Conversion therapy, more likely.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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I think Grumman's point is that brainwashing someone into consenting to sex they otherwise wouldn't consent to is rape.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by K. A. Pital »

The Putinist-clerical reaction shows its ugly face again.

Not just that; "offending the feelings of religious believers" is now punishable with three years of jail.

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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

Country matters, Stas Bush. Even Shakespeare wasn't above them.

Hey Russia, good going, soon you'll need another Peter the Great. No, not the general modernization stuff, I really mean a 1700s ruler to reteach you how you build a twodecker. And what the hell does Russia need more people for, Putin feels Siberia is underpopulated? Regressive fucks, spreading your fucking diseases over Europe.

Fucking punks. Oh, the past was great! Oh, the golden days! Are you motherfuckers gonna live without your TV and your ass paper? Because whenever cunts talk about the past being great, what they actually mean is: the past sucks so horribly, it's great for people we dislike.

Here I go, talking about cunts like Stas. And Shakespeare.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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Stas Bush wrote:Not just that; "offending the feelings of religious believers" is now punishable with three years of jail.

Welcome to Russia - 1913! For God, King and cunt... cuntry.
1913? How about Germany, 2013, Strafgesetzbuch:
§ 166 Defamation of religious denominations, religious societies and World view associations
(1) Whoever publicly or by dissemination of writings (§ 11 par. 3) defames, in a manner suitable to disturb the public peace, the substance of the religious or world view conviction of others, shall be fined or imprisoned for up to three years.
(2) Whoever publicly or by dissemination of writings (§ 11 par. 3) defames, in a manner suitable to disturb the public peace, a church established in Germany or other religious society or world view association, or their institutions or customs, shall be punished likewise.
Maybe Putin is trying to catch up to EU one law at a time? :P

My IMHO, stated repeatedly on this forum, is that every single pro-religious law is BS that should be instantly repealed, and only the backwards countries really adopt them. In case of Russia, the problem is different, though, Putin isn't liked by young, pro-western progressive city dwellers, so to try and prop up his regime he needs to energize his right-wing and rural supporters he still has. Russia is still far and wide atheist country, this law is more needed as a scalpel to target everyone criticizing alliance of Church and Throne, and as yet another grant to priests.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by madd0ct0r »

ahhh. I'll miss TATU.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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Irbis wrote:
§ 166 Defamation of religious denominations, religious societies and World view associations
(1) Whoever publicly or by dissemination of writings (§ 11 par. 3) defames, in a manner suitable to disturb the public peace, the substance of the religious or world view conviction of others, shall be fined or imprisoned for up to three years.
(2) Whoever publicly or by dissemination of writings (§ 11 par. 3) defames, in a manner suitable to disturb the public peace, a church established in Germany or other religious society or world view association, or their institutions or customs, shall be punished likewise.
You'll note a little "in a manner suitable to disturb the public peace."
You can take that phrase pretty literal - something that would cause the public to become non-peaceful (=violent). In other words, agitation against a group (and there are similar laws for any kind of such disturbance, not just against the church) is a punishable offense - as it should be, because inciting people to violence is bad for the same reasons that being violent yourself is.
And no, these laws are not interpreted broadly - you have to fulfill pretty specific criteria, just saying something bad about a group doesn't count.

I could hold a sign that says "there is no god" or "religion is a lie" in a german street all week long without violating these laws.
The same isn't true for the russian law.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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Dr. Trainwreck wrote: And what the hell does Russia need more people for, Putin feels Siberia is underpopulated?
It's a common nationalist standpoint, more kids means more cannon fodder in 20 years to safeguard our holy fatherland against the evil communist/liberal/brown/yellow/white/green/muslim/christian/atheist/jewish/muslim/martian hordes on our doorstep. It also is a way of keeping women "in their place".

Of course they plan on doing this by making gay people born in Russia want to leave for other saner places, if not kicking them out. This seems a bit self defeating. Then again, expecting logic to over-ride hatred is expecting way to much out of these morons.

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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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Serafina wrote:You'll note a little "in a manner suitable to disturb the public peace."
You can take that phrase pretty literal - something that would cause the public to become non-peaceful (=violent). In other words, agitation against a group (and there are similar laws for any kind of such disturbance, not just against the church) is a punishable offense - as it should be, because inciting people to violence is bad for the same reasons that being violent yourself is.
And no, these laws are not interpreted broadly - you have to fulfill pretty specific criteria, just saying something bad about a group doesn't count.

