Leaked: Info on US Data Collection Programs

[Mr Bean]

So Snowden is going to Russia to travel to Cuba where he will be getting on a plane for his final destination of Venezuela.

I mean minus a stop in Iran and North Korea that managed to hit most of our top ten dislike list. And more importantly it's three of the five countries that if you ever visit in your civilian life pretty much bar you from getting a clearance when you join the military.

[Flagg]

He's certainly making it easy for people who consider him a traitor. I don't, but many do.

[Elfdart]

He's certainly making it easy for people who consider him a traitor. I don't, but many do.

And those people are fucktards, so why do you care what they think?

[Mr Bean]

He's certainly making it easy for people who consider him a traitor. I don't, but many do.

And those people are fucktards, so why do you care what they think?

Because they are elected members of Congress, major members of the American media establishment and our current President?

[Flagg]

He's certainly making it easy for people who consider him a traitor. I don't, but many do.

And those people are fucktards, so why do you care what they think?

Because they are elected members of Congress, major members of the American media establishment and our current President?

This, basically. They had me snowed.

[cosmicalstorm]

So what. Even if he voluntarily locked himself into a ten square foot box with a bucket to shit in like Bradley Manning he would still be considered a traitor. The countries in question are his only possibility of not spending the rest of his life in a 24/7 lit up maximum security prison cell. Hopefully he is famous enough not to die in any freak accidents.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I'm just really pulling for Snowden to escape to somewhere and show the US is not the totalitarian ruler of the world. The only person I really want to evade the so-called "justice" in this country more is Assata Shakur. I really do think that his escape will prove a psychological blow to our growing surveillance apparatus in the sense that it will no longer appear to act with total impunity and will embolden opposition to it.

And Flagg's just baiting people like me who think Snowden is a hero but Manning should be shot. The problem of course is that Snowden may well damage the US now -- but his intent in the first leaks was clearly to save the country from totalitarianism. Manning just wanted to hurt our war effort and aid our enemies.

[Flagg]

I'm just really pulling for Snowden to escape to somewhere and show the US is not the totalitarian ruler of the world. The only person I really want to evade the so-called "justice" in this country more is Assata Shakur. I really do think that his escape will prove a psychological blow to our growing surveillance apparatus in the sense that it will no longer appear to act with total impunity and will embolden opposition to it.

And Flagg's just baiting people like me who think Snowden is a hero but Manning should be shot. The problem of course is that Snowden may well damage the US now -- but his intent in the first leaks was clearly to save the country from totalitarianism. Manning just wanted to hurt our war effort and aid our enemies.

I know you're insane and insane people don't respond to reason, but I don't post thinking about how you will react. If I did you'd be very poor and the NRA would be much richer.

[The Duchess of Zeon]

I know you're insane and insane people don't respond to reason, but I don't post thinking about how you will react. If I did you'd be very poor and the NRA would be much richer.

Shit, thanks for implying I could actually significantly impact the NRA's budget with my money. I wish I was that rich.

[Thanas]

Behave, you two.

[Metahive]

Snowden may damage the US now? I'm sorry, but that would fall squarely upon the people who want to turn the US into Airstrip One in the first place I'd say.

[Simon_Jester]

There's proximate causes, and there's ultimate causes. The proximate cause and ultimate cause of the same problem can be totally different actions by different people.

You know this perfectly well.

[Metahive]

I know perfectly well that you like to listen to yourself a lot even when you don't actually have a lot to say. Whatever "damage" Snowden can do to the US is all caused by the appauling behaviour of his former employer who not only want the total surveillance state but also react with petulant temper tantrums towards those who blow the lid on their schemes. If the ruling US cabal wasn't trying to turn the country into Airstrip One there would have been no reason for there to be a whistleblower and if the ruling US cabal didn't have a known track record of incarcerating and torturing those who tattle on them and their totalitarian schemes he'd have no reason to run away to foreign countries.

You were saying?

[The Duchess of Zeon]

The simple fact of the matter is that anyone in American who supports freedom needs to support Snowden, regardless of politics or ideology. We need the left and Ron Paul to be perfectly united and of one voice on this, and aggressive and unwilling to shut up, and Obama and Senate Republicans like Graham need to be endless punished and heckled about it.

[K. A. Pital]

Snowden can damage the public image of the US, and that is already damaged, but the damage is necessary to prevent global surveillance.

Come on, how can the international reputation of the US and its intelligence services be more important than this?

[Simon_Jester]

...Wait, didn't she just say it wasn't more important?

