NSA spied on EU

[SomeDude]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 08590.html

America's NSA intelligence service allegedly targeted the European Union with its spying activities. According to SPIEGEL information, the US placed bugs in the EU representation in Washington and infiltrated its computer network. Cyber attacks were also perpetrated against Brussels in New York and Washington.

Information obtained by SPIEGEL shows that America's National Security Agency (NSA) not only conducted online surveillance of European citizens, but also appears to have specifically targeted buildings housing European Union institutions. The information appears in secret documents obtained by whistleblower Edward Snowden that SPIEGEL has in part seen. A "top secret" 2010 document describes how the secret service attacked the EU's diplomatic representation in Washington.

The document suggests that in addition to installing bugs in the building in downtown Washington, DC, the EU representation's computer network was also infiltrated. In this way, the Americans were able to access discussions in EU rooms as well as emails and internal documents on computers.
The attacks on EU institutions show yet another level in the broad scope of the NSA's spying activities. For weeks now, new details about Prism and other surveillance programs have been emerging that had been compiled by whistleblower Snowden. Details have also emerged that the British intelligence service GCHQ operates a similar program under the name Tempora with which global telephone and Internet connections are monitored.

The documents SPIEGEL has seen indicate that the EU representation to the United Nations was attacked in a manner similar to the way surveillance was conducted against its offices in Washington. An NSU document dated September 2010 explicitly names the Europeans as a "location target"

The documents also indicate the US intelligence service was responsible for an electronic eavesdropping operation in Brussels. A little over five years ago, EU security experts noticed several telephone calls that were apparently targeting the remote maintenance system in the Justus Lipsius Building where the EU Council of Ministers and the European Council is located. The calls were made to numbers that were very close to the one used for the remote administration of the building's telephone system.

Security officials managed to track the calls to NATO headquarters in the Brussels suburb of Evere. A precise analysis showed that the attacks on the telecommunications system had originated from a building complex separated from the rest of the NATO headquarters that is used by NSA experts.

A review of the remote maintenance system showed that it had been called and reached several times from precisely that NATO complex. Every EU member state has rooms in the Justus Lipsius Building that can be used by EU ministers. They also have telephone and Internet connections at their disposal.

[Thanas]

Typical for the USA.

[Simon_Jester]

No surprise, this.

I think what it comes down to is that the American security establishment makes very little distinction between "enemy" and "ally," except insofar as an "ally" means "someone who does as they are told."

Certainly this makes a farce of claims that all the surveillance is there to keep Americans safe from terrorism...

[thejester]

Are you fucking serious? This is what the NSA is supposed to do. Spy on other nations to gain the US an advantage. Where exactly is the cause for outrage?

[Zaune]

Are you fucking serious? This is what the NSA is supposed to do. Spy on other nations to gain the US an advantage. Where exactly is the cause for outrage?

The part where several of the nations allegedly targeted by the NSA sent soldiers to fight and die alongside yours in Iraq, and I think I'm justified in suggesting that the very least they deserve by way of fucking gratitude is not bugging their official communications!

[TimothyC]

The part where several of the nations allegedly targeted by the NSA sent soldiers to fight and die alongside yours in Iraq, and I think I'm justified in suggesting that the very least they deserve by way of fucking gratitude is not bugging their official communications!

Do you honestly not think that everyone is trying to spy on everyone else to gain an upper hand in every field of international relations?

Are you really that naive?

[Thanas]

Are you fucking serious? This is what the NSA is supposed to do. Spy on other nations to gain the US an advantage. Where exactly is the cause for outrage?

Maybe the scope of the whole program. Other than that, nothing that the USA has not done before.

[The Romulan Republic]

For that matter, spying on other nations, even friendly nations, isn't just something the US does.

This may not be nice, but it's nothing new.

[Block]

Are you fucking serious? This is what the NSA is supposed to do. Spy on other nations to gain the US an advantage. Where exactly is the cause for outrage?

Maybe the scope of the whole program. Other than that, nothing that the USA has not done before.