I could hold a sign that says "there is no god" or "religion is a lie" in a german street all week long without violating these laws.
The same isn't true for the russian law.
What is the difference there? Let's look at wording from the article: "public activities expressing clear disrespect to society and carried out with the aim of insulting the religious feelings of believers". Both deal with the same, 'public insult' to religious feelings. What constitutes 'manner suitable' can be left to very wide interpretation, as in the case of German judge declaring insulting Islam will penalized much more harshly in a case as Muslim rioted last week and therefore are extra sensitive: "the significance of what you did became far greater through the world political situation". Both do exactly the same, gag free speech to the point of censoring movies and books, and allow religious nuts to stomp on things they don't like. After all, they got that religious nut visibly agitated, so they disturbed public peace by definition, no?

And another thing, I found two references to CDU/CSU more conservative members trying to delete 'public peace' from the law recently, to make it exactly identical to Russian law. So, they're not identical only because they didn't grabbed enough power yet. 2013, indeed.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by Serafina »

Weee, someone didn't read my post! And then makes up stuff to boot!
Oh, and your source is flat-out false in regard to your post - it talks about a bishop, not about CDU-members!

The russian law: Hurting religious peoples feelings is a crime
The german law: Inciting public violence, including against religions, is a crime

And of course you can't show how the german law is actually used to censor people. Media report about church scandals, including child molestation, and are openly critical about it. Other faiths, septics, atheists, LGBT-activists can all operate freely in public.

I can insult the church all day long in Germany. I might get into trouble if i insult specific people in the process (but that'd also apply if they were non-religious), and i would get into trouble if i call for violence along with the insults. I fail to see how the latter is wrong.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by General Mung Beans »

Stas Bush wrote:The Putinist-clerical reaction shows its ugly face again.

Not just that; "offending the feelings of religious believers" is now punishable with three years of jail.

Welcome to Russia - 1913! For God, King and cunt... cuntry.
The USSR after Stalin took power had far stronger laws against homosexuality and considering the vote in the Duma was unanimous except for one absentation, the Communists must have solidly voted for the law along with the Putinists.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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Dr. Trainwreck wrote:And what the hell does Russia need more people for, Putin feels Siberia is underpopulated?
Look at the population of Russia since 1991. It's gone down by a few million and has only recently begun to climb again, partly thanks to immigration. Some may see this as an issue.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by mr friendly guy »

Gandalf wrote:
Dr. Trainwreck wrote:And what the hell does Russia need more people for, Putin feels Siberia is underpopulated?
Look at the population of Russia since 1991. It's gone down by a few million and has only recently begun to climb again, partly thanks to immigration. Some may see this as an issue.
Not to mention claims that Russia is afraid of losing control of its far East to China (practically if not nominally) have been circulating in media for years now. Russia wants more population, whether they will get it is another matter.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by Dr. Trainwreck »

Gandalf wrote:Look at the population of Russia since 1991. It's gone down by a few million and has only recently begun to climb again, partly thanks to immigration. Some may see this as an issue.
I know of European demographic problems. Of course, a sane person's reaction would have been to just look at the numbers going back up, but then you wouldn't have the unique DNA or distinct culture or national traditions or whatever it is that idiots are bleating about.
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

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mr friendly guy wrote:Not to mention claims that Russia is afraid of losing control of its far East to China (practically if not nominally) have been circulating in media for years now. Russia wants more population, whether they will get it is another matter.
I can't help but be reminded of Peter Costello's "one for mum, one for dad, and one for Australia" line a few years ago.

I wonder if Russia has a baby bonus?
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Re: Homophobic Laws passed in Russia.

Post by K. A. Pital »

General Mung Beans wrote:The USSR after Stalin took power had far stronger laws against homosexuality and considering the vote in the Duma was unanimous except for one absentation, the Communists must have solidly voted for the law along with the Putinists.
"Communists"? Come on. These guys in Putin's Duma are anything but Communists. They are fully supporting the clerical onslaught on everything from education to human rights, they go to Church and consider Orthodoxy "a true Russian religion", et cetera. Just fascists wrapped in a red flag, like many of Russia's stalinists. And the anti-homosexual laws in the 1930s were nothing but an abomination.
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