I'm just really pulling for Snowden to escape to somewhere and show the US is not the totalitarian ruler of the world... I really do think that his escape will prove a psychological blow to our growing surveillance apparatus in the sense that it will no longer appear to act with total impunity and will embolden opposition to it.

And Flagg's just baiting people like me who think Snowden is a hero but Manning should be shot. The problem of course is that Snowden may well damage the US now -- but his intent in the first leaks was clearly to save the country from totalitarianism. Manning just wanted to hurt our war effort and aid our enemies.

[Flagg]

So according to numerous media reports the Chinese made the final decision on letting Snowden flee Hon Kong. And there were reports on Morning Joe that the Chinese had access to his laptops.

[Thanas]

So what?

[Flagg]

So what?

It's news?

[Metahive]

So what you ask? Because everybody knows the Chinese are evil, bad people who do evil, bad things with the crucial, vital and top secret information that Snowden had undoubtedly stored on his notebook. Next thing you know they'll use all the command codes they cribbed from Snowden to start a sneaky invasion of the US. Haven't you ever watched that famous documentary on the evilness of foreign people...what was it called again...a right, Call of Duty Modern Warfare.

On a more serious note, I simply would not trust anything the gleichgeschalteten US media report on the issue. They've long sold their jounalistic integrity away for a dime on eBay and are now busy toeing the party line which is that Snowden is a vile traitor no matter what.

[Mr Bean]

Next thing you know they'll use all the command codes they cribbed from Snowden to start a sneaky invasion of the US. Haven't you ever watched that famous documentary on the evilness of foreign people...what was it called again...a right, Call of Duty Modern Warfare.

No Metahive those are villainous ultra-nationalist Russians who are secret Super Soviets all along. In fact video games these days go out of their way to portray everyone except the Chinese as the big villains of the piece. Hell the last time we've been invaded in video game form was MW2 (Russians) and Homeland (North Koreans).

Look Metahive we've spent fifty years making villains out of the Germans, then the Russians, then we had a brief fling with the Chinese but honestly it meant nothing to us. We had eyes only for the Soviets with maybe a little bit of Vietnamese action on the side. And we've spent fourteen years now building up the threat of "Terrorists" and that's been so handy to label pretty much everything with we've not needed to dig the Chinese back up.

I mean I know if we all got together we could hate and fear them. But we both know it would be a hollow relationship, they just can't make us afraid like the Soviets could.

[Patroklos]

When Snowden leaked a very specific set of data linked solely to a specific program he found morally objectionable to Americans he was a whisleblower. This is in direct contrast to Manning who released random data he had no idea about to a foriegn entity. Snowden running does take a bit of the moral authroity out of his actions but I honestly can't blame him given the kill the messager approach the government has taken.

When/if Snowden releases any other data he presumable has to another government not because he has moral issues about what it pertains to but rather to secure his own safety and he does this with a foriegn government he becomes a traiter in my eyes.

[Thanas]

This logic is funny. "We forced him to flee for fear of getting tortured or thrown away in the name of secrecy so screw him if he has to make some deals to save himself from the situation we put him in."

[Broomstick]

So according to numerous media reports the Chinese made the final decision on letting Snowden flee Hon Kong. And there were reports on Morning Joe that the Chinese had access to his laptops.

So what?

So the Chinese would almost certainly look at or copy all the data on those laptops in hopes of finding something they can use to their advantage. Which action I'd expect from any government, really, and there's nothing "evil" about it. Of course, unless the US has complete knowledge of what is on those laptops/hard drives/whatever the US will be concerned that there will be things that, if someone else learns about them, will be to their disadvantage. Just the normal back-and-forth international intrigue. This will get some people over-excited for various reasons, as usual.

[Broomstick]

This logic is funny. "We forced him to flee for fear of getting tortured or thrown away in the name of secrecy so screw him if he has to make some deals to save himself from the situation we put him in."

^ I agree that this is retarded doublethink. I don't get people who seem to think whistleblowers are supposed to sacrifice themselves and take no action to protect their own interests.

I suspect Snowden, who strikes me as pretty smart, has some sort of plan and final destination in mind, but meanwhile he'll happily do everything within his power to cut a deal and/or throw his pursuers off his trail.

I do have a concern that when he does find asylum some sort of skullduggery will occur to eliminate him. For all the protests of being moral and law-abiding the US government is not above going outside the law, as has been demonstrated in the past. If the current group in charge want to silence him badly enough, or make an example of him, they will do everything they can to achieve that goal.