Literally every nation in NATO attempts to spy on the others. This is nothing new for ANYONE. Cry about it.

[Highlord Laan]

Typical for the USA.

And for Germany. And France. And Russia. And Israel. And England. And any other nation on earth with an intelligence agency. But I suppose that since the USA does it too, than we must be evil.

Are you fucking serious? This is what the NSA is supposed to do. Spy on other nations to gain the US an advantage. Where exactly is the cause for outrage?

The part where several of the nations allegedly targeted by the NSA sent soldiers to fight and die alongside yours in Iraq, and I think I'm justified in suggesting that the very least they deserve by way of fucking gratitude is not bugging their official communications!

Please tell me you're not actually that naive.

[DesertFly]

To be honest, this doesn't surprise me in the least. I don't necessarily share their viewpoint, but it is easy to see how thinking "everyone else is a potential threat, therefore we must keep tabs on as much of what everyone else is doing as we can" makes a certain kind of sense. I have no data, but I honestly expect everyone else, from the USA's old allies: Britain, Israel, France, to old enemies: Germany, Russia, Japan, is being spied on and is spying on us in return, to the best capabilities of all involved parties.

[FTeik]

Considering, that much of this spy-business is justified with the "war on terror" I can understand, where some of the outrage comes from, because by targeting the EU, the USA places them next to terrorists. Not that I have much sympathy for some of those politicians, since they couldn't be bothered when it were their ordinary citicens being spied on.

On the other side, we don't hear about this from EU-countries like Germany, France or Spain.

So either their intelligence-agencies are much better at keeping secrets (including keeping the media and politicians of their target-countries silent when leaks appear) OR they don't do this stuff (most likely, because they CAN'T for technical or budgetary reasons).

[Metahive]

So the only defense that people can muster for this is "others do it too!"? I shouldn't be surprised since the US applies the same mindset to things like torture and murder as well, "others do it too!". Good thing the nation that justifies all the privilege it demands from the rest of the world for its, uh, "Universal White Knight" status sets the bars for its own standards on Kindergarten level. I mean, they'd otherwise have to expend some sort of real effort to earn that status and we can't have that, can we?

[SomeDude]

Considering, that much of this spy-business is justified with the "war on terror" I can understand, where some of the outrage comes from, because by targeting the EU, the USA places them next to terrorists. Not that I have much sympathy for some of those politicians, since they couldn't be bothered when it were their ordinary citicens being spied on.

Actually, they are: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/opini ... .html?_r=0

Here we go again: Another violation of the basic right to privacy. Another public outcry. Another blow to citizens’ trust in the security of their personal data. Yet more evidence that something fundamental has to change if we want to stop citizens from worrying about somebody watching every time they visit a Web site or write an e-mail.

The Prism scheme allows the national security agencies of the United States to access E.U. citizens’ personal data. While the scale of the program is not yet entirely clear, Europeans are being put at a severe disadvantage compared with U.S. citizens. Through Prism, American national security authorities are able to survey E.U. citizens in a way that would likely be unconstitutional if applied to U.S. nationals. What is more, E.U. citizens are not even given a chance to use American courts to attain any kind of remedy or recourse.

This is a wake-up call for all those who have been blocking the European Commission’s reform of Europe’s data protection rules — ignoring just how much consumers worry about attacks on their right to privacy. The vast majority of citizens have long suspected that their data held by companies could be used — or abused — without them knowing about it.

This lack of trust is highly damaging to citizens’ faith in the rule of law. It is also damaging to economic growth, as vast swaths of our economy depend on citizens entrusting business with their data. Those who ignore people’s concerns are putting a lot more at stake than they probably realize.

The European Commission has answered such concerns. Europe is one of the few places in the world that already has strong data protection rules, dating from 1995. And we have proposed to reform the E.U.’s data protection rules to make them even stronger — and to set clear rules for the flow of data beyond Europe. The reform, adopted by the commission in January 2012, still needs to be adopted by member states sitting on the council and by the European Parliament to become law. Only if we enact this reform will citizens regain their trust in the way their personal data is handled.

People must be given greater control over their data, with a reinforced right to be forgotten and a right to data portability. People need to know that staying silent is not the same as giving consent to have your data processed. And they need a guarantee that when their privacy has been violated, they are not the last ones to find out about it, via leaks in the media.

The Prism scandal caused a storm in Europe because it hit a raw nerve. Europeans care about their privacy. They want rules that can help prevent violations of their rights by companies or law enforcement agencies from Europe and beyond.

The tools to enable us to deal with this kind of scenario are contained in the European Commission’s proposal. It’s time that governments as well as members of the European Parliament show their commitment to protecting citizens’ data. It’s time they start working with the commission in a sober, constructive way to make sure the proposals are adopted swiftly.

The E.U.’s draft law contains four key building blocks for a system of strong data protection.

The first one is a clear provision on the territory where the rules apply. It has to be made certain that companies from outside Europe abide by E.U. data protection laws when they offer and sell products and services to consumers in the Union. If you want to play in our backyard, you have to play by our rules.

Secondly, we need a broad definition of personal data. This should include not just the content of e-mails and phone calls, for example, but related traffic data as well, such as information on where something was sent from or how long somebody spent talking on the phone.

Thirdly, we must not limit the rules to those companies that collect citizens’ data. Rather, we have to include processors of those data as well — such as cloud providers — because, as the Prism scandal shows, they also present an avenue for those who want to access data. The E.U. needs specific rules on the obligations and liability of those processors.

And finally we must have safeguards against the unfettered international transfer of data. The rules must ensure that E.U. citizens’ data are transferred to non-European law enforcement authorities only in situations that are well defined, exceptional and subject to judicial review.

The Prism scandal has sparked a debate about civil liberties in general and privacy in particular. Politicians in Europe and beyond should show that they have listened. Trust is something that is earned, not given. The E.U.’s data protection reform is the right tool to earn citizens’ trust. It is within our reach. It is time to act.

Viviane Reding is vice president of the European Commission and the E.U. justice commissioner.

[SomeDude]

And to everyone who just dismissed the outrage because this is 'normal': imagine if EU countries bugged the Oval Office and hacked into the White House e-mail network. Would you be outraged or not?

[TimothyC]

And to everyone who just dismissed the outrage because this is 'normal': imagine if EU countries bugged the Oval Office and hacked into the White House e-mail network. Would you be outraged or not?

I'd be pissed at my own government that the EU was able to pull it off, and probably pushing for a "How did you let this happen?" investigation/

[thejester]

Are you fucking serious? This is what the NSA is supposed to do. Spy on other nations to gain the US an advantage. Where exactly is the cause for outrage?

The part where several of the nations allegedly targeted by the NSA sent soldiers to fight and die alongside yours in Iraq, and I think I'm justified in suggesting that the very least they deserve by way of fucking gratitude is not bugging their official communications!

The EU as an organisation certainly didn't, and in any case, who cares? Some South Korean officials were recently caught making some pretty hamfisted efforts to recruit spies within the Australian delegation negotiating a new free trade agreement. Presumably because there has not been a South Korean Edward Snowden, this revelation resulted in a few 'how embarrassing' articles in the Australian press and not 'BRAVE ANZACS FOUGHT AND DIED FOR KOREA WHAT A SLUR ON OUR NATIONAL HONOR'.

[K. A. Pital]

Germany and other EU nations should start a campaign to expel American forces from Europe. Later they should leave the NATO command as France once did.

Then the US will know that actions have consequences, and all that.

But not gonna happen. Europe is essentially an American-occupied territory where U.S. forces are staying to ensure something-something (save them against the red/uh-rab/immigrant menace?).

[Siege]

Describing an EU containing a scattered handful of American military bases as "essentially an American-occupied territory" is a bit much, don't you think?

If there are any consequences to this next in a long line of revelations about how the American government doesn't give a damn about European privacy rights (and let's face it, why should it? It doesn't seem to particularly care about the rights of its own citizens either, so to expect it to respect those of foreigners is silly) it'll be along the lines of the EU withdrawing from information sharing and joint intelligence agreements, or throwing up other barries to the transfer of data.

I also expect the Commission to use this incident as well as the revelations about PRISM and how the US taps hundreds of millions of German phone calls a month, etc. as a stick to get the member states to adopt its data protection directive overhaul. It certainly does wonders to undermine the FTC's earlier statements (made in April I think) about how the USA takes privacy protection super seriously and there's no reason for Europe to worry. Congratulations on further undermining your own credibility, I guess?

[Atlan]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 08590.html

-SNIP-

The only offense the NSA committed here was the capital one in espionage: Do Not Get Caught.

Everybody knows the other guy is doing it. Any politician claiming otherwise is either so naive as to not belong in politics, or lying (Lying. They're lying.). But now people are making a fuss about it, because the dirty little secret of international relations is out on the street, for everybody to see, and you get to score points with this with your electorate. That, and it's kinda fun to rag on the USA after they've been so hardassed about China's hacking attempts.

[Broomstick]

And to everyone who just dismissed the outrage because this is 'normal': imagine if EU countries bugged the Oval Office and hacked into the White House e-mail network. Would you be outraged or not?

I actually expect nations to spy on each other. It's been going on since forever. I wouldn't be at all surprised and I expect such attempts are made on a regular basis. I'd be disappointed that our side wasn't more effective in keeping our secrets.

This sort of thing is also why codes are still used when sending messages, and some communications are still done on paper rather than hackable e-format or buggable phone lines.

Seriously, people don't realize that nations spy on each other routinely? Even allies spy on each other, and always have.

[Broomstick]

If there are any consequences to this next in a long line of revelations about how the American government doesn't give a damn about European privacy rights (and let's face it, why should it? It doesn't seem to particularly care about the rights of its own citizens either, so to expect it to respect those of foreigners is silly) it'll be along the lines of the EU withdrawing from information sharing and joint intelligence agreements, or throwing up other barries to the transfer of data.

From the American viewpoint, the requirement of many European nations that you register your address with the government, that you have limited time in which to do so when you move, that a government can force you to name your child from an approved list of names, and that some countries like the UK have wall-to-wall surveillance cameras shows an appalling disregard for citizen privacy rights.

Personally, I think the entire world needs to get better with protecting information in e-formats, from e-mail to electronic fiscal transactions to identity theft. Of course, that would make it harder for the various governments to spy on each other and their own citizens so I expect them to either say the current safeguards are sufficient or even push back. (Yes, 9/11 and the "war on terror" has given the US government an excuse to do just that, I just don't think they're unique in this regard.)

I also expect the Commission to use this incident as well as the revelations about PRISM and how the US taps hundreds of millions of German phone calls a month, etc. as a stick to get the member states to adopt its data protection directive overhaul.

Which side effect I approve of.

It certainly does wonders to undermine the FTC's earlier statements (made in April I think) about how the USA takes privacy protection super seriously and there's no reason for Europe to worry. Congratulations on further undermining your own credibility, I guess?

Sure... the US takes privacy seriously to the extent they don't want anyone to have spying capability EXCEPT the US government.

[FTeik]

Considering, that much of this spy-business is justified with the "war on terror" I can understand, where some of the outrage comes from, because by targeting the EU, the USA places them next to terrorists. Not that I have much sympathy for some of those politicians, since they couldn't be bothered when it were their ordinary citicens being spied on.

Actually, they are: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/opini ... .html?_r=0

Here we go again: Another violation of the basic right to privacy. Another public outcry. Another blow to citizens’ trust in the security of their personal data. Yet more evidence that something fundamental has to change if we want to stop citizens from worrying about somebody watching every time they visit a Web site or write an e-mail.

The Prism scheme allows the national security agencies of the United States to access E.U. citizens’ personal data. While the scale of the program is not yet entirely clear, Europeans are being put at a severe disadvantage compared with U.S. citizens. Through Prism, American national security authorities are able to survey E.U. citizens in a way that would likely be unconstitutional if applied to U.S. nationals. What is more, E.U. citizens are not even given a chance to use American courts to attain any kind of remedy or recourse.

This is a wake-up call for all those who have been blocking the European Commission’s reform of Europe’s data protection rules — ignoring just how much consumers worry about attacks on their right to privacy. The vast majority of citizens have long suspected that their data held by companies could be used — or abused — without them knowing about it.

This lack of trust is highly damaging to citizens’ faith in the rule of law. It is also damaging to economic growth, as vast swaths of our economy depend on citizens entrusting business with their data. Those who ignore people’s concerns are putting a lot more at stake than they probably realize.

The European Commission has answered such concerns. Europe is one of the few places in the world that already has strong data protection rules, dating from 1995. And we have proposed to reform the E.U.’s data protection rules to make them even stronger — and to set clear rules for the flow of data beyond Europe. The reform, adopted by the commission in January 2012, still needs to be adopted by member states sitting on the council and by the European Parliament to become law. Only if we enact this reform will citizens regain their trust in the way their personal data is handled.

People must be given greater control over their data, with a reinforced right to be forgotten and a right to data portability. People need to know that staying silent is not the same as giving consent to have your data processed. And they need a guarantee that when their privacy has been violated, they are not the last ones to find out about it, via leaks in the media.

The Prism scandal caused a storm in Europe because it hit a raw nerve. Europeans care about their privacy. They want rules that can help prevent violations of their rights by companies or law enforcement agencies from Europe and beyond.

The tools to enable us to deal with this kind of scenario are contained in the European Commission’s proposal. It’s time that governments as well as members of the European Parliament show their commitment to protecting citizens’ data. It’s time they start working with the commission in a sober, constructive way to make sure the proposals are adopted swiftly.

The E.U.’s draft law contains four key building blocks for a system of strong data protection.

The first one is a clear provision on the territory where the rules apply. It has to be made certain that companies from outside Europe abide by E.U. data protection laws when they offer and sell products and services to consumers in the Union. If you want to play in our backyard, you have to play by our rules.

Secondly, we need a broad definition of personal data. This should include not just the content of e-mails and phone calls, for example, but related traffic data as well, such as information on where something was sent from or how long somebody spent talking on the phone.

Thirdly, we must not limit the rules to those companies that collect citizens’ data. Rather, we have to include processors of those data as well — such as cloud providers — because, as the Prism scandal shows, they also present an avenue for those who want to access data. The E.U. needs specific rules on the obligations and liability of those processors.

And finally we must have safeguards against the unfettered international transfer of data. The rules must ensure that E.U. citizens’ data are transferred to non-European law enforcement authorities only in situations that are well defined, exceptional and subject to judicial review.

The Prism scandal has sparked a debate about civil liberties in general and privacy in particular. Politicians in Europe and beyond should show that they have listened. Trust is something that is earned, not given. The E.U.’s data protection reform is the right tool to earn citizens’ trust. It is within our reach. It is time to act.

Viviane Reding is vice president of the European Commission and the E.U. justice commissioner.

Actually I hadn't PRISM in mind, but the onesided hand-over of travelling and banking-data the EU has supplied Uncle Sam with since at least 2008.

[Terralthra]

And to everyone who just dismissed the outrage because this is 'normal': imagine if EU countries bugged the Oval Office and hacked into the White House e-mail network. Would you be outraged or not?

I'd actually be shocked if most of them hadn't tried, at least once, to bug the White House and/or infiltrate the White House or DoD networks.

[Flagg]

And to everyone who just dismissed the outrage because this is 'normal': imagine if EU countries bugged the Oval Office and hacked into the White House e-mail network. Would you be outraged or not?

I'd be outraged if they were able to not outraged at them for trying. This may come as a huge shock to you, but countries, even allies, spy on each other. Always have, always